European Super League

[Bob Singleton]

Seems it's off and running again

❝FC Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Juventus have relaunched their plans to form a European Super League which could contain 60-80 teams.

The three continental giants were part of a group of 12 outfits that tried and failed to get the project off the ground in April 2021 when fans of the six English clubs involved protested the plans.❞

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomsanderson/2023/02/09/fc-barcelona-and-real-madrid-relaunch-european-super-league-plans-with-60-80-team-format/?sh=5b2146145531

 

 

[Bob Singleton]

From The Athletic (pay walled)

The organisers behind the European Super League have announced a revamped format for the controversial tournament, which would see 60 to 80 teams competing in a “multi-divisional competition”.

The new-look Super League would be based on “sporting performance” only with no permanent members.

The idea has already been dismissed by Javier Tebas, the president of La Liga, as the “latest attempt by big clubs to hijack European football”.

Bernd Reichart, the chief executive of the A22 Sports Management Group, which is behind the plans, said on Thursday that a revamped Super League would be based on sporting performance and not contain any permanent membership from any clubs.

Reichart added that A22 had consulted with nearly 50 European clubs since October last year and developed 10 principles based on that consultation which underpin its plans for the new-look league.

 

The new format would see the clubs involved play a minimum of 14 Super League matches per season, which Reichart claims would increase the “stability and predictability” of club revenues.

Reichart told German newspaper Die Welt: “The foundations of European football are in danger of collapsing.

“It’s time for a change. It is the clubs that bear the entrepreneurial risk in football. But when important decisions are at stake, they are too often forced to sit idly by on the sidelines as the sporting and financial foundations crumble around them.

“Our talks have also made it clear that clubs often find it impossible to speak out publicly against a system that uses the threat of sanctions to thwart opposition.

“Our dialogue was open, honest, constructive and resulted in clear ideas about what changes are needed and how they could be implemented. There is a lot to do and we will continue our dialogue.”

But the plans were immediately denounced by Tebas, who on Thursday tweeted a cartoon of ‘European football’ portrayed as ‘Little Red Riding Hood’, along with a wolf wearing a ‘Super League’ badge.

 

La Superliga es el Lobo de Caperucita. Ahora se disfrazan de competición abierta y meritocrática, pero debajo sigue habiendo el mismo proyecto egoísta y elitista. Que no nos cuenten cuentos.https://t.co/cqhLWStAJn pic.twitter.com/jmlYEAkLny

— LaLiga Corporativo (@LaLigaCorp) February 9, 2023

 

Tebas added: “The Super League is the wolf, who today disguises himself as a granny to try to fool European football, but HIS nose and HIS teeth are very big, four divisions in Europe?

“Of course the first for them, as in the 2019 reform. Government of the clubs? Of course only the big ones.”

A22 has challenged UEFA and FIFA’s right to block the formation of the Super League and sanction the competing clubs in the courts.

They have argued the governing bodies are abusing a dominant position under EU competition law.

UEFA has already dismissed A22’s idea of launching a revamped Super League, saying “the whole of European football opposes their greedy plan” after a meeting in November.

The Super League was announced in April 2021 but almost immediately collapsed amidst widespread condemnation from rival clubs, domestic leagues and European politicians.

Six English Premier League teams signed up to the ESL — Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur. All withdrew.

They joined AC Milan, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus and Real Madrid as founder members.


 

 

[Mark Kelly]

@Bob Singleton

Thanks Bob , did they mention when Barcelona would be getting the trophy?

[xceleryx]

26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

@Bob Singleton

Thanks Bob , did they mention when Barcelona would be getting the trophy?

I believe they're activating their trophy lever in 2025. 

[Ham]

The only real issue with the previous incarnation of SL was that it was a small closed shop. 

UEFA are bent and self serving.  They've fecked us over multiple times. They don't deserve our sympathy or respect.

I wouldn't be totally averse to a proper SL. More than 4 places for the major countries would sort the problem of only 4 of the big 6/7 qualifying. 

 

[boratsbrother]

I was strongly against the first shambolic attempt, but now it's open to relegation and promotion i'm fully in favour of the new proposals. But Man City can feck right off though and be banned from entering for at least 5 years.

 

Far from locking the door on the smaller clubs who won't join the league straight away, I see it as a good way for them to start progressing. Without the big guns, other teams will start competing for and winning titles which can surely only be a good thing and can then put themselves into position to join the super League. What's not to like about that?

 

[Mark Kelly]

I see it as a real opportunity for 60 of Europe's clubs to really up their carbon footprint. If it means I can't use my wood burner so Southampton can play away at Omonia Nicosia I'm all for it.

[Bob Singleton]

25 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I was strongly against the first shambolic attempt, but now it's open to relegation and promotion i'm fully in favour of the new proposals. But Man City can feck right off though and be banned from entering for at least 5 years.

