Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[chara]

@Mark Kelly....yes.....most,if not all, views have been consistent.....but no one convinced. The Pro camp solidly he needs time but not leading a parade of confidence and the Anti camp more distrustfully doubtful.

Watched the Forest/Leeds rubbish (imho) and Citeh looking more like Chelsea than the real Citeh.

I don't see either of the first game teams looking any better football wise or any change in the coaching philosophy albeit heavily influenced by a survival battle.....Pep is proven and things will change there..(the Cancelo Affair seems to have deeper nuances),,GP for me as things are stands with the other two coaches...

A scenario as a doomsday not one I really believe will unfold but the margins are very tight.Should Chelsea slip any more then I'm not sure I have any confidence in GP raising enough spirit to survive other than by the skin etc.

 

[thevelourfog]

23 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

This is the kind of post that does worry me , I consider you one of the most level leaded posters here , you don't get hysterical like some , you're measured and considered , if this is how you feel and you've been consistent , it's a worry .

The way I see it, he wasn't brought here to bring immediate results. That isn't why you sack someone like Tuchel and bring in someone like Potter. It should be exceedingly obvious to everyone by now that Tuchel was wringing the most out of the players he possibly could. He was brought in because the owners wanted a fundamental overhaul of how we do things, and I'd assume player recruitment and development was key in that given that, not results, is what Potter had built a reputation on. That, along with tactical versatility, being able to instill almost an total football-style capacity for adaptation into his players.

So our results worry me, because they are dreadful. And there are lots of mitigating reasons. I don't think results would have been great in the same circumstances under Tuchel, or anyone else. But I do think they are worse than they should be, even considering those reasons. But the way we are playing, the utter cluelessness in every phase of play, worries me much, much more. I just am not seeing any indication that players are being coached, or at least successfully coached. It's not like we're seeing a style or approach that is distinct but just not taking or working well, we're seeing absolutely nothing. No rehearsed moves or runs, no passing triangles, no drilled set pieces. And I get that we had the World Cup, and Potter has had limited extended periods with the players. But surely you'd see some of these things from just a few sessions?

I'm not saying sack him tomorrow, to he clear. I'm just saying I am not seeing even the thing Potter is known to be good at, and giving time feels a big risk to me.

[chara]

@thevelourfoganother excellent summing up.

Look back at THAT goal....brilliant move from start to finish...football at it's most illuminating....Mendy to Chilly Mount Havertz,,,,,

For reasons we all know those players are playing nowhere near that level at this time even taking into account injuries (Chilly a pass but same affect).

Why?.....surely a top coach would have sorted that out in the time GP has had..?

Not resolved every issue but at least shown some influence where it matters.

Too much to ask?

[Holymoly]

Over the life of the Premier League, during which we have been the most successful club in the country, there have been very few teams capable of winning it. For the last 20 years or so we've been one of the big 4 and in that time anything less than the title (or the Champions League) has meant a disappointing season. The big 4 has since now grown to the big 7 and the remaining teams have also become much more competitive. The opportunities for that success accordingly dilute season by season. When you've been following Chelsea as long as I have, experiencing the peaks and troughs, the highs and the lows, maybe you become more relaxed and accepting of perceived underperformance knowing that there is another season to look forward to. We've probably now lived through our team's most successful period and now we have to come to the realisation that "successful" seasons will be fewer and further between (for all clubs) but hopefully when they do happen they will be all the sweeter for it.

The last time we were looking at missing out on the CL we went and won the bloody thing. Let's hope lightning  will strike twice. But if it doesn't then I hope we end up in the Conference, go places we've never been before, and win it making us the only club to have won every trophy. We've got a lot to look forward to, hopefully in a new stadium. The owners change as do the players and coaching staff but we, the supporters, remain. We are the mighty CFC.

[chara]

@Holymoly Thanks for that.... could see you were typing and wondered why it was taking so long and was waiting with some anticipation to see the post!

Times change Turn Turn Turn indeed and the length of time following Chelsea does give a different view of things..a veteran 25 year fan will have a slightly different view of things than us OG, and close to, followers!

