Thiago97

I touched on this yesterday I think it was. These type markets move at the slightest bit of money, so any price crash of say 20/1 into 4/1 in market like this where inside information is available to some, its literally a handful of £20-£50 bets that a bookie will have taken. Compared to a horse race for example, where a handful of £20-£50 bets will not create a comparable price crash. That's why these type of markets fluctuate massively and have done in the last 3 days. We have seen De Zerbi go short, Mckenna go short, Maresca go short, and now despite still not actually being a short price favourite, we see some money for Mourinho. If bookies were seeing a number of requests for large bets on Mourinho, there is no way he would be available to back right now at anything from 2/1 to 6/1 still available in some places. The price would just be wiped out. The other factor to take into account is the exchanges allow people to lay bets back off at much shorter prices. In the days of social media, its much easier to create enough noise and get other people on board for an appointment after backing them at 40/1.......create a price crash and then trade it all back off at 2/1. Its often basic arbing in these markets, which is why we have seen 4 short priced favourites in 3 days

It's the 4th betting move and price collapse in as many day, so whatever briefings people are hearing to convince them to try enter the market, its pretty clear not all of it is accurate!

Surely a wind up. The complete antithesis of everything that appears to being briefed or reported, with regards to the role.

The mystery 4th name (if it exists) I have in the back of my head could be Marcello Gallardo. I'm only basing this on loosely on a link last summer, and something a friend of mine has said previously. This is not insider info, but I have a friend who has an indirect link to a company that works with a Tony Bloom company (data sports/betting modelling) and he was adamant he had heard that Gallardo was under strong consideration last summer. He has since ended up out in Saudi and no idea how that is going. It could be well wide of the mark, but his name was in the air for a number of high profile jobs last summer.

I would be surprised. I think he is probably viewed as a bit too experienced , which is odd but that seems to be the approach they are taking. He's a funky and snappy dresser along the lines of Pep though, so maybe they are looking at mimicking someone with similar attire and fashion sense to Pep, to see if that is the secret behind his success !

I think the other thing to highlight here is that this set up is not unique in any way. It's different to what we know in England, but its not really that different to what happens on the continent. I suppose the main differences are to what level of input the coach has, in terms of does he have any voice at all. If we believe what was written about Tuchel when he left Chelsea, this seems to be exactly what he wanted and was used to in Germany . I think it just comes down to does the manager have zero input on players, or is he part of a committee and free to make recommendations about players in/out. I would be slightly surprised if any new manager has absolutely zero input on this.

It does make you wonder. He may well be a very good manager, but strip out the period under Pep from his career, its unlikely he gets the Leicester job , and hugely unlikely he gets linked with the Chelsea job. Football is such a funny industry that derives association as some sort of measurement of ability. Bearing in mind we got about £7m-£8m quid of Papy Djilobodji based purely on the fact that he was deemed good enough for Chelsea to sign in the first place! Football really is such a bizarre world.

You could be right. It’s not that I want Frank, it’s just that I would want Frank out of the supposed three front runners!

Maybe. I said that about Potter when he was at Brighton. I was wrong though.

If it really is a choice between McKenna , Maresca and Frank, then I would have to be firmly in the Frank corner of these three. PL experience is huge in my mind. Given the choice of a guy who has managed around 100PL games Vs young coaches who have cut their teeth in the Championship. I can’t say I know much of McKenna or Maresca as managers, but at least we know Frank is a decent operator at PL level.

The thing is you are probably not wrong. Whilst we disagree on the overall points, I don't hugely disagree with the point about the whole lack of coaching/structure point of view. I never have pushed back on this too much, as I think there is very likely something in this. I just also believe that this lighter touch if you like, is exactly what young inexperienced players can benefit from, in their current cycle of development. Where I think we differ is that I believe this lighter approach/man management style has produced advantages to us this season, that would carry over to next season (If you remember - I called Poch a foreign Harry Redknapp a few months back - I think there are a number of similarities in their management style) Where I think you believe that a stricter more technical/tactical switched on organised coach will produce better results with this current group.

