Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[Sleeping Dave]

On 10/05/2024 at 23:07, east lower said:

What, like winning the Champions League??

Tactical masterclass’s x 3 versus Man City??

Managing the club heroically through the Government enforced crippling of our club??

You’re not convincing me much.

Twice the man and multiple times the coach, than this current incumbent.

 

He certainly hasn’t done much at Bayern. In a one team league he is 15 points off the title with a  small risk of finishing third. Not pretty. 

Tuchel is a decent manager, but he ain’t elite. He ain’t the type to build a young squad over time and he doesn’t play very attractive football. I’d rather keep Pochettino to be perfectly honest with you (for the situation we are in). 

Edited May 14 by Sleeping Dave

[east lower]

20 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

He certainly hasn’t done much at Bayern. In a one team league he is 15 points off the title with a  small risk of finishing third. Not pretty. 

Tuchel is a decent manager, but he ain’t elite. He ain’t the type to build a young squad over time and he doesn’t play very attractive football. I’d rather keep Pochettino to be perfectly honest with you (for the situation we are in). 

I’d agree that his time at Bayern hasn’t been a roaring success, but there’s an argument that Leverkusen are an exceptional team, for how long - who knows. But their record this season and not just domestically, would suggest they are. I’d also comment that there’s something rotten behind the scenes at Bayern right now - evidenced by at least two coaches turning them down.

Tuchel’s Chelsea played some of the most dynamic football that’s been seen for a good few years. His system that had James and Chilwell playing was absolutely brilliant.

Stand by what I said though twice the man, multiple times the coach when put up as a comparison. 

Edited May 14 by east lower

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

He certainly hasn’t done much at Bayern. In a one team league he is 15 points off the title with a  small risk of finishing third. Not pretty. 

Tuchel is a decent manager, but he ain’t elite. He ain’t the type to build a young squad over time and he doesn’t play very attractive football. I’d rather keep Pochettino to be perfectly honest with you (for the situation we are in). 

The last bit in brackets really is the key to all this. No problem with people not regarding Poch as a top level manager, but that ain’t the situation we are in right now! Nor will it be next season, unless we are about to invest £400 million on 3-4 proven level signings (unlikely)

To be fair to east lower, he is actually someone who has straight up admitted it’s personal with Poch. He’s about the only one really. 
Some of the criticism thrown his way throughout the season has just been so far wide of the mark, and some of it bordering delusional propaganda to be honest.

I don’t remember who it was now, but someone posted within the last 2-3 weeks that it’s clear over 90%  of our fan base want Poch gone!

Just made up bollox to try and drive some sort of agenda and narrative, they can’t seriously be that far detached from the feeling around the  club/fans, so it has to be agenda driven motives. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Thiago97 said:

The last bit in brackets really is the key to all this. No problem with people not regarding Poch as a top level manager, but that ain’t the situation we are in right now! Nor will it be next season, unless we are about to invest £400 million on 3-4 proven level signings (unlikely)

To be fair to east lower, he is actually someone who has straight up admitted it’s personal with Poch. He’s about the only one really. 
Some of the criticism thrown his way throughout the season has just been so far wide of the mark, and some of it bordering delusional propaganda to be honest.

I don’t remember who it was now, but someone posted within the last 2-3 weeks that it’s clear over 90%  of our fan base want Poch gone!

Just made up bollox to try and drive some sort of agenda and narrative, they can’t seriously be that far detached from the feeling around the  club/fans, so it has to be agenda driven motives. 

Well it's certainly not agenda driven on my behalf . 

I contend still that the lack of any and I mean any structure in the side from the early days coupled with his "shit the bed" approach when at the time he'd lost one player to injury at the beginning of the season coupled to his known ruthless fitness regime losing players to injury  cost us at the beginning of the season . When the players are all aware of their roles in the side , where to be when we have possession of the ball and where to be when we're out of position , how to move as a unit , how to get the best out of the disparate bunch he'd inherited we would have more points now . 

He's certainly a lucky coach , he's lucky that as time has gone on the players have learned each others games over time and are playing more like a unit now although the defensive side of the game is still disastrous , he's lucky the FM guys decided Cole Palmer was worth investing in.