I am convinced that the new Leadership is determined to lead Chelsea to greater success and we OG's are witnessing a rebirth rather than the blip it may appear to be to 25 year "newbies"!

 

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

The way I see it, he wasn't brought here to bring immediate results. That isn't why you sack someone like Tuchel and bring in someone like Potter. It should be exceedingly obvious to everyone by now that Tuchel was wringing the most out of the players he possibly could. He was brought in because the owners wanted a fundamental overhaul of how we do things, and I'd assume player recruitment and development was key in that given that, not results, is what Potter had built a reputation on. That, along with tactical versatility, being able to instill almost an total football-style capacity for adaptation into his players.

So our results worry me, because they are dreadful. And there are lots of mitigating reasons. I don't think results would have been great in the same circumstances under Tuchel, or anyone else. But I do think they are worse than they should be, even considering those reasons. But the way we are playing, the utter cluelessness in every phase of play, worries me much, much more. I just am not seeing any indication that players are being coached, or at least successfully coached. It's not like we're seeing a style or approach that is distinct but just not taking or working well, we're seeing absolutely nothing. No rehearsed moves or runs, no passing triangles, no drilled set pieces. And I get that we had the World Cup, and Potter has had limited extended periods with the players. But surely you'd see some of these things from just a few sessions?

I'm not saying sack him tomorrow, to he clear. I'm just saying I am not seeing even the thing Potter is known to be good at, and giving time feels a big risk to me.

Bang on the mark really. 

The part about not seeing any coaching is what gets me also. I watched the Everton vs Arsenal game and you could see the impact Dyche made on the side from a coaching perspective in such a short span of time since replacing Lampard. He set the team up in a specific manner and that was then reflected on the pitch in how they played. He's been there a whole 7 or so days. Potter's been here for months and I'm still a none the wiser in how he wants us to play, or what fundamental impact he's making as a manager to propel us forward. There is no blueprint being seen for what type of footballing team we want to be. 

Like you, I'm not saying we sack Potter tomorrow either. Instead I want to see more from Potter to clarify why he should be considered the man for the job. There has to be a hint of something to indicate he's the right fit. Whether it's tactically, through improving players via coaching, or whatever else. Right now it's difficult to find a single area which Potter has come in raised the standard in. That's a worry.

 

[kev61]

31 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Bang on the mark really. 

The part about not seeing any coaching is what gets me also. I watched the Everton vs Arsenal game and you could see the impact Dyche made on the side from a coaching perspective in such a short span of time since replacing Lampard. He set the team up in a specific manner and that was then reflected on the pitch in how they played. He's been there a whole 7 or so days. Potter's been here for months and I'm still a none the wiser in how he wants us to play, or what fundamental impact he's making as a manager to propel us forward. There is no blueprint being seen for what type of footballing team we want to be. 

Like you, I'm not saying we sack Potter tomorrow either. Instead I want to see more from Potter to clarify why he should be considered the man for the job. There has to be a hint of something to indicate he's the right fit. Whether it's tactically, through improving players via coaching, or whatever else. Right now it's difficult to find a single area which Potter has come in raised the standard in. That's a worry.

 

To say Dyche made a difference in just seven days is  nonsense,just like creationists  believe the world was created six thousand years ago.

Everton (maybe) had the new manager syndrome and nothing more.

There are so many variables in Potter's tenure so far(injuries,deadwood,new ownership)to make a definitive judgement on him.

As I said before I don't think he will make it,not because I think he is a bad coach(too early to tell until he has a level playing field to choose from)but because he has no personality that will get the rich elite play for him.

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

To say Dyche made a difference in just seven days is  nonsense,just like creationists  believe the world was created six thousand years ago.

Everton (maybe) had the new manager syndrome and nothing more.

There are so many variables in Potter's tenure so far(injuries,deadwood,new ownership)to make a definitive judgement on him.

As I said before I don't think he will make it,not because I think he is a bad coach(too early to tell until he has a level playing field to choose from)but because he has no personality that will get the rich elite play for him.

