Chelsea 0 Southampton 1

[boratsbrother]

11 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

If Potter goes then Terry , Lamps and Czech isn’t a bad shout until end of season. 
I don’t think Simeone will take one foot out of a Spanish speaking league. He must of had offers. 

I want Potter to stay, but if he does go then I want someone in with new ideas, not stale old has-beens or ok but not great managers like Poch. Terry or Ballack for me!

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

Ten Hag has made such a huge impact on United. It really is impressive. You could see it straight away during their preseason how he had set up the team differently and their style of play. It's not like he's had an easy time either with the Ronaldo thing, Rashford being out of form, the Maguire situation, Sancho being out of sorts... it helps having someone as consistent as Rashford bagging goals though. 

Yesterday, if Sterling bagged those 2 goals, the feeling today could have been so much more positive.

Ten Hag is a strong personality and immediately put his imprint on the side from a mentality stand point, this is something we're sorely lacking under Potters tenure. This is a fundamental requirement at the top. Eventually it rubs off on the players and you see that in their performances. Sure, not all players may like it and it may ruffles feathers but that will ultimately separate those who are up for it and those who aren't. 

Of course Ten Hag has also come in with a very clear defined idea of the football he wants to implement, he's get in a couple of players that can help with that and we're seeing progressing being made after a bit of a rough start. 

Potter offers nothing of this sort and we're seeing the byproduct of that.

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

But I do think a keeper can make or break a coaches career. Kepas form was horrific during Lampards reign . Mendy arrived and things improved defensively . Then Mendy started falling apart, got injured and Kepa reclaimed his place. Neither are perfect tbh. Potter just has to pick the one who he thinks is more in form. It’s a bit Ray Clemence or Peter Shilton England scenario but with less talent involved!

There's nothing for Potter to pick really, Kepa is the number one option and rightfully so. If the intent is to build from the back like we do then Kepa is the only choice - in form or otherwise. Mendy simply isn't good enough at ground level with his feet, we've seen the ramifications of this several times where he's either directly cost us or at a minimum put us under the cosh. 

[NoblyBobly]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

There's nothing for Potter to pick really, Kepa is the number one option and rightfully so. If the intent is to build from the back like we do then Kepa is the only choice - in form or otherwise. Mendy simply isn't good enough at ground level with his feet, we've seen the ramifications of this several times where he's either directly cost us or at a minimum put us under the cosh. 

I think you’re over simplifying the keeper situation. MENDY became our number one did he not? He achieved that ( maybe through default) through Kepas dreadful form including shocking errors with his feet. MENDY had a really good spell but then also had a series of mistakes. He made those mistakes when he was our number one…they were in Premier League games not the Haribo Cup. His injury happened at some point so Potter had little choice but to pick Kepa. Kepas form really improved with some good performances and Potter has now kept him as first choice and preferred him to Mendy.  Personally I prefer an in form Mendy to an in form Kepa. Neither fills me with much confidence.
 

 

[NoblyBobly]

5 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I want Potter to stay, but if he does go then I want someone in with new ideas, not stale old has-beens or ok but not great managers like Poch. Terry or Ballack for me!

I’m much the same. My scenario was if we woke up this morning to the news that Potter had gone. Sadly there is no manager I can think of who can instantly turn this around or be a stick on success here. We are a very odd place right now. 

[NoblyBobly]

6 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

Yeah I remember but Ten Hag had implemented his style of play from the start and managed to get wins along the way shortly after that lean spell.

As much as we wish things had been different for Potter the fact is that, legitimately, supporters are pointing to a lack of identity from our team and he's not getting results either. 

I'd love to support Potter and have faith in his ability to turn things around but those 2 supporter concerns can't be dismissed.

It's gutsy to sideline players like Auba and C Ron. You better get wins afterwards and Ten Hag has but Potter hasn't. 

Fwiw, I don't think we're that far away from winning. A consistent goal scorer (like Auba could have been) may have helped us get there a lot quicker.

Kepa had 2 decent saves yesterday off the Badiashile error and then in the second half one other Soton attempt, but otherwise we looked far more likely to score than they did in the second half. So, no, I don't think wins are far away.

I live with a Man United supporter and know a few. The level of Hag out was similar to Potter out. They were mid table an shite. He patched together a couple of very uninspiring wins ( a draw against us) and very slowly he clawed his way back. Now sacking him would seem insane if not impossible..thy could still win the league!! My point is , opinions can change quite quickly. Let’s just assume that we beat Spurs , beat Dortmund and go on a 4 or 5 unbeaten run. Most on here would rotate  to ‘lets not be hasty he could have turned the corner’.  Some will have nailed their colours to the mast so hard they can’t turn , but as long as TB keeps giving him games to coach he’s still got a chance. 

[Trini_Blue]

49 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I live with a Man United supporter and know a few. The level of Hag out was similar to Potter out. They were mid table an shite. He patched together a couple of very uninspiring wins ( a draw against us) and very slowly he clawed his way back. Now sacking him would seem insane if not impossible..thy could still win the league!! My point is , opinions can change quite quickly. Let’s just assume that we beat Spurs , beat Dortmund and go on a 4 or 5 unbeaten run. Most on here would rotate  to ‘lets not be hasty he could have turned the corner’.  Some will have nailed their colours to the mast so hard they can’t turn , but as long as TB keeps giving him games to coach he’s still got a chance. 

I really do hope that it's not a game of chance like that. If the club thinks that he's doing a good job on the training ground by whatever standard they're comparing him to, and if the players seem on board, then I hope that's where the decision to keep him would be derived from. 

I really hope it's not as simple as "give him more time because Arteta and Ten Hag turned it around". Because, and I watched a lot of both teams, Arteta immediately imprinted his coaching style on Arsenal even before the results came and the same can be said of Ten Hag. 

It's not about the results alone you could literally see a different style of football with both managers.

[Michael Tucker]

33 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

It's not about the results alone you could literally see a different style of football with both managers.

Which you can't with us/Potter. It's a bloody shambles!

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I think you’re over simplifying the keeper situation. MENDY became our number one did he not? He achieved that ( maybe through default) through Kepas dreadful form including shocking errors with his feet. MENDY had a really good spell but then also had a series of mistakes. He made those mistakes when he was our number one…they were in Premier League games not the Haribo Cup. His injury happened at some point so Potter had little choice but to pick Kepa. Kepas form really improved with some good performances and Potter has now kept him as first choice and preferred him to Mendy.  Personally I prefer an in form Mendy to an in form Kepa. Neither fills me with much confidence.

Mendy became number number on the basis of Kepa not performing his overall keeping duties well enough on a whole initially. Since the ACON though Mendy has been dire on all levels, not helped by his apparent want of a contract that well and truly exceeds his ability and importance to the club. Despite this Mendy started the season as first choice under Tuchel, once Potter was appointed though it was one of the first changes made. And yes, while Mendy had a knee issue at the time his form up until that point was still validation enough to see him dropped. Kepa has came in and has performed considerably well to retain his place for most of the time since.

In a world where both keepers were to be fit, I'd still preference having Kepa over Mendy based on the how we're choosing to play. Both keepers have their pro's and con's, but given the direction of football we're choosing to play which sees our keeper being used as an outlet at ground level a lot more it's imperative they're comfortable with the ball at feet. Kepa average 40 touches per 90 which has him in the 89th percentile among other Premier League keepers this season. You simply can't have technically incumbent keeper such as Mendy see that much ball at ground level. It's been proven already with the mistakes he's made and how awkward he is generally speaking. 

If we played a brand of football that wasn't as reliant on our keeper being involved on the ball then Mendy would have a stronger case if you were to take him at his most inform version. 

Either way, neither keeper are our long term solutions to the position but I'm taking Kepa every day of the week as it stands with Mendy a prime candidate to be sold in the summer. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by xceleryx

[Mark Kelly]

Mendy's form nose dived in conjunction with his desire for a better contract , just like Mount's has. 

Funny that.

[NoblyBobly]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Mendy became number number on the basis of Kepa not performing his overall keeping duties well enough on a whole initially. Since the ACON though Mendy has been dire on all levels, not helped by his apparent want of a contract that well and truly exceeds his ability and importance to the club. Despite this Mendy started the season as first choice under Tuchel, once Potter was appointed though it was one of the first changes made. And yes, while Mendy had a knee issue at the time his form up until that point was still validation enough to see him dropped. Kepa has came in and has performed considerably well to retain his place for most of the time since.

In a world where both keepers were to be fit, I'd still preference having Kepa over Mendy based on the how we're choosing to play. Both keepers have their pro's and con's, but given the direction of football we're choosing to play which sees our keeper being used as an outlet at ground level a lot more it's imperative they're comfortable with the ball at feet. Kepa average 40 touches per 90 which has him in the 89th percentile among other Premier League keepers this season. You simply can't have technically incumbent keeper such as Mendy see that much ball at ground level. It's been proven already with the mistakes he's made and how awkward he is generally speaking. 

If we played a brand of football that wasn't as reliant on our keeper being involved on the ball then Mendy would have a stronger case if you were to take him at his most inform version. 

Either way, neither keeper are our long term solutions to the position but I'm taking Kepa every day of the week as it stands with Mendy a prime candidate to be sold in the summer. 

I’d go for Mendy personally. They are both seriously prone to brain farts when the ball is at their feet and under pressure, with Kepa having the edge historically ( but he has kind of cured this so far this season…whether Mendy is also improved in this discipline is hard to tell as we haven’t seen him this season)  . As a reflex shot stopper Kepa has the edge but for shots into corners or high in corners, looping shots, free kicks and dominating the area, collecting crosses, I go for Mendy. I also recall Kepa once having the worst or second to worst save ratio of all first choice keepers in the PL….one in two shots were going into the net. Considering his cost and apparent stature as a keeper , this was appalling. 
 

But it’s apples and oranges with those two. But the point being made was did Potter have a choice and did he make the right one? Your first post said there was no choice to make, but on this post you point out that one of the first changes Potter made was to make Kepa number one , when under Tuchel he was number two. So why not at least give the bloke a little credit for in your eyes , choosing the correct keeper? He hasn’t had a lot go right so far so at least give him that. 