 

Far from locking the door on the smaller clubs who won't join the league straight away, I see it as a good way for them to start progressing. Without the big guns, other teams will start competing for and winning titles which can surely only be a good thing and can then put themselves into position to join the super League. What's not to like about that?

 

The idea is that this new incarnation of a 'Super League' will run alongside (and therefore, I presume, ultimately replace the Champions League and possibly the other two leagues UEFA run). Clubs involved will not drop out of their national leagues.

I take it you didn't actually bother reading the proposals put forward... just commented on a headline as usual?

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I was strongly against the first shambolic attempt, but now it's open to relegation and promotion i'm fully in favour of the new proposals. But Man City can feck right off though and be banned from entering for at least 5 years.

Far from locking the door on the smaller clubs who won't join the league straight away, I see it as a good way for them to start progressing. Without the big guns, other teams will start competing for and winning titles which can surely only be a good thing and can then put themselves into position to join the super League. What's not to like about that?

I think it would be incredibly naive to believe this is how it'll actually remain longer term though. Give it 5 or so years down the line and the big players that have pushed for a super league to happen will be wanting to monopolise it for themselves. The current proposal is just a nice carrot too dangle to get things off the ground.  

There's absolutely no way a super league happens where it doesn't eventually favour the biggest backers. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

Personally, I’ll remain against a super league unless someone tells me domestic football is no longer possible for some bizarre reason. If the Super League were just a new European tournament alongside domestic football, then I’d be interested but that definitely isn’t their long term goal.

I understand the financial reasons for why some clubs would want to do it, but for me it would kill so much of what I love about football. It’s football for the ‘FIFA generation’ in my opinion.

I want the local rivalries. I want the clubs in the lower leagues to have the dream of making it to the premier league. I want that FA cup tie against the minnows. I want to be able to debate the weekends football on a Monday morning with my friends and colleagues, discussing all our teams having played against each other.

I don’t want a ‘glamour tie’ every week. I don’t want to have to travel around Europe every week to try and follow my side. I don’t want loyal fans to be priced out of football. I don’t want the kick off times to be adjusted for an American audience. I don’t want it ALL to be about money.

I know that it already isn’t, but I just want football to be football.

[Rob B]

Anything being pushed by Spanish and Italian clubs we should stay well clear of IMO.   Barca as an example are skint and just in it for themselves. 

That said, I suspect Boehly and Co are all over this - even more than Abramovich and Marina. 

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it…

[boratsbrother]

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I think it would be incredibly naive to believe this is how it'll actually remain longer term though. Give it 5 or so years down the line and the big players that have pushed for a super league to happen will be wanting to monopolise it for themselves. The current proposal is just a nice carrot too dangle to get things off the ground.  

There's absolutely no way a super league happens where it doesn't eventually favour the biggest backers. 

Champions League football has become very stale with the same select few being the only ones in with a chance year after year.

No threat at all from any East European teams these days. France has become a one team league and so too has Germany. The likes of Ajax, Feyenord, PSV are shadows of the clubs they once were. Rangers and Celtic can't compete. 

Imho, these new proposals are at least worth a  try to see if they can revitalise and improve European football. 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

7 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Champions League football has become very stale with the same select few being the only ones in with a chance year after year.

No threat at all from any East European teams these days. France has become a one team league and so too has Germany. The likes of Ajax, Feyenord, PSV are shadows of the clubs they once were. Rangers and Celtic can't compete. 

Imho, these new proposals are at least worth a  try to see if they can revitalise and improve European football. 

 

I do agree with your summary of the Champions League, but arguably the reason that has happened is money and so to set up a new competition based largely on lining the pockets of Barcelona and the former Italian giants is completely the wrong way to go.

I don't know what the answer is, but the problem you pose is definitely the one that needs solving.

[Mark Kelly]

I've been thinking about this and I think the best solution is the top ten sides in the Premier League , put £20M each in a pot , then Madrid play off with Barca , Juventus with Inter , then the winners of those games play off in a game , share the money and UEFA give the trophy to Barca and Messi gets player of the tournament.

[xceleryx]

12 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Champions League football has become very stale with the same select few being the only ones in with a chance year after year.

No threat at all from any East European teams these days. France has become a one team league and so too has Germany. The likes of Ajax, Feyenord, PSV are shadows of the clubs they once were. Rangers and Celtic can't compete. 

Imho, these new proposals are at least worth a  try to see if they can revitalise and improve European football. 

 

I don't necessarily disagree with this generalisation, however the answer isn't what's been put forward either. 

With the current proposal there's still going to be the same handful of sides that have traditionally competed for the Champions League that'll be doing likewise in any Super League. You really think Barca, Real Madrid, Juventus, etc are pushing this so hard in the interest of fairness or to even out the playing field? Of course not. It's purely driven by the financial disparity between their own domestic leagues and that of the Premier League - a lot of which is fault of their own particularly in Italy. 

