Newcastle United 4 Chelsea 1

[xceleryx]

1 minute ago, Dwmh said:

So now we have no platform.  At 44 points we might as well be a newly promoted Championship team.

So if all our players had gone nowhere
like Lampard, Torres, Schurrle, Bertrands, Cole, Ba, Etoo, Malouda, Schwarzer and others did in 13/14 of Cech benched ( but not Luiz and Mata who did go somewhere)

Then absolutely you could be describing a team that was in desperate need of an overhaul.

But we know where the 21/22 team have all ended up.  Kante for mega bucks, but everyone else has gone to stronger teams that Chelsea now, and quite a few to teams stronger than Chelsea 2022.

We have a much more feasible platform actually. Sure, it's meant a lower floor level for the time being, but it also posses a greater chance of having a higher ceiling should we progress and develop as envisioned. 

Where the players we've sold have gone is entirely meaningless. They were all here last season, underperforming once more and contributing heavily to the shit we were in. You tried pushing this the other day and I believe @paulw66 provided an adequate response to it. 

11 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I think you are proving my point - yes any idiot knows that if you take away all the experience and play in a tough league you are going to have a tough time and destroy the confidence of young players.
The Creamcakes should have known that too.  But they did it deliberarely - and you support that!

It was stupid stupid.  Well unless a trip to the Championship to regain confidence is part of the deliberate plan.

Ownership will have also known this, hence they hired a manager that's got a track record of developing young players. You don't plan this sort of rebuild without acknowledging that there's a good likelihood of being worse before you get better. 

[Dwmh]

12 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We have a much more feasible platform actually. Sure, it's meant a lower floor level for the time being, but it also posses a greater chance of having a higher ceiling should we progress and develop as envisioned. 

I'd say getting from 44 to 54 points is about as hard as going from 54 to 64  or from 64 to 74.
Actually it is probably easier to go from 74 to 84 and a lot easier to go from 84 to 94 because that is purely about getting 3 points of teams you already know you can outplay.
We made the challenge to 84 points 4 times as hard,

 

14 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Where the players we've sold have gone is entirely meaningless.

It means they were top players with a lot of value seen by other metrics than our own money ball experts use.

15 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

They were all here last season, underperforming once more and contributing heavily to the shit we were in.

And yet they were still grabbed by clubs who presumably can see the performances and identify our issues last season as having nothing to do with those players.  (As frankly did most watchers).

18 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

You tried pushing this the other day and I believe @paulw66 provided an adequate response to it. 

There is no adequate response to it.  The players you claim needed to be got rid of were snapped up by the top clubs in UK and Europe.  They are almost all playing CL this week and next.  They are the smart guys.

16 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Ownership will have also known this, hence they hired a manager that's got a track record of developing young player

The current one has a track record of no successes other than MOTM and using "young players" as an excuse for that.  Much like the temp before that and Potter before that.

21 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

You don't plan this sort of rebuild without acknowledging that    because   there's a good likelihood of being worse before you hope to get better. 

fixed
It's been self-destruction - only you think it has been deliberate suicide not accidental.

 

[xceleryx]

10 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'd say getting from 44 to 54 points is about as hard as going from 54 to 64  or from 64 to 74.
Actually it is probably easier to go from 74 to 84 and a lot easier to go from 84 to 94 because that is purely about getting 3 points of teams you already know you can outplay.
We made the challenge to 84 points 4 times as hard,

Your use of points is flawed because it's not as straight-forward as you're making it sound, as there's so many unaccounted for variables that have a huge influence on points earned over a season. 

12 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

It means they were top players with a lot of value seen by other metrics than our own money ball experts use

Or they were players that had been here for years prior and contributed to the shit show seen last season. Many of which had also been perennially inconsistent, be it through form, fitness or both. 

14 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

And yet they were still grabbed by clubs who presumably can see the performances and identify our issues last season as having nothing to do with those players.  (As frankly did most watchers).

Players thrive in an array of environments, just because some of ours ended up at better performing clubs doesn't make them the right ones for us to move forward with. Man City would be good with or without Kova. Man Utd would be in a similar position with or without Mount, Arsenal similar with Havertz, and so on. 

18 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

There is no adequate response to it.  The players you claim needed to be got rid of were snapped up by the top clubs in UK and Europe.  They are almost all playing CL this week and next.  They are the smart guys.

And? This has been the basis of football for god knows how many years. Just as players who've struggled at one club can go on and succeed elsewhere, even at higher level. Take a current example being Joselu, horrendous at Stoke and Newcastle, and now plays for Real Madrid and doing well. 

22 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

The current one has a track record of no successes other than MOTM and using "young players" as an excuse for that.  Much like the temp before that and Potter before that.

His track record with young teams is why he was hired, because you know, we're a young developing team. There was no expectations to win anything this season, unless you had your head in the clouds of course. He was as suitable fit for the project on hand, it's that simple where you like it or not. 