A little bit of research will showcase otherwise. In the time Dyche has stepped into the club he's implemented several changes to help set a precedent - not limited to banning hats and snoods from training, along with getting his players to wear shin pads. These things may seem minor but it can help create a mentality and mindset first and foremost. To then couple that with the adjustments he's made tactically and in playing style from Lampard, it's already reaped rewards. Now, it's obviously still early days but it's the action of being proactive as a manager that provides encouragement. 

No one has argued that Potter hasn't had obstacles to navigate since he arrived, we're all well aware and are taking this into account. However, it's not some golden ticket to a free pass either when it comes to the areas of coaching that he still has control over to impact.

Do you have any idea of the football direction Potter wants to lead us towards based on what we've seen thus far? 

For a manager that was spoken about as someone that improved players, how many have improved under his management thus far? (Excluding Kepa because GK's train separately with their own set of coaches)

I'll repeat again, I'm not asking for Potter to be shown the door. He does however need to show WHY he is the right man for the job. 

[Michael Tucker]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

No one has argued that Potter hasn't had obstacles to navigate since he arrived, we're all well aware and are taking this into account. However, it's not some golden ticket to a free pass either when it comes to the areas of coaching that he still has control over to impact.

This.

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Do you have any idea of the football direction Potter wants to lead us towards based on what we've seen thus far? 

None what so ever. And unfortunately, I don't think he does either.

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

For a manager that was spoken about as someone that improved players, how many have improved under his management thus far? (Excluding Kepa because GK's train separately with their own set of coaches)

None that I can see.

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I'll repeat again, I'm not asking for Potter to be shown the door. He does however need to show WHY he is the right man for the job. 

Again - This.

[chara]

MT..echo from me..as you say...This.

[kev61]

44 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

A little bit of research will showcase otherwise. In the time Dyche has stepped into the club he's implemented several changes to help set a precedent - not limited to banning hats and snoods from training, along with getting his players to wear shin pads. These things may seem minor but it can help create a mentality and mindset first and foremost. To then couple that with the adjustments he's made tactically and in playing style from Lampard, it's already reaped rewards. Now, it's obviously still early days but it's the action of being proactive as a manager that provides encouragement. 

No one has argued that Potter hasn't had obstacles to navigate since he arrived, we're all well aware and are taking this into account. However, it's not some golden ticket to a free pass either when it comes to the areas of coaching that he still has control over to impact.

Do you have any idea of the football direction Potter wants to lead us towards based on what we've seen thus far? 

For a manager that was spoken about as someone that improved players, how many have improved under his management thus far? (Excluding Kepa because GK's train separately with their own set of coaches)

I'll repeat again, I'm not asking for Potter to be shown the door. He does however need to show WHY he is the right man for the job. 

Oh ffs I despair at posts that mean nothing.I'm tempted to say I'm out but I will stay just to challenge the know alls.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

Oh ffs I despair at posts that mean nothing.I'm tempted to say I'm out but I will stay just to challenge the know alls.

The utter irony. 😂

[Holymoly]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

In the time Dyche has stepped into the club he's implemented several changes to help set a precedent

Not looking to have a go at you here but would you rather have Dyche as manager? I agree with you that he seems the type of manager that will have banged a few heads together at Everton and the weekend saw the result. That only gets you so far though and by the end of the month he will have them playing like Burnley, pragmatic. Potter has so many other options available to him with the players he has to hand. The task he has is working out the one that fits the optimum number of players at his disposal. We knew Potter wasn't a blood and thunder coach yet let's not forget the bounce factor he got from the players when he started. Good test coming up at the weekend then it's the real meat and potatoes at Dortmund.

[xceleryx]

4 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Not looking to have a go at you here but would you rather have Dyche as manager? I agree with you that he seems the type of manager that will have banged a few heads together at Everton and the weekend saw the result. That only gets you so far though and by the end of the month he will have them playing like Burnley, pragmatic. Potter has so many other options available to him with the players he has to hand. The task he has is working out the one that fits the optimum number of players at his disposal. We knew Potter wasn't a blood and thunder coach yet let's not forget the bounce factor he got from the players when he started. Good test coming up at the weekend then it's the real meat and potatoes at Dortmund.

