Books worth a read

[chara]

@jasonb and @Dwmh

I have good friends over here who saw active service in Vietnam and there was never  a myth for me ... perspective...one particularly tough guy..not a wanna be..broke down on my shoulder one time as a terrible moment from his past flashed back..he was on the "real" river boats and got his life back on track eventually years ago but it never goes away...he recalled coming home and a stranger..girl..spitting on him in a bar...and all the "old guys" at the Veterans Post jeering at his generation for not beating the crap out of "gooks".

Another vet recounted  with great sadness that at the time of the Me Lai  (sorry spelling) incident he was 10 clicks away observing the same unreported behaviour.

A helicopter crew man with a quiet demeanour and soft warning words,,,and a friend who was picked to go to Korea ..a one to Vietnam one to korea line up as I recall...lucky?..maybe but he was posted to a tactical/strategic nuclear artillery type unit..with a ten mile range if called upon..think about that.

I was at SB and the Shed end during the same period...............

Edited November 9, 2023 by chara

[chara]

Sorry..just a quick add on to the above post...a meaningful issue for me..and should be for my generation and others....

A chara usual ramble through life found me in DC on trip from Cape Code to Florida..... visited the WALL...... by I reached the end I was in tears,,,and found out years later have a family member engraved on the WALL..a cousin of mine married a US serviceman and he was lost in Vietnam.

Cape Cod..working on the dock unloading fishing boats with a biker vet....."I was more frightened when I came home..I had a gun over there!"

Lest We Forget.....anyone anywhere........Sunday is not just a ceremony.

[Blue Moon]

Well put, Chara. Met a vet , now a senior lawyer, in San Francisco at a conference. He said he’d served at Me Lai. After an hour with him, my view of events changed. Justified? No, of course not. But understandable? Certainly …

I have a distant family member listed on the Wall … visited a few years ago, but (unlike you) found it less then “whelming”. Now, the Korea monument nearby - that was overwhelming.

[chara]

12 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Well put, Chara. Met a vet , now a senior lawyer, in San Francisco at a conference. He said he’d served at Me Lai. After an hour with him, my view of events changed. Justified? No, of course not. But understandable? Certainly …

I have a distant family member listed on the Wall … visited a few years ago, but (unlike you) found it less then “whelming”. Now, the Korea monument nearby - that was overwhelming.

Hey BM..we certainly have stepped in each others footprints over the years!....Mrs C visited DC a while back.....just spoken with her as I recalled her visit...her response to the Korea monument echoed yours.

I think it was time and place for me...would be about 1990 'ish and before the added monuments......what struck me was the so very quiet and respectful presence of people quietly walking the length of the WALL and unashamed but understated and private tears.

In contrast the cherry trees were in bloom as I made my way to the area....heart breaking.

The awful randomness ....my family member met my cousin in London posted to the Embassy I believe....they both returned to USA and through Ancestry we have been in touch with their family.... a drug convicted GI was escorted from the boonies camp and our relative moved into his makeshift living area...the roof collapsed overnight taking his life....still a casualty of the conflict.... I despair at times.

[chrisb]

“On Afghanistans Plains” by Barry Neil Alexander is a good read. He was a British army medical officer who deployed with the patrols so saw some heartbreaking sights. Written with genuine compassion for both sides, well worth a read if you want to know more about what it was actually like to be there.

[chrisb]

15 hours ago, chara said:

Lest We Forget.....anyone anywhere........Sunday is not just a ceremony.

Absolutely chara, I will be attending my local Remembrance Day as I do every year and afterwards we’ll be raising a glass to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. A very poignant day for me.

[Sciatika]

Me too

[Ham]

6 hours ago, chrisb said:

Absolutely chara, I will be attending my local Remembrance Day as I do every year and afterwards we’ll be raising a glass to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. A very poignant day for me.

 

26 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

Me too

Make sure you remove any poppies and British/English flags from the area so as not to upset ANTIFA..... Erm.... I mean peaceful protesters. 

[chara]

18 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

Make sure you remove any poppies and British/English flags from the area so as not to upset ANTIFA..... Erm.... I mean peaceful protesters. 

That'll Be The Day...........