I'm at the stage where I actually think ripping up and starting again isn't the best option with the players we have seeing as they all appear to like him and appreciate him and I do believe that's far more important to the football club than any amount of speculation and critique on a football forum for novices who do not know the full picture .

[kev61]

46 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Well said - I find myself firmly in this camp. Our squad isn’t a top PL squad. Perhaps these names would be in a few years, but the squad is too young and inexperienced to challenge now. 

We are likely to end the season with 60+ points, a vast improvement from last year’s 44. It’s been clear progress and it’s been made in his first season under difficult circumstances. Give him more time, it’ll take time to rebuild this club to solid top four challenger year after year. Perhaps he isn’t the man to make us title challengers, but such concerns are way premature. First we need to stabilise in the top four and then we can start worrying whether he can win titles for us. 

It is a very nice narrative.The problem is some people can see that his contribution to the team is luck 

Napoleon said he would rather have a lucky general than a good one.

We have a very good squad(when all fit) I just can't see this guy winning trophies.

[east lower]

8 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The last bit in brackets really is the key to all this. No problem with people not regarding Poch as a top level manager, but that ain’t the situation we are in right now! Nor will it be next season, unless we are about to invest £400 million on 3-4 proven level signings (unlikely)

To be fair to east lower, he is actually someone who has straight up admitted it’s personal with Poch. He’s about the only one really. 
Some of the criticism thrown his way throughout the season has just been so far wide of the mark, and some of it bordering delusional propaganda to be honest.

I don’t remember who it was now, but someone posted within the last 2-3 weeks that it’s clear over 90%  of our fan base want Poch gone!

Just made up bollox to try and drive some sort of agenda and narrative, they can’t seriously be that far detached from the feeling around the  club/fans, so it has to be agenda driven motives. 

There was a poll on here, can’t find it now where 70/75% wanted him gone. Seen similar on other Chelsea forums. 
 

By far the majority had said get gone. Now I’ve been around long enough and experienced the fickle nature of some people to understand that opinions change as quickly for some, as does the weather in Spring in the UK. So the recent run of results will have swayed some people’s opinions, but when you look at his record over his career - it leads to one place and that’s failure.

It isn’t personal, I just think he’s never been a top level coach. The Southampton job was his limit. At the top level he’s a failure. He’s media ‘friendly’, and by that I mean very friendly. I’m not going to betray a confidence but I will say when things go wrong, people who shouldn’t get to know stuff do. You don’t need that crap going on.

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Well it's certainly not agenda driven on my behalf . 

I contend still that the lack of any and I mean any structure in the side from the early days coupled with his "shit the bed" approach when at the time he'd lost one player to injury at the beginning of the season coupled to his known ruthless fitness regime losing players to injury  cost us at the beginning of the season . When the players are all aware of their roles in the side , where to be when we have possession of the ball and where to be when we're out of position , how to move as a unit , how to get the best out of the disparate bunch he'd inherited we would have more points now . 

He's certainly a lucky coach , he's lucky that as time has gone on the players have learned each others games over time and are playing more like a unit now although the defensive side of the game is still disastrous , he's lucky the FM guys decided Cole Palmer was worth investing in.

I'm at the stage where I actually think ripping up and starting again isn't the best option with the players we have seeing as they all appear to like him and appreciate him and I do believe that's far more important to the football club than any amount of speculation and critique on a football forum for novices who do not know the full picture .

I’m not sure that’s strictly true Mark. You have been  consistent with what you have said though, and I think some of the observations you have made do certainly have merit.

The main thing why I would question no agenda is because I remember how supportive you were of the team under Potter. You turned on Poch far far quicker than you did Potter ( we all turned on Potter in the end ), yet despite people match games/points of Poch Vs Potter 3-4 months back and them vehemently claiming we were no better (not saying you did this, some did though)…….it’s been clear since August we are and have been far better this season.

The patience you had for Potter 4-5 months in (despite virtually no positives) has not been there for Poch after about 1 month of his tenure . 