You didn't hear about these clubs crying over the disparity when Madrid where signing the likes of Zidane, Kaka or Figo, or earlier when Italian sides were the ones spending big. Hell, PSG weren't all too bothered when they completely inflated the market when purchasing Neymar either. 

Even with what's come out right now there's no indication that Premier League sides will be taking part. And honestly, why would they? The Premier League have just secured a new 6 year partnership with Electronic Arts worth close to £500m, which is over double the current annual value. Not to mention the TV deal currently in place and other sponsorship. This right here is why the Super League is even a thing in the first place, don't let any of the other fluff that comes out convince you otherwise. 

[chara]

Some thoughts..over simplifications but...the European competitions grew from the idea of the League title winners in each country competing against each other, This concept was successful and meaningful for many reasons and additional less prestigious cup competitions emerged and again were successful.

Media coverage expanded, one of the main driving forces behind both the expansion and the money grabbing imho, as did qualification numbers leading to the present day distasteful pursuit of every penny that can be squeezed out of "European" competitions and manufactured World something something Champions/Cup etc etc played in less than accessible venues,,a foretaste of any future "inclusive" competitios I fancy.

As MBIB said in so many words if a Super League in any format emerges it will probably go the same way and dilute or completely destroy the game structure as we know it.

I'm all for change and progress but one of the reasons that I have little interest in MLS is the lack of tribalism and real identity of the clubs.

Like all/most of us I can look at say Hereford and recall great FA Cup battles or non League and lower league sides and have a knowledge however slight of their history and location...looking way ahead all this would be lost if all resources were focused on some ever expanding International "league".

Corporate greed will be the killer of our game.

[kev61]

There is no appetite  for silly competitions in the top tier of English football.

Play a second string in the the league cup and play a second string in the fa cup.

The league winners and the winners of the champions league is were it's at - the rest is greed.

[chrisb]

It now appears that FIFA and UEFA were in the wrong to try and stop this after an appeal by A22 (a company started by Barca). 
I’m pretty sure that after this ruling Barca, Real Madrid and others may well try to reignite interest in starting this up again. Due to recent updates to the Premier League owners charter English clubs would seem to have no chance of joining it.

 I personally don’t like the idea but I also don’t like UEFA or FIFA for their money grabbing hold on football.

[Ham]

1 minute ago, chrisb said:

It now appears that FIFA and UEFA were in the wrong to try and stop this after an appeal by A22 (a company started by Barca). 
I’m pretty sure that after this ruling Barca, Real Madrid and others may well try to reignite interest in starting this up again. Due to recent updates to the Premier League owners charter English clubs would seem to have no chance of joining it.

 I personally don’t like the idea but I also don’t like UEFA or FIFA for their money grabbing hold on football.

I have no love for the PL either for what they have done to us in recent years. 

[chrisb]

Just now, Ham said:

I have no love for the PL either for what they have done to us in recent years. 

Fully agree. Makes you wonder if they knew the ruling was wrong which is why they updated their charter to prevent any of their precious cows being milked elsewhere!

[Ham]

1 minute ago, chrisb said:

Fully agree. Makes you wonder if they knew the ruling was wrong which is why they updated their charter to prevent any of their precious cows being milked elsewhere!

DWMH has been saying for years that FFP is not legal.  I wonder whether there is any correlation between this finding and the FFP situation.

[Dwmh]

7 minutes ago, Ham said:

I have no love for the PL either for what they have done to us in recent years. 

But given a choice between the marketing team at PL and UEFA I still reckon that the best option would be for the PL to invite 7 or 8 big European teams into the Prem rather than have a separate ESL.

Most worrying though is that after 2 seasons in the wilderness will Chelsea get invited into an ESL?  My guess is no.
They totally Fxxxed us up (and I'm not talking about the PL here)

[Ham]

Just now, Dwmh said:

But given a choice between the marketing team at PL and UEFA I still reckon that the best option would be for the PL to invite 7 or 8 big European teams into the Prem rather than have a separate ESL.

Most worrying though is that after 2 seasons in the wilderness will Chelsea get invited into an ESL?  My guess is no.
They totally Fxxxed us up (and I'm not talking about the PL here)

Spurs got an invite 🤷🏻‍♂️

[chrisb]

Just now, Ham said:

Spurs got an invite 🤷🏻‍♂️

Every league needs a whipping team! 😂

[Dwmh]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

DWMH has been saying for years that FFP is not legal.  I wonder whether there is any correlation between this finding and the FFP situation.

Well both are about a Cartel operation so there is a link.
Of course the other big worry is that we have moved from being  the beneficiary of RA's charity limited under FFP to the Profit vehicle of outright capitalist Clearlake at a time when gifts to the club might not be punished.  Win Win for Newcastle and City.