[chara]

I recall being taken one year as a young kid to the Local ceremony at Edgware....just past the crossroad and below the church...at 11 all stood in silence  and a car tried to edge through the gathering..to be stopped by middle-aged guys quietly stepping in front of the vehicle.

For Stanley Mark.....Italy...1944.....24 years old.

Thank you Gentleman.

[Dwmh]

On 04/11/2023 at 16:13, Blue Moon said:

• Blue was the Colour: A Tale of Tarnished Love - Andy Hamilton's account of why he fell out of love with Chelsea. Can't disagree, I share a lot of his concerns.
•  

Not so much a book as a pamphlet, I read it in 2 short sit-downs.  Small book smaller pages.
Disappointed.  The early love affair with Chelsea is fine.  But his views on the owners are weird.  He calls ClearLake shady (they are truly in your face when it comes to openness, it is their sole plus point IMO).  He really does not feel comfortable about a Russian crook* at the club.  And he seems to have hated Bates.  Yet despite having gone to games since 1960 he doesn't have a word to say about the Mears family who bankrupted the club with debt to finance the building of a stand by a construction company owned by ...   ... the Mears family.  (oldest trick in the book in construction financing).
And while I sympathise with his becoming disillusioned with the current lot, he really makes no effort to explain why.

*  The reason I was always relaxed about RA at Chelsea was that from 2000-2005 my job was to analyse companies in Emerging Easter Europe, including Russia.  I read a great deal about Russian oligarchs and links with crime, and talked to a lot of people (including one Russian colleague who had worked for RA).  Prior to 2000 there was massive corruption as the west leaned on the drunken Yeltsin to give away assets to Russian Oligarchs who would then be paying fat fees to international banks for advice and for salting away their earnings.  There were a lot of links to crime.  Western favourite, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, was frequently reported as having crime links.   I was aware of no such links for Abramovich except those hinted at in the sporting pages of UK press.  RA's real crime as seen here was that he heard Putin's warning to the Oligarchs - stay out of politics and TV stations or I will come after you. 

Hamilton I always thought was funny especially on Clue and as a writer for Outnumbered.  I also listened to him for years on the Radio Show Newsquiz which could be funny but I always thought got its targets wrong too often.  For me Comedy is supposed to stand up for the little man AND those who are being unreasonably targeted right now.  Newsquiz, like a lot of BBC comedy, targeted the ones the BBC elites didn't like.  The same people the news braodcasts were having a go at were the targets of NewsQuiz.  Comedians are supposed to be smarter than that.

[chara]

@Dwmh.... Great post Droy...Thank you for the researched informed insight,

Disillusioned ?... strange word for a true fan...as youngsters we may be a bit Roy of the Rover'ish but as adults we should have no illusions...disappointment ,criticism and heartache maybe but if one is disillusioned perhaps the glory hunter badge should be awarded?

 

[boratsbrother]

16 hours ago, Dwmh said:

For me Comedy is supposed to stand up for the little man AND those who are being unreasonably targeted right now.  Newsquiz, like a lot of BBC comedy, targeted the ones the BBC elites didn't like.  The same people the news braodcasts were having a go at were the targets of NewsQuiz.  Comedians are supposed to be smarter than that.

Good post but I disagree with this bit.

For me, there should be no boundaries to comedy! Comedy should be able to  take the mick out anyone from any walk of life and be able to take a stereotype and exaggerate it for comedic purposes.

Harry Enfield was brilliant at doing that with characters like The Slobs, old gits, Scoucers, Loadsamoney, Tim nice but dim and many many more. Early Steve Coogan. Til Death Do Us Part. Falwty Towers. Billy Connelly. The brilliant and sadly underexposed Jerry Sadowitz. Great American comedians, Bill Hicks. Early Chris Rock . Dave Chappell. Lenny Bruce. 

What's gone so wrong with today's comedy is that it's become very safe and very right on with same limited number of predictable targets from anyone right of centre.

[chara]

Hmm comedy...if I recall correctly at the end of The Thomas Covenant series he defeats the Evil entity by laughing at it...says it all for me....Rudyard got it right but if you can take a humorous dig at yourself,,then indeed you are a Man my friend! (or Woman)

I recall reading the early Tom Sharpe books and laughing out loud but quite a while back...not sure if they would be as sidesplitting as I thought back then.