Is this not just picking out the bits from an article that fit the narrative you want though? From what I see on here, its often the media know nothing, they write rubbish, make out they have insider moles that dont exist etc etc etc Until someone writes/talks about the things that suit that persons narrative, then its some sort of clear justification and worthy of note. I struggle to see how it can work both ways here. I'm also staggered that some are linking the importance of Gallagher to any new manager. Tuchel , Potter both had him for periods and he was a squad option. Gallagher is a Poch player with 50 appearences this season, the new man don't get to use not having Gallagher as any type of excuse for how things play out. Removing Poch makes it far easier to sell Gallagher. Like I said, we will find it is very hard to keep all the good bits and just lose the bad bits of Poch. Structure, coaching and organisation often comes with some sort of trade off. The top3 three teams in England happen to have most of the best players, but the only one of the three you would say are well structured right now is probably Arsenal. Liverpool and City play chaos football as much as we do, they just have better and more experienced players, and stability of good managers and a culture that supports what has been implemented over 7-8 years.

That is what significant portions of the clubs fan base do for some reason. We have a section of them much like Newcastle fans with Kevin Keegan in this respect. It is embarrassing and slightly cringeworthy that nearly every time we hit a difficult period at Chelsea, we hear cries and songs for Jose Mourinho! It's almost irrelevant that his achievements in football across the last decade is moderate at best, he did something great here previously and I want it back (which can often be translated to, I have no idea about anyone else!)

^ Insightful video for sure. What it does explain is that there is/has been a mass of contradictions with everything that has happened at the club over the last 12 months. Poch is known for working and developing young players, but he is also know for a more direct style of football, played at high intensity which gets forward players forward and scores goals. So if everything is geared towards possession football, and we have certainly been playing possession football in the last 24 months, then why appoint him in the first place? So clear a misalignment there with who made the appointment, as they didnt do enough homework to know what they were getting, compared with what they really wanted. This further illustrates that we can forgot about any reference to Gallagher and the new manager. He's gone and the management at the top want him gone. He is a Poch disciple for Poch football. If there is an acceptance for individual player talent producing great moments on occasions, rather than it being down to a well organised structure of play. There is a balance to be hand there, cos those great moments of individual talent are far more likely to occur when a player has a certain amount of freedom. and when you are in a situation where the team attacks forward with numbers and in a more direct manner (direct is not specifically long ball- before some post that we play out from the back). So its very easy to put that credit at the players door and think the manager is irrelevant to how that happened. I think next season will show that to be inaccurate. It may not be a well thought out process, but it has a far higher chance of occuring because of Poch style and structure (or lack of if some want to use that) You only have to look back at the numbers the likes of Dele Alli, Kane , Son were posting for Spurs, supported by the likes of Lucas Moura. I think a natural conclusion is that it would be very difficult for Poch to win a title in the PL. I think the vast majority of people on here accept this, his style of football is quite specific and opens up potential for many wins, but quite a few losses along the way. At the same time, for where we are right now as a club, and where these players are right now in their development. I find it difficult to think another year of stability had many advantages. I believe it will be very difficult to achieve what the club want under a specific new manager next season, without actually going backwards first. Unless the new manager is extremely good at his job and at getting his philosophy across, whilst being astute and flexible enough to manager situations well on/off the pitch. I think some people have this notion that we can keep all the good bits from last season cos we have the players, but loses the bad bits the manager brought to the table, then the new manager adds structure and coaching and we simply progress from there. I think it will soon become apparent that many of those good bits happened because we were not tied down to specific structure/shape/organisation. I expect we will score less goals next season, we will concede less goals next season. We will probably win less games, draw more games and probably lose less games too. Who knows where that leaves us this time next year, but I would expect in a position no better than we are right now.

You decided after 3 games. I am not judging any manager on points, you are missing my point here. My point is that you believe Poch to be a poor manager. So it’s already a low bar in your opinion, so lateral thinking means that any new manager should outperform the low bar that the previous poor manager achieved. Bearing in mind you wanted him gone after 3 games. So if you are using some sort of level playing field that you suggesting, then if we are a mess 3 games in, is it expected that you will be consistent ? Unlikely. It’s basic lateral thinking to expect improvement of the previous regime, if you are being transparent . Which is why I asked you what if we are 8pts less, but more organised . You didn’t really answer that, which is fine. You don’t have to answer it. Just don’t try and switch the perception away from the reality of the discussion. I think we have done this to death now. I won’t pursue any further for fear of another switcheroo into a scenario where I’m the bad guy here and you become the victim again.

I agree. Yes its a bigger club and bigger salary, but its quite difficult to do much reputational damage by getting a promoted team relegated when in the PL. Maresca probably has more to lose here than McKenna. Common sense would tell them to stay where they are. However, I said the same with Potter when he was at Brighton. He took the lure of the bigger club/salary, which he surely must regret now.

It dont matter if we are mid table. If Poch goes to Utd and takes them top4 and we finish 5th......it all still looks up there with one of the most ridiculous decisions a club can take. We won't have achieved what was required without him, whilst we would have handed a major rival a massive foot on the ladder of becoming relevant again. If you have no fear of this scenario, then you are a braver man than me!

^ Above you to your most Morgs - It has the potential to look an even worse decision if Poch ends up at Old Trafford and takes them back into the top4 at our expense. Even Poch's most fierce if critics are bricking it that this is very much a possibility for how things play out! The so called football men at Chelsea should resign with immediate effect if this situation does play out!

You would think it is this simple. However, I think some have found themselves in a situation they didnt expect, so this simplistic measure (based on Poch being so bad at his job) does not really seem to apply now when faced with the reality. I'm sensing this place will certainly require that tin hat you refer too in a few months time. I for one will not be hanging around to watch that mixture of rage/disappointment/hypocrisy unfold come October onwards ! I only see more short term pain around the corner, but probably on a worse scale than this season. Whether that short term pain can be turned into long term gain, well it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

If you read RDCW post above on this thread . We disagree on Poch as a manager and that’s fine. He is straight up with what he says though, he believes any new manager should improve on what Poch achieved, cos he backs the players and didn’t rate the manager. Perfectly clear and not open to interpretation. I respect his opinion on it cos it is what it is. He’s not trying to frame it in any other way. Yet after months and months of moaning and wanting him gone after 3 games. You seem to be taking the approach of context and nuance is to be applied and you don’t judge any managers on points or straight forward improvements. Even to the point of shadowing behind specific words like need/want/would like . You made it clear De Zerbi was a manager you wanted and that you watched all their matches unless they clashed with Chelsea games. None of this is made up mate. Just own it. Like you should own we need to improve upon what was achieved by a clown, cos that’s what the owners will be using as a metric.

You have continually touted for De Zerbi over the last few months. Now you may not have said the words we need De Zerbi, but you and Max were his biggest cheerleaders going back 6-7 months. Strange to try and walk back from that ( that doesn’t mean he was your number 1 choice- I am not saying that) There is no disagreement here for me to struggle with. It’s clear that now Poch has gone , all different types of nuance and context are available for any new manager in your world. No defined improvement on what the useless manager achieved is required…..clear as mud as always .

Yep all clear as mud mate. We need De Zerbi, I’m convinced after listening to JT that Jose is coming back. I’ve been told it’s Tuchel. I judge Poch and any manager fairly on their merits, but it’s not as simple as just doing better……all perfectly clear and straight up! I couldn’t care less about people agreeing with me. I would post far more regularly than I do if I gave a toss about that. You just don’t like being called out for emotional knee jerk nonsense so try to frame a different perception when the wind blows a different direction that suits! Ideal scenario for you is to ignore and not challenge anything you post that’s wrong, but praise you with kudos when you get it right!

These markets always fluctuate massively because bookies take no serious money on them. It’s the odd £20 here and there, as soon as anyone tries to land a decent stakes bet on a market like this, it would be rejected as its open to insider knowledge. It’s actually very difficult to get a bet of around £200 on a 15 runner horse race these days, especially with the big corp height street bookmakers . So you can guarantee they are not taking worthwhile bets on these markets, a few tenners here and there is enough to move something from 5/1 to 2/1 in a market like this.

Replace the manager for De Zerbi when we out performed them in the league and cups, and beat them 3/3 occasions in that very season……well if that isn’t just a madness then I don’t know what is!

Thomas Frank is a weird name to be linked. I think he is a decent manager, but Brentford are one of the most direct football teams around. We have been obsessed by possession for the last 2 seasons, so I really struggle to see any linear thinking behind why Frank might be considered.