Spain 2 England 1

[My Blood Is Blue]

Please use this thread for all posts relating to England's Final match against Spain at Olympiastadion in Berlin, before, during and after the game.

The match is scheduled to kick off at 20:00 hours on Sunday, 14th July 2024 (Local UK time/date) (Live on BBC1 & ITV1)

[Mark Kelly]

Considering what has happened on the way it's incredible we're actually in the final. 

Maybe Southgate is playing 4D chess afterall?

For possibly the first time in the tournament we are not the favourites to win and so supposedly the pressure will now be off . 

Imagine winning . 

Arise Sir Gareth ! 

[Sciatika]

Can I recommend adequate provision of Jet Packs to all the players?

[chara]

Hmm..the old (silly) theory of group of monkeys typing for long enough will produce Shakespeare comes to mind...not quite such a stretch but any group of top Pro footballers will get it right somewhere along the line and whilst I don't think the present England Squad is as good as some in the past they are all Top Pro's regardless of our personal views on individual players and what we have seen up until the semi was not a good reflection of the actual talent available.

With the rare exception most games across the tournament have been "disappointing" and ,for me, such passages in the regular season we endure seeking results first and knowing there are a lot of games to be played but in a showcase competition framework watching the top European players has been a real let down with,again, a few notable exceptions and moments.

Sir G from Jester to Senior Statesman in 90 minutes?...I don't think so,,,both extremes are a bad, unfair, judge of him and I still see him as the ultimate Jobs Worth England coach.

Lucky ?,,,part of any game but best to take it when you can and swallow on it when it runs against you not use it as an excuse or reason to gloat.

Final?...depends which England and Spain turn up and how much attention the Football Gods have been paying attention up until now!...Payback time for who?

Just OG rambling,,,,

[My Blood Is Blue]

A really tough game this one, Spain are looking very strong and have won all their games in 90 mins, apart from against Germany. They've beaten France, Germany, Italy, Croatia, Albania and Georgia. Compare this to England who have looked poor in almost all matches and only won 2 matches in 90 mins (Netherlands and Serbia), but did manage to beat Slovakia in extra time and drew with Switzerland, Denmark and Slovenia.

That is largely irrelevant now as we have a one-off game,  where form doesn't really matter. Spain will be very difficult to stop though and my fear is that if we go behind, like we have a few times in this tournament, Spain will go for the kill unlike other sides and we may find ourselves a couple down quite quickly and that won't be easy to turn around.

We have the players to win the match, we have a manager who I don't think is good enough for this group of players, but his record is very impressive in international tournament football and he must demand respect for that alone. Lucky draws and lucky results aplenty, but he has one way or another found his way through to another final with England.

[ROTG]

18 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I don't think is good enough for this group of players,

You could say the same about the Spain coach. 
IMO both team have players who play for the coach, which was never the case for the England squad post Venables (RIP) and until Gareth took over. 

 

[Sleeping Dave]

That England are in the final while being perhaps the 7th or 8th best team in the finals is remarkable. At this point in time, the only reason to why England are in the final is because of how the playoff tree developed. 

England has faced one semi-serious opponent so far and the Netherlands and it didn’t look much more convincing than winning against Slovakia or Serbia or drawing against Switzerland, Slovenia or Denmark. 

Should England win tomorrow they’d be the worst euro winners in the history of the competition. I’ll be routing for Spain with all my heart - so far the moral winners of this tournament by a country mile. 

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

That England are in the final while being perhaps the 7th or 8th best team in the finals is remarkable. At this point in time, the only reason to why England are in the final is because of how the playoff tree developed. 

England has faced one semi-serious opponent so far and the Netherlands and it didn’t look much more convincing than winning against Slovakia or Serbia or drawing against Switzerland, Slovenia or Denmark. 

Should England win tomorrow they’d be the worst euro winners in the history of the competition. I’ll be routing for Spain with all my heart - so far the moral winners of this tournament by a country mile. 

That's a shame Dave, I would have been fully behind Sweden myself. 

Except they didn't qualify. 

[Bob Singleton]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

[SNIP]

Should England win tomorrow they’d be the worst euro winners in the history of the competition. I’ll be routing for Spain with all my heart - so far the moral winners of this tournament by a country mile. 

2004

Greece

Ring any bells?  😉 😉 😉

[chara]

1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:

2004

Greece

Ring any bells?  😉 😉 😉

🔔🔔🔔🔔🏺🧆🫓

[Sleeping Dave]

12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

That's a shame Dave, I would have been fully behind Sweden myself. 