Edited November 12, 2023 by chara

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Good post but I disagree with this bit.

For me, there should be no boundaries to comedy! Comedy should be able to  take the mick out anyone from any walk of life and be able to take a stereotype and exaggerate it for comedic purposes.

Harry Enfield was brilliant at doing that with characters like The Slobs, old gits, Scoucers, Loadsamoney, Tim nice but dim and many many more. Early Steve Coogan. Til Death Do Us Part. Falwty Towers. Billy Connelly. The brilliant and sadly underexposed Jerry Sadowitz. Great American comedians, Bill Hicks. Early Chris Rock . Dave Chappell. Lenny Bruce. 

What's gone so wrong with today's comedy is that it's become very safe and very right on with same limited number of predictable targets from anyone right of centre.

I'm not sure we disagree.  I don't have any problem at all at comedians finding new targets, I don't think anyone needs protecting.
But targeting Russia for gags in the last 20 years when the media has been so distorted against them,  or Assange, or Corbyn, or Palestinians and Brand right now, is just going not just for the obvious, but for the victims of media bias.  Comedians are suposed to be smarter.
I'd even say that if Liverpool were treated by the media in the same way that football fans think of them, it would be not funny to target Liverpool.
A joke about Suella Braverman a month ago would have been worth a giggle and a deserved target,  a joke today has missed the point.

[chara]

3 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'm not sure we disagree.  I don't have any problem at all at comedians finding new targets, I don't think anyone needs protecting.
But targeting Russia for gags in the last 20 years when the media has been so distorted against them,  or Assange, or Corbyn, or Palestinians and Brand right now, is just going not just for the obvious, but for the victims of media bias.  Comedians are suposed to be smarter.
I'd even say that if Liverpool were treated by the media in the same way that football fans think of them, it would be not funny to target Liverpool.
A joke about Suella Braverman a month ago would have been worth a giggle and a deserved target,  a joke today has missed the point.

As with everything...including the comic greats..it's timing I think.

[boratsbrother]

6 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Good post but I disagree with this bit.

For me, there should be no boundaries to comedy! Comedy should be able to  take the mick out anyone from any walk of life and be able to take a stereotype and exaggerate it for comedic purposes.

Harry Enfield was brilliant at doing that with characters like The Slobs, old gits, Scoucers, Loadsamoney, Tim nice but dim and many many more. Early Steve Coogan. Til Death Do Us Part. Falwty Towers. Billy Connelly. The brilliant and sadly underexposed Jerry Sadowitz. Great American comedians, Bill Hicks. Early Chris Rock . Dave Chappell. Lenny Bruce. 

 

I somehow forgot to include the magnificent Sascha Baron Cohen on my list of fabs.

My brother will be very upset😁

[Thiago97]

Stewart Lee is fantastic and my personal favourite comedian. The wife got me tickets to see him in the new year for my last birthday, she doesn't really have too much idea in advance of what she will be watching on the night. I suspect it will be a long 2 hours for her!

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Stewart Lee is fantastic and my personal favourite comedian. The wife got me tickets to see him in the new year for my last birthday, she doesn't really have too much idea in advance of what she will be watching on the night. I suspect it will be a long 2 hours for her!

He's absolutely fantastic isn't he?

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

He's absolutely fantastic isn't he?

Yes he is. Such a clever guy the way he writes and performs his comedy.

He did a really good documentary called King Rocker which is worth checking out if not seen it. It's based on the band the Nightingales, and just exploring the history of the band and live of the lead singer Robert Lloyd.

I was not hugely familiar with the band, but still found it enjoyable to watch.

[chara]

Interesting Forum as ever and whilst I don't want to bring down the level of debate I also don't want to start a new forum of short shelf life line"debate" so....... stay with me...

Having time to waste being retired my Monday solace or celebration is tempered or reinforced by my trip to follow my favourite comics... I have a few "go toos" for a Monday (and the week)...although there are a handful of others I sort of follow, the Monday morning goes (On Go Comics!).... DOONESBURY. THE FAR SIDE,,,A handful every day and timeless..as is the next step PEANUTS....anyone else shameless enough to admit to any such questionable frivolous  enