Mason Mount

[JaneB]

Worried for him.

[Michael Tucker]

Why?

[JaneB]

Because, for whatever reason, he’s not the player he was.

(It should also be noted that when I’m putting up ‘new’ threads on here, ie trying to remember all the ‘old’ threads, I have to add a post otherwise it won’t work, hence a few random comments!!)

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, JaneB said:

Because, for whatever reason, he’s not the player he was.

He hasn't been, and it is a worry, but I do believe there's a few valid reasons as to why.

Since Mount debuted for us in 2019/20 he's played 129 Premier League games for 9581 minutes. With a total record of 195 appearances for 13,704 minutes in all comps. That's a hefty amount of football for someone that's only just turned 24 a couple weeks ago. That also ignores the 3,800 minutes he played out on loan at Derby the prior season before his Chelsea debut, along with his International duties. All of this has come with minimal time off over the off-season and having delayed starts to pre-season.

The manner in which he's been used hasn't always put him in the best position to succeed individually, opposed to doing what's best for the team. He's been one of the main instigators of our high press in recent years and gets through a lot of hard running.

I don't think he's going to be as great as maybe some through he would be initially to continuously carry a side, but he's still capable of being a really good player that does a lot of team based stuff that managers love (which is why he also gets picked so often even when out of form). 

Hopefully with some better players around him that can take some of the workload and responsibly off his shoulders, plus maybe finding a position/role he can consistency play, and a bit of a decent break at some point, he can find some form again.

There's also the possibility that his contract situation has also impacted him a little, so hopefully we're able to sort that sometime soon as well. 

 

[Michael Tucker]

5 hours ago, JaneB said:

Because, for whatever reason, he’s not the player he was. 

I'm not sure that he ever really was (if you get what I mean!). Certainly good, but not great, and not a player who can 'carry' the team forward on his own back. I don't want to lose him, but I wouldn't be distraught if we did.

[My Blood Is Blue]

Interested to see how Mount reacts to all these recent signings, it feels a bit like when Roman first arrived and we signed so many top players. Many thought it would be the end of Lampard at Chelsea, but he dug in and took his game to new heights, can Mount do something similar?

He’s been a starter pretty much since her broke into the first team, but his space is now surely under serious threat.

[Bob Singleton]

@My Blood Is Blue He strikes me as a hard worker, so I can see this spurring him on. What he does need, however, is a proper break at the end of the season - something he's not really had since he came back from his Derby loan. He's been shifted from one role/position to another to make up for our general lack of quality, which hasn't helped him make one position his own. Maybe these signings are just what we need to see the best of him.

[My Blood Is Blue]

7 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

@My Blood Is Blue He strikes me as a hard worker, so I can see this spurring him on. What he does need, however, is a proper break at the end of the season - something he's not really had since he came back from his Derby loan. He's been shifted from one role/position to another to make up for our general lack of quality, which hasn't helped him make one position his own. Maybe these signings are just what we need to see the best of him.

I hope you’re right Bob. I completely agree about the break, he really does need one and then as you touch on, I hope that next season he’s able to settle into a position rather than covering wherever we happen to be weakest.

I think he’d be good in a 3 man midfield, however I think we’ll be 4231 next season and so I think it will have to be somewhere in that 3, most likely the central role I would say, so he can drop back in when needed.

All that said, I do think he needs to take another step up and start increasing his output if he’s to continue competing for a starting role.

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

All that said, I do think he needs to take another step up and start increasing his output if he’s to continue competing for a starting role.

This.

Be interesting to see if he's up to the challenge.

[paulw66]

On 30/01/2023 at 19:00, Bob Singleton said:

@My Blood Is Blue He strikes me as a hard worker, so I can see this spurring him on. What he does need, however, is a proper break at the end of the season - something he's not really had since he came back from his Derby loan. He's been shifted from one role/position to another to make up for our general lack of quality, which hasn't helped him make one position his own. Maybe these signings are just what we need to see the best of him.

This.

It's patently obvious he has played too much football over the last few seasons, which is largely our fault for not having enough depth to be able to leave him out.