Except they didn't qualify. 

I’m not sure I read you correctly? I don’t hate England, I want them to do well. But this England side is the weakest I can remember and they aren’t proving me wrong out on the pitch. 

England hasn’t looked like champions at any stage in this tournament. 

[Sleeping Dave]

8 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

2004

Greece

Ring any bells?  😉 😉 😉

You also have Denmark in 92. Both Greece and Denmark far more worthy winners than what England would be. Greece and Denmark won because they performed far above their abilities  and outperformed their opponents. Tactically their wins were masterclasses. 

England has done neither. They have grossly underperformed seen to the player material they have available and haven’t really outperformed anyone they faced so far (and let’s be honest, they haven’t really played any top sides yet). 

If I was English I’d pray England didn’t win. It would be a far cry from the legend of the WC 66 winners. If Spain wins they will do so with a young team that has finally moved on from the Pep/Barca structure the Spanish NT has suffered from since the mid-2000’s. 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You also have Denmark in 92. Both Greece and Denmark far more worthy winners than what England would be. Greece and Denmark won because they performed far above their abilities  and outperformed their opponents. Tactically their wins were masterclasses. 

England has done neither. They have grossly underperformed seen to the player material they have available and haven’t really outperformed anyone they faced so far (and let’s be honest, they haven’t really played any top sides yet). 

If I was English I’d pray England didn’t win. It would be a far cry from the legend of the WC 66 winners. If Spain wins they will do so with a young team that has finally moved on from the Pep/Barca structure the Spanish NT has suffered from since the mid-2000’s. 

 

Absolute madness! Ultimately if we win it, I couldn't care less how we performed in any of the matches. If we beat this Spain side in the final, who are the best team in the tournament (IMO) then we would be deserved winners of the tournament. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

I think England will win. They should have been out against Slovakia and Switzerland, and on paper they should lose against Spain. So considering how the tournaments gone, England will probably do it. On pens.

[Sciatika]

Generally, I don't really bother much with England games (as said before) but it would be nice to win something if only to be able to point out to the pundits that this team achieved something they never did. Childish, I know.

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Absolute madness! Ultimately if we win it, I couldn't care less how we performed in any of the matches. If we beat this Spain side in the final, who are the best team in the tournament (IMO) then we would be deserved winners of the tournament. 

Sure. I’m not surprised you’d say that. Ask any neutral and I’m 100% certain they would disagree with you. 
 

England has been shit this tournament. Winning one game against Spain won’t change that. If Southgate keep his job, even if they’d manage to win the final, it’s a joke.

Spain on the other hand has beaten Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. In this final, there is only one team that deserves to win the tournament. 

[chara]

Hard line to get right, As an ExPat I follow the usual pattern of being somewhat more Patriotic than when at home!

Of course I want England to win even though with my past 'istory in Spain they would be my favoured choice in a different match up.

But...all apparent "negative" comments are less a negative approach more an acceptance as how "not really good at all' the England selections and performances  have been as a whole.

Maybe too blunt a truth,(or just wrong!) view from an OG but our two guys....love them both to pieces as Chelsea players for all the reasons listed throughout the last season but really..Conor is not a top England player although like many players he can do a job but that is what a Club Pro does...not a top International and Cole is far too young in career/experience terms to be expected to carry England over 90 minutes for multiple close together games.

As shown the media were quick to push Conor then dismiss him and the chorus for Cole is just that ..a chorus setting him up for finger pointing..look at the fickleness with Foden as a good example.

So..realistic thoughts I hope but come on England !...... IF the luck (which you make as much as random blessings) stays with the side and players remember how good they can be a triumph..if not ?

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

4 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Sure. I’m not surprised you’d say that. Ask any neutral and I’m 100% certain they would disagree with you. 
 

England has been shit this tournament. Winning one game against Spain won’t change that. If Southgate keep his job, even if they’d manage to win the final, it’s a joke.

Spain on the other hand has beaten Germany, Croatia, Italy and France. In this final, there is only one team that deserves to win the tournament. 

Of course they would, even England fans would agree that Spain has been the better team in this tournament, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want England to win it! Does the best team in a tournament usually win it? I would guess that no, they don't, because you need luck as much as anything else in tournament football and England have most certainly had that this time around.

Would England be a popular champion throughout Europe if we win it? Probably not, based on our form in the tournament and that, well we're England, but that will make it all the sweeter if we somehow find a way to beat Spain.