25 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

fixed
It's been self-destruction - only you think it has been deliberate suicide not accidental.

We needed this hard reset, have done for years, where you agree or not is of no real concern of mine. You're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion. Trying to pass it off as factual ain't the play.

Either way, I'm jumping off this merry-go-round and am off to bed.

[Dwmh]

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Your use of points is flawed because it's not as straight-forward as you're making it sound, as there's so many unaccounted for variables that have a huge influence on points earned over a season. 

??? This makes no sense, it is one of those blanket denials that mean nothing.  Why obfusticate?

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Or they were players that had been here for years prior and contributed to the shit show seen last season. Many of which had also been perennially inconsistent, be it through form, fitness or both. 

FFS 74 points.  There was a disaster last year - it was the players we lost in 2022, the players we gained in 2022 or the management changes from 2022 but absolutely NOT the players we kept from 2022.
Wake up to how silly what you are saying sounds.

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

And? This has been the basis of football for god knows how many years. Just as players who've struggled at one club can go on and succeed elsewhere, even at higher level. Take a current example being Joselu, horrendous at Stoke and Newcastle, and now plays for Real Madrid and doing well. 

Neat insertion of straw man.  The players were taken on the basis of scouting of their play at Chelsea.  Other clubs simply reached a different opinion of the players from our scouts.  It was the Chelsea player Man City bought.

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

His track record with young teams is why he was hired, because you know, we're a young developing team. There was no expectations to win anything this season, unless you had your head in the clouds of course. He was as suitable fit for the project on hand, it's that simple where you like it or not. 

or listened to the interviews about being a top team.  
He was a crap manager who went a year after leaving Spurs and then almost a year before joining us.
We hired Poch because the alternative was sticking with Lampard.
I'm not blaming him, just that the club lowered it self so far last season that we could not get anyone else.

Who the hell would take on a 44 point team which has already splashed its dosh in the hope of making it a top team?
A 51 yo who had only worked for 18 of the previous 42 months is who.

(I've been that 51 yo, God knows some of the stupid jobs I took desperately in my early 50s.  Particularly the one I took just before my 51st birthday)
 

18 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We needed this hard reset, have done for years, where you agree or not is of no real concern of mine. You're entitled to your opinion, but that's all it is, an opinion. Trying to pass it off as factual ain't the play.

No. And it wasn't a reset - it was a desertion.  A mutiny.

The players that won the CL in 2021 and got 74 ponts in 2022 needed this reset.  They ran - even Mount.
They saw the new guys and said Get me out of here.
Good judgement for footballers - I'm guessing it is even more ugly on the inside than the outside.

 

[look who stayed - a 39 yo Silva, injury jinxed Chilwell and James, Chalobah who seems to be indispute about his contract and wants out on a free, Gallagher and Broja neither of whom appeared under RA and both of whom seem to want out. Mutiny.]

[Mark Kelly]

14 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

No. And it wasn't a reset - it was a desertion.  A mutiny.

 

Good for them , they used to abandon Mutineers on an island with no visible means of support , now it's AC Milan amongst others.

Fuck em , sincerely , fuck em. 

[kev61]

16 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

It gets better , Pochettino took them all out to dinner after the Newcastle game and footed the bill himself. 

I wonder was it a McDonald's happy meal and then back to cobham where he hired a bouncy castle?.

[kev61]

21 hours ago, ROTG said:

Squad dear boy

Any manager worth his salt will improve a team without any investment on players.

Poch has got a squad full of potential and is making a pigs ear of it.I would get rid of him now......but but who do we bring in?...

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

Any manager worth his salt will improve a team without any investment on players.

Maybe TB should have hired Poch after TT rather than a nobody.

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

Poch has got a squad full of potential and is making a pigs ear of it.I would get rid of him now......but but who do we bring in?...

Not really, he's been give a bunch of players picked by Brighton scouts and supports the level they are playing at. Anything above 54 points this season will be a great feat. 

As for a replacement for Poch, you will not be getting any WC coaches with that squad.

Maybe Todd didn't sack Potter and he is really on Gardening leave and ready to rise like a phoenix from the flames, should Poch be removed or leave. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by ROTG

[Sciatika]

35 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Maybe Todd didn't sack Potter and he is really on Gardening leave and ready to rise like a phoenix from the flames, should Poch be removed or leave. 

There are plenty of Potters about. Managers who overperform with lesser squads will not necessarily do so with better squads. Also, I would avoid anyone highly praised by the pundits in British media. There is a reason they are pundits rather than actively involved in the game.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Not really, he's been give a bunch of players picked by Brighton scouts and supports the level they are playing at. Anything above 54 points this season will be a great feat. 

 

Going from 44 points to 54 points is a great feat.
Even more so if you eject the other half of the team before the season starts.
I'd like to think we can get 54 points, of the 6 teams we haven't played most are weak.
But purely on results so far we are on target for 47.