[xceleryx]

25 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

But it’s apples and oranges with those two. But the point being made was did Potter have a choice and did he make the right one? Your first post said there was no choice to make, but on this post you point out that one of the first changes Potter made was to make Kepa number one , when under Tuchel he was number two. So why not at least give the bloke a little credit for in your eyes , choosing the correct keeper? He hasn’t had a lot go right so far so at least give him that. 

I've got not got issue giving Potter credit for selecting Kepa as number one and retaining him in that role, even though I think it was the easy and obvious decision to make at the time. Where I cannot give Potter credit however is the uptick in form Kepa has displayed, largely because it's known that keepers train separately from the main group with their own goalkeeping coaches. This is why when taking about Potter not having improved a player since his arrival I've made sure to exclude Kepa.

[NoblyBobly]

6 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I really do hope that it's not a game of chance like that. If the club thinks that he's doing a good job on the training ground by whatever standard they're comparing him to, and if the players seem on board, then I hope that's where the decision to keep him would be derived from. 

I really hope it's not as simple as "give him more time because Arteta and Ten Hag turned it around". Because, and I watched a lot of both teams, Arteta immediately imprinted his coaching style on Arsenal even before the results came and the same can be said of Ten Hag. 

It's not about the results alone you could literally see a different style of football with both managers.

Hiring ANY coach is a game of chance. Pick one that wouldn’t be. Do you think Arteta or Ten Hag would be a success here? What about Zidane, Ponch, Mourinho.  I think Potter does have a vision of what he wants players to do. He started pretty well and I got a glimpse of what possibly was to come. Then he started collecting injuries by the bucket load . Then he had lots of new players. Then he had lots of injured players coming back. This is good for us medium long term but I think it’s blurred his vision. He’s gone temporarily snow blind. Add to that zero rub of the green on pitch, some shocking ref decisions and voila!! We have a full blown crises. 
 

Hag,Arteta, Klopp, Ferguson….long lists of coaches having very dodgy starts. Now let’s at least look at Arteta because he’s the closest we got. Inexperienced coach, young, hope of sexy football, hired to big London club. You say you could see a good pattern early on, I say go back on YouTube Arsenal TV and check out the post match interviews with gooners for a long long time after Arteta was hired. It was comedy gold. Absolutely losing their shit with Arteta….” He’s clueless bro, he can’t coach, what’s he doing all week on the training ground bro, we are going to be relegated bro, Chelsea would have sacked him by now”. Honestly check it out. There was no hope, no future and certainly no pattern of play. 
 

Tbf, sacking coaches has worked for us in the past. We’ve been ridiculed for it but then we’ve shoved trophies in their face. So I’m not going to throw a fit if they sack him next week after Dortmund game. I know the score. But something inside me would love Potter to turn this around and shove it in their smug faces. 

[NoblyBobly]

2 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I've got not got issue giving Potter credit for selecting Kepa as number one and retaining him in that role, even though I think it was the easy and obvious decision to make at the time. Where I cannot give Potter credit however is the uptick in form Kepa has displayed, largely because it's known that keepers train separately from the main group with their own goalkeeping coaches. This is why when taking about Potter not having improved a player since his arrival I've made sure to exclude Kepa.

I’ll almost guarantee you that if Kepa had been throwing them in the net, juggling with the ball , trying to nutmeg forwards ( I have seen it) , barely moving as a shot flys past him , the mantra would have been “what is Potter doing with Kepa in training”.

Maybe he does certain stuff with a trainer such as reflex training, shot stopping, catching etc, but for a team like Chelsea that now religiously plays out from the back and moves the ball in triangles between keeper and outfield players ( a big feature at Brighton) , Potter will be very much in charge of that aspect. 

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I’ll almost guarantee you that if Kepa had been throwing them in the net, juggling with the ball , trying to nutmeg forwards ( I have seen it) , barely moving as a shot flys past him , the mantra would have been “what is Potter doing with Kepa in training”.

And I would say that anyone who had this line of thinking probably hasn't played the sport in an organised setting, and or is oblivious to fundamental training structures that virtually all clubs follow. Even when I played U/16 local league stuff keepers trained separately for large periods, the only time we'd see them with the main group was for shooting drills and general fitness work. 

9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Maybe he does certain stuff with a trainer such as reflex training, shot stopping, catching etc, but for a team like Chelsea that now religiously plays out from the back and moves the ball in triangles between keeper and outfield players ( a big feature at Brighton) , Potter will be very much in charge of that aspect. 

I don't disagree. It would make sense to have broader team requirements like patterns of play, tactical shape, and other things of that nature to be handled by Potter himself. While all the specific skills a goalkeeper needs to work on will be handled by specialised goalkeeping coaches, again makes complete sense. If anything it also highlights just how important it is to have a keeper that's naturally comfortable with the ball at feet and technically sturdy, they don't get the same opportunities to develop this part of their games during their careers like your regular outfield player would.