It's actually an interesting question you pose. I've listened to Dyche talk quite a bit in interviews since he left Burnley and he comes across as someone that would like to expand upon what he's showcased thus far but also understands the environment he's been in and it's needs. It would be interesting to see how he'd go if even a bit more freedom to spend, as I do think he did extremely well at Burnley all things considered.

To provide a bit more of an answer to your question though, I suppose it would depend on what our situation is at that particular junction. I'd probably be more open to taking Dyche as manager in our current predicament over Potter for example, as I think he'd do a better job of creating a more hard nosed mentality and dig in for results. Neither would be my choice if we were in say a Real Madrid or Man City like position however. 

End of the day I don't think Potter is a bad manager but as per my original reservations when hiring him, I also don't believe he's the man for the job of getting us back competing at the pointy end of things either. He'll have time which is understandable, and next season will be the one where he should be judged more, but I'd like to see more from him now in the aspects he can influence. 

[FrankLampard8]

1 hour ago, Holymoly said:

Not looking to have a go at you here but would you rather have Dyche as manager? 

Horses for courses no? I don't think Everton could have got a better manager for their current predicament and playing staff. I certainly don't think they'd be more likely to stay up with Potter. However, the calibre of players and expectations at Chelsea wouldn't work with Dyche's personality and brand of football. 

[ROTG]

29 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

However, the calibre of players and expectations at Chelsea wouldn't work with Dyche's personality and brand of football. 

Is it working with Potter & Reid?

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Potter has so many other options available to him with the players he has to hand. The task he has is working out the one that fits the optimum number of players at his disposal.

Disagree

Top coaches do not take prisoners or passengers. Whereas the current coach has no idea how to be ruthless with ziyech being a classic example. There is no way the likes of Pep, Klopp, Conte, Arteta would have brought Ziyech back into the fold after the transfer day c**k up regardless of who's fault it was.

[xceleryx]

Pep could be available if he walks after the recent Man City news. 

[Miguelito07]

59 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Is it working with Potter & Reid?

No. It clearly isnt. There isnt anything remotely positive on our play since he joined.

[Mark Kelly]

For a change I managed to see quite a lot of Premier League football at the weekend , one thing I did notice , and it's possibly because of the way our games are refereed differently to everyone else is how much Arsenal , Spurs , Fulham, City, Newcastle ,  game the system in comparison to our players.

They are set up to tactically foul , collectively on rotation whenever a side breaks against them , someone will make a pull back on the halfway line and stop play , take a card and the next time it happens a different player will do the same and the referees oblige every time. 

Next , should you legitimately beat them to the ball they will realise and roll around in faux agony on the floor , holding their heads etc to hold up play and stop you .

They question every throw in , every corner , every free kick and surround the ref , their coach will jump around on the side-lines like they are being electrocuted , gesticulating frantically.

Go near them and they fall over , in the case of Fulham , screaming to alert the referees attention.

We do practically none of this , added to this our lack of preparation on set pieces added to the above  makes us frighteningly easy to play against .

Everything we do in response looks braindead and desperate 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Bob Singleton]

54 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Pep could be available if he walks after the recent Man City news. 

In what seems like a long, long time ago now, it was suggested that Pep wasn't interested in the Chelsea job because he felt something like 10/11 players needed to be replaced... I wonder if 17 is enough to change his mind? 😉 🤣

[Trini_Blue]

Reports of the club looking at Luis Enrique. Wouldn't be against that one bit.

Good coach with a distinct style of play and a winner. I remember when he stood up to Messi after taking over at Barcelona. He certainly seems like a strong personality as well.

[Bison]

 

Maybe we should also hire some tactical coaches to do the hard work on the training ground.

I guess Potter can be the face of this operation if he wants to.

[chara]

Looking at the table and the head coach at each side I got to wondering where I would place GP on a table of coaches.

Given say Pep as #1 (not an argument just as a starter) and the last sacked coach at the bottom about where would you place GP?.

 

[Box of Tricks]

12 minutes ago, chara said:

Looking at the table and the head coach at each side I got to wondering where I would place GP on a table of coaches.

Given say Pep as #1 (not an argument just as a starter) and the last sacked coach at the bottom about where would you place GP?.

 

Below Brendan Rodgers.