Just turned 24 and has 307 senior appearances (including England) under his belt. For context, that is 50 more than Lampard (a player who was noted for never being unavailable) at the same age. I had to double check the numbers, but think I am right. 

No summer off in 2021, shortened summer in 2022, then the WC. Amazing he hasn't succumbed to injury, like so many others have (here and at other clubs)

[martin1905]

Said for a long, long time he will make a great number 8 and ideally needs to play in a three man midfield.

I worry that with his versatility and work rate we will continue to waste him playing him as one of the more attacking/wide players.

Personally I don't think he will sign a new contract if that continues and can't blame him. Unfortunately I think he will end up at Liverpool, he's perfect to be one of Klopp's 8's in that system and they are desperate to revamp their midfield.

 

[FrankLampard8]

11 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Said for a long, long time he will make a great number 8 and ideally needs to play in a three man midfield.

I worry that with his versatility and work rate we will continue to waste him playing him as one of the more attacking/wide players.

Personally I don't think he will sign a new contract if that continues and can't blame him. Unfortunately I think he will end up at Liverpool, he's perfect to be one of Klopp's 8's in that system and they are desperate to revamp their midfield.

 

The thing that would make me think twice about that (other than my undying hatred of that football club, it's fans and having to live anywhere in the vicinity) is will Klopp be there much longer? The wheels feel like they could be coming off a little bit and a rebuild could be needed. Has Klopp got the stomach to start again there? If not, you would be joining a very uncertain situation. Meanwhile, the club he says he loves is out there spending record amounts on a young team to try and get back to the top. 

[paulw66]

49 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

I worry that with his versatility and work rate we will continue to waste him playing him as one of the more attacking/wide players.

 

 

We have spent circa 150m on 3 wide players since the summer. Plus Felix on loan, who could join permanently. Plus Nkunku.

I can't see Mount continuing out wide at all. 

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, paulw66 said:

We have spent circa 150m on 3 wide players since the summer. Plus Felix on loan, who could join permanently. Plus Nkunku.

I can't see Mount continuing out wide at all. 

Then the question is, if we continue to play a 4231 is he good enough as a number 10? I absolutely love him but no way would I play him there.

If we don't play a three man midfield, which I can't see, with the extra wide players we have signed Mount could see less game time then previously and he's about to enter the last year if his contract.

I know you could argue he will get plenty of minutes covering a number of positions but I just don't think that will be enough for him, at his age, at this stage if his career.

I was worried after he didn't sign in the summer, now I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him sold in the summer. Obviously hope I'm wrong.

[Box of Tricks]

If we're heading down the 4-2-3-1 road then I don't see a place for him, and after being a regular for 3-4 years, I don't see him signing up for a squad role.

I'd sell. I'm generally against the thirst of the "let's cash in on squad players who came out of Cobham so we can make pure profit on them" posts on Twitter, but I think for a couple of players it (regretfully) makes sense. 

[Rob B]

44 minutes ago, Box of Tricks said:

If we're heading down the 4-2-3-1 road then I don't see a place for him, and after being a regular for 3-4 years, I don't see him signing up for a squad role.

I'd sell. I'm generally against the thirst of the "let's cash in on squad players who came out of Cobham so we can make pure profit on them" posts on Twitter, but I think for a couple of players it (regretfully) makes sense. 

Mount's been one of our best players over the last 3-4 years, so write him off at your peril. 

He's having a poor season by his standards but the whole team has rubbish overall and we've just signed some creative talent to support him.  Enzo will get the ball into him much more quickly and Mudryk, Felix and Noni will stretch the play better which creates space.  His best performances for us have also been when Chilwell and James are fit. 

Therefore, I actually predict the opposite.  I think he will extend, and I think he will bounce back with a bang.  He's too talented. 

[Mark Kelly]

He's having a woeful season but he's simply been horribly overplayed , just like Kovacic has been because we've had terrible injuries and no other midfield / forward options 

He desperately need rest and recuperation 

 

[paulw66]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He's having a woeful season but he's simply been horribly overplayed , just like Kovacic has been because we've had terrible injuries and no other midfield / forward options 

He desperately need rest and recuperation 

 

yup.