[Sleeping Dave]

On 11/05/2024 at 09:23, martin1905 said:

Never really gone on too much about this as it comes across as a bit nobby because I'm lucky enough to be a regular but there is a big difference between match going fans and those that don't.

Those that spend thousands and thousands of pounds travelling across Europe year after year don't really care how pretty the football is, it makes literally no difference to the experience. It's no more enjoyable, its all about being there. And winning.

Sitting at home on the sofa, I'm sure the experience is much better and more enjoyable if its pretty to watch and I think that's why there is, and always has been, a big difference in views from those that regularly attend matches and those that don't.

 

Sorry mate but this is rubbish. I used to go to every single game whereas these days, with family life and a career, I’m not able to. 

If anything, I find it easier to go through a rough patch being in the stands than sitting at home. Would I feel differently about Poch if I were a regular today? No. It’s about being realistic of where we as a club are. We are not a top side. We are in a serious rebuilding phase and for this  I think Poch is the best man for the job (that we realistically can get). 

 

 

 

 

[Thiago97]

7 minutes ago, east lower said:

There was a poll on here, can’t find it now where 70/75% wanted him gone. Seen similar on other Chelsea forums. 
 

By far the majority had said get gone. Now I’ve been around long enough and experienced the fickle nature of some people to understand that opinions change as quickly for some, as does the weather in Spring in the UK. So the recent run of results will have swayed some people’s opinions, but when you look at his record over his career - it leads to one place and that’s failure.

It isn’t personal, I just think he’s never been a top level coach. The Southampton job was his limit. At the top level he’s a failure. He’s media ‘friendly’, and by that I mean very friendly. I’m not going to betray a confidence but I will say when things go wrong, people who shouldn’t get to know stuff do. You don’t need that crap going on.

That poll must have been a good while back. There was one on Straight outta Cobham podcast recently which had 84% Chelsea want him to stay ( I don’t really believe it’s that high either)

So you are right and this knee jerk game by game reaction this season, is something I have found unbearable !

[ROTG]

5 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

That poll must have been a good while back. There was one on Straight outta Cobham podcast recently which had 84% Chelsea want him to stay ( I don’t really believe it’s that high either)

 

SOC is a media outlet for the TBSD, they write some nice articles, however their podcast are very one sided and certainly not controversial,  like Yannick on football therapy 

Chelsea FanCast is always entertaining 

[east lower]

17 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

That poll must have been a good while back. There was one on Straight outta Cobham podcast recently which had 84% Chelsea want him to stay ( I don’t really believe it’s that high either)

So you are right and this knee jerk game by game reaction this season, is something I have found unbearable !

Well, I may or may not be right - but I am consistent.

Thought it was a poor appointment, but pre-season was promising and thought ‘well that looked ok and promising’. It took a game and a half for him to forget the pre-season promise and regress into quite frankly some of the worst football and performances I’ve witnessed in the last 20 years. I use 20 years as that’s the period where plenty of money has been made available and there’s a relevant comparison.

Let’s not let ourselves get kidded along that a corner has been turned either. When an opponent is full-on we still struggle and never forget the disgraceful performance the coach put up at the League Cup Final. Because when the going gets tough, some people don’t get tough with it and revert to type - is that what people want these young people being exposed to, early in their senior careers? Be careful what you wish for. You want excellence, then excellence has to be at the very top and filter down through the organisation. Accept failure - be a failure. 

Edited May 14 by east lower

[east lower]

42 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Sorry mate but this is rubbish. I used to go to every single game whereas these days, with family life and a career, I’m not able to. 

If anything, I find it easier to go through a rough patch being in the stands than sitting at home. Would I feel differently about Poch if I were a regular today? No. It’s about being realistic of where we as a club are. We are not a top side. We are in a serious rebuilding phase and for this  I think Poch is the best man for the job (that we realistically can get). 

 

 

 

 

I agree with @martin1905. Given your experience, you may be the exception - but from what I’ve witnessed on this forum and very much did on the old version is a very different view and tolerance from non-regular attendees (I’d venture some may not have set foot in the stadium) to regular attendees.

Does that make their views less relevant, not sure on that but I would question the level of investment/effect.