I've moaned and criticised this team and manager throughout the tournament, ask anyone that would listen and even some of those who tried not to, but that all goes out the window if we've won it. Will I pause mid-celebration and think "Oh, no, wait, we were crap in that match against Slovakia. Sit down lads, let's call it a night, this is rubbish!", nope not a chance in hell, I'll be dancing in the streets chanting Southgate's name, because I am a football fan and that's just how it is.

[jasonb]

Spain has been the best team though not by a great margin and if we take their goals then there are weaknesses.

Morata is clever in winning free-kicks.

Yamal scores a neat goal though tries it again later and it is well wide. Olmo's last goal that ricocheted in off Kounde and was probably going wide. Olmos move was clever to find space though I am not blown away. 

Rodri is a clever player.

I think we can cause problems though still think Spain edge it.

 

 

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Of course they would, even England fans would agree that Spain has been the better team in this tournament, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want England to win it! Does the best team in a tournament usually win it? I would guess that no, they don't, because you need luck as much as anything else in tournament football and England have most certainly had that this time around.

Would England be a popular champion throughout Europe if we win it? Probably not, based on our form in the tournament and that, well we're England, but that will make it all the sweeter if we somehow find a way to beat Spain.

I've moaned and criticised this team and manager throughout the tournament, ask anyone that would listen and even some of those who tried not to, but that all goes out the window if we've won it. Will I pause mid-celebration and think "Oh, no, wait, we were crap in that match against Slovakia. Sit down lads, let's call it a night, this is rubbish!", nope not a chance in hell, I'll be dancing in the streets chanting Southgate's name, because I am a football fan and that's just how it is.

Haha fair enough. 

Just one minor thing, usually it is one of the best sides who win a WC or Euro. It’s very uncommon that a team that is arguably not even among the top ten sides in the tournament wins it. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

8 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Haha fair enough. 

Just one minor thing, usually it is one of the best sides who win a WC or Euro. It’s very uncommon that a team that is arguably not even among the top ten sides in the tournament wins it. 

That’s probably true (apart from the odd occasion), but whilst England haven’t been great in this tournament, I don’t think they’ve been that much worse than many others because I actually think it’s been a really poor tournament in general, with few sides excelling. France have been as bad if not worse than England.

Off the top of my head, the teams I’d definitely say have been better than England would be Spain and Germany. You can make an argument for others being better in some/one of their matches (eg. Netherlands, Turkey, Switzerland), but when it’s mattered they haven’t found a way to progress further, which somehow England has, through luck, individual brilliance and dogged resilience. It doesn’t have to always be pretty in tournament football, you just have to find a way.

You could argue that others have been more entertaining; Georgia and Austria for example, but entertaining only gets you so far. Overall though I think it’s been a pretty poor tournament and I put it largely down to so many players being knackered. The list of teams that have massively underperformed is bigger than those I’ve listed above: England, France, Italy and Portugal all spring to mind.

All that said, as I think I’ve said elsewhere, the way Southgate sets us up to play is horrible, he sets the team up not to lose, rather than to win. His mentality in games is never to think how he can change it to get a goal, he’s always thinking what he needs to do to ensure the opposition doesn’t score, which is why his subs are always so late or just after we concede. It’s horrible and I dislike it a lot, it has not been fun viewing - it is a losers mentality. This approach (obviously) only works if you go all the way, because then people forget what’s come before and hail you a genius for finding a path through the tournament and lifting the trophy. If, however, we don’t win on Sunday then I do think questions will be raised and people will look back on a really dull summer of football and a manager who has wasted so much good, young talent.

Football is a fickle beast, as are its fans.

[Bob Singleton]

[Ham]

19 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

I'd say parts of Scandinavia and Portugal would be with us..

[Blue Moon]

Belgians were occupied by the Spanish for a while, so there'll be no love lost there ...

[chara]

22 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Belgians were occupied by the Spanish for a while, so there'll be no love lost there ...

Interesting pov's...France has never forgiven England for our Nation's efforts on it's behalf in both World Wars...Germany for '66 and the Hurst goal,the rest of the UK goes without saying! Gibralter might give us a cheer,,(the might because until I actually spent a lot of time there I thought of the Rock as a plucky outpost but reality is slightly different,,or is that politics?) San Marino? Iceland probably,,a lot of the rest probably a bit divided.

I, of course, want an England victory but fear it will mean a continuation of the "Gareth Syndrome" as laid out by @My Blood Is Blue and others.