I was shocked when I ran these numbers:

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

 

Just turned 24 and has 307 senior appearances (including England) under his belt. For context, that is 50 more than Lampard (a player who was noted for never being unavailable) at the same age. 

 

 

[Box of Tricks]

25 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Mount's been one of our best players over the last 3-4 years, so write him off at your peril. 

He's having a poor season by his standards but the whole team has rubbish overall and we've just signed some creative talent to support him.  Enzo will get the ball into him much more quickly and Mudryk, Felix and Noni will stretch the play better which creates space.  His best performances for us have also been when Chilwell and James are fit. 

Therefore, I actually predict the opposite.  I think he will extend, and I think he will bounce back with a bang.  He's too talented. 

I get this, but I'd still say that if it's not a 4-3-3 (where there's a more obvious place for him), then where would he fit?

He's not suited to a pivot (playing alongside Enzo is a non-starter), he's not going to play out wide (especially on the left) and he's not productive enough to be a '10'.

I just don't see a regular spot for him, and that might influence his thinking.

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Box of Tricks said:

I get this, but I'd still say that if it's not a 4-3-3 (where there's a more obvious place for him), then where would he fit?

He's not suited to a pivot (playing alongside Enzo is a non-starter), he's not going to play out wide (especially on the left) and he's not productive enough to be a '10'.

I just don't see a regular spot for him, and that might influence his thinking.

Agreed 100%.

He's always said he's a midfielder, a number 8 and I think him not being played there is a reason he's not signed a new contract. He's clearly very versatile, which helped massively in terms of being able to get games when he probably wouldn't have played so much if he could only play cm. It also would have hugely helped him develop his game but at some point, he's 24 now, he won't accept it. Also he probably doesn't start when everyone is fit in our best 11 as a wide player or number 10.

One year left on his contract from the summer. It's a serious worry. Annoyingly when Potter inevitably leaves we will almost certainly play 433 so it would be a real shame to see him go, thrive elsewhere for one of our rivals in his best position, which he undoubtedly will and then see us change manager.

No player is bigger than the club but some are bigger than the manager. 

[Rob B]

1 hour ago, Box of Tricks said:

I get this, but I'd still say that if it's not a 4-3-3 (where there's a more obvious place for him), then where would he fit?

He's not suited to a pivot (playing alongside Enzo is a non-starter), he's not going to play out wide (especially on the left) and he's not productive enough to be a '10'.

I just don't see a regular spot for him, and that might influence his thinking.

Well, I think it will be a 4-3-3 personally with probably someone like Rice as the 4 to arrive in the summer, Enzo as a creative 6 with licence to roam, and Mount / A N Other as the attacking 8. 

But even if it is a 4-2-3-1 they are very similar anyway and I think he will still get plenty of minutes in the 10 role regardless: 

• He offers loads defensively which when you are playing a double pivot, you are going to need
• He will have better attackers around him and our forward play more generally should be much improved with the new additions
• Joao Felix who you would think will be his main competition currently, hasn't even signed permanently yet
• I think his productivity will improve next season when he's had a proper break  (and probably won't have the contractual situation playing on his mind)

Btw, I'm not a Mount fanboy - I'll be the first to admit he's been poor this season, but I just don't want to write him off. 

[Mark Kelly]

From what I understand one of Potters strengths previously has been to be able to put out different formations depending on who he's playing against , I don't believe we will have a rigid formation set in stone .

Also , I'm certain he'd ideally want a formation to get the best out of our best players , so let's not get too worried too soon .

Edited February 3, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Bob Singleton]

I'm hoping Potter can convince him that, 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, there'll be plenty of game time for him, without being over-played as he has been the last few years.

[RDCW]

I think we have to accommodate Mason Mount. He can do everything except score consistently and I really hope Mudryk will instil a shooting practice work ethic. 

[RDCW]

Well it looks like Mason is on his way out. He is reputed to be demanding £240,000 / week to bring him into line with Lukaku and Sterling, which would triple his wages.

I'm not sure anyone else will pay him that kind of money.