Edited May 14 by east lower

[Thiago97]

23 minutes ago, east lower said:

Well, I may or may not be right - but I am consistent.

Thought it was a poor appointment, but pre-season was promising and thought ‘well that looked ok and promising’. It took a game and a half for him to forget the pre-season promise and regress into quite frankly some of the worst football and performances I’ve witnessed in the last 20 years. I use 20 years as that’s the period where plenty of money has been made available and there’s a relevant comparison.

Let’s not let ourselves get kidded along that a corner has been turned either. When an opponent is full-on we still struggle and never forget the disgraceful performance the coach put up at the League Cup Final. Because when the going gets tough, some people don’t get tough with it and revert to type - is that what people want these young people being exposed to, early in their senior careers? Be careful what you wish for. You want excellence, then excellence has to be at the very top and filter down through the organisation. Accept failure - be a failure. 

I agree here. I have also been keen to stress this run of games are quite nice on paper, when you take into account the situation of the clubs involved and time of year. This run does not mean a corner has been turned, but I would say we look more like a team in this little run of games. The Cucurella inverted role does seem to provide a nice balance across the team, but these things often get worked out over a run of 3-6 months.

The young players are being exposed to a manager who has a track record of working well with young players. I would much rather they are exposed to this right now, as opposed to constantly having to train themselves to death to understand rigid tactical structures and live in fear of making a mistake or having an off day.........all that can come from the next manager within the next 2 years or so, when they should be at the stage of their careers where they have a greater understanding of the game, and then need the guidance of a manager who will take them and the club to the next level. This club should know far better than most what happens when young players come under serial winners, there is 2  living PL legends who couldn't really live with those demands, at that stage of their career. They went elsewhere to continue their development under less demanding scrutiny, before coming back to England show they were more than good enough, and it was to our rivals benefit for about 7-8 seasons !

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

There was a poll on here, can’t find it now where 70/75% wanted him gone. Seen similar on other Chelsea forums. 
 

By far the majority had said get gone. Now I’ve been around long enough and experienced the fickle nature of some people to understand that opinions change as quickly for some, as does the weather in Spring in the UK. So the recent run of results will have swayed some people’s opinions, but when you look at his record over his career - it leads to one place and that’s failure.

It isn’t personal, I just think he’s never been a top level coach. The Southampton job was his limit. At the top level he’s a failure. He’s media ‘friendly’, and by that I mean very friendly. I’m not going to betray a confidence but I will say when things go wrong, people who shouldn’t get to know stuff do. You don’t need that crap going on.

👀

[Thiago97]

42 minutes ago, ROTG said:

SOC is a media outlet for the TBSD, they write some nice articles, however their podcast are very one sided and certainly not controversial,  like Yannick on football therapy 

Chelsea FanCast is always entertaining 

I can't say I listen every week, just now and then really. It comes across as pretty fair and balanced to me. The guys on there have openly criticised the  recruitment process during the last 12-18 months. They have certainly questioned the current and last manager on a number of occasions, without jumping in two footed I would say.

It does not come across as a pro TBSD outlet to me.

[Mark Kelly]

52 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I’m not sure that’s strictly true Mark. You have been  consistent with what you have said though, and I think some of the observations you have made do certainly have merit.

The main thing why I would question no agenda is because I remember how supportive you were of the team under Potter. You turned on Poch far far quicker than you did Potter ( we all turned on Potter in the end ), yet despite people match games/points of Poch Vs Potter 3-4 months back and them vehemently claiming we were no better (not saying you did this, some did though)…….it’s been clear since August we are and have been far better this season.

The patience you had for Potter 4-5 months in (despite virtually no positives) has not been there for Poch after about 1 month of his tenure . 

I think that's human nature though , I was broadly supportive of Potter firstly because I was happy with the choice and secondly because my faith in the players was being eroded on a weekly basis , I still hold them more responsible for our demise than I do him , I understand that there was a great upheaval at the time but many of the players we were relying on to see us through this in my opnion didn't care and couldn't wait to get away .

With Poch I was excited when he was announced , delighted how we set up pre season and then utterly dismayed how due to losing Nkunku he changed his approach completely and at times seemed to be actually trying to play players in positions which weakened the team and made those same players worse not better , it was almost a betrayal and that's why I called him out for a coward and turned almost immediately , I was hoping for great things and was given virtually nothing in return.

[kev61]

11 hours ago, east lower said:

Squad wasn’t as bad as people make out. Confidence was destroyed by incompetence at the coaching level.

I admire your patience.We  are improving because we signed a gem in Palmer and the players getting used to each other. 

Nothing to do with the coach.

[ROTG]

19 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I can't say I listen every week, just now and then really. It comes across as pretty fair and balanced to me. The guys on there have openly criticised the  recruitment process during the last 12-18 months. They have certainly questioned the current and last manager on a number of occasions, without jumping in two footed I would say.

It does not come across as a pro TBSD outlet to me.

All I can say is they SOC have gone from a squad assessment 2 months which they said certain players need to be moved on or loaned, to there podcast post or per  Forrest game when the did a complete 180 and everything is rosey in the garden. 

[ROTG]

1 minute ago, kev61 said:

I admire your patience.We  are improving because we signed a gem in Palmer and the players getting used to each other. 

Nothing to do with the coach.

Poch and the bloke at Bournemouth are the biggest improvers in total points compared to last season. 
 

Not forgetting the German bloke at Palace who got 21pts in his 12 PL games since his arrival 

[ROTG]

32 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The young players are being exposed to a manager who has a track record of working well with young players. I would much rather they are exposed to this right now, as opposed to constantly having to train themselves to death to understand rigid tactical structures and live in fear of making a mistake or having an off day.........all that can come from the next manager within the next 2 years or so, when they should be at the stage of their careers where they have a greater understanding of the game,

The players are not that young, when you look at the recent starting 11. With key players returning from injury next season the starting 11 average age will probably 24 -25 that is not a young squad. 
 

Many of these players will be at their peek in ability next season, therefore it’s not the coaches fault if the standards required  to be in the top four are not met. 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Sorry mate but this is rubbish. I used to go to every single game whereas these days, with family life and a career, I’m not able to. 

If anything, I find it easier to go through a rough patch being in the stands than sitting at home. Would I feel differently about Poch if I were a regular today? No. It’s about being realistic of where we as a club are. We are not a top side. We are in a serious rebuilding phase and for this  I think Poch is the best man for the job (that we realistically can get). 

You've taken what I said out of context Dave, I was saying most match going fans care more about winning that playing pretty football. Was nothing to do with the manager.

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

The players are not that young, when you look at the recent starting 11. With key players returning from injury next season the starting 11 average age will probably 24 -25 that is not a young squad. 
 

Many of these players will be at their peek in ability next season, therefore it’s not the coaches fault if the standards required  to be in the top four are not met. 

24-25 average age is still a young squad. Whilst I did say young, you are focusing purely on age.

The likes of Palmer, Lavia, Mudryk, Jackson to name a few, they might not be young as in they are still in their teens, but they are young in terms of first team experience. They barely have 100 first team games each to their name.

The lack of playing experience offers more scope for progress than their age in isolation.

[east lower]

23 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I admire your patience.We  are improving because we signed a gem in Palmer and the players getting used to each other. 

Nothing to do with the coach.

Believe me, I have very little - if any confidence in the coaches ability and like you I’d say that there has been a ‘forming’ stage/process taking place. 

People like me (and maybe you?) believe this is taking place through natural progression I.e. the more you work with someone the better you know their strengths, weaknesses, habits and others think it’s the coaches ability. However simple things like getting your best defensive header of the ball to attack any corner or even mark their main threat can’t be in the modern smart coach handbook. That must sit on the bedside table of our man.

 

[east lower]

56 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

👀

At Saints and Spuds.

[Sleeping Dave]

44 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

You've taken what I said out of context Dave, I was saying most match going fans care more about winning that playing pretty football. Was nothing to do with the manager.

Oh, ok. Apologies if I misunderstood you. 

I always care more about winning than playing pretty football. But again, being in the stand would go a long way to cancel out the boring football out on the pitch vs. having to endure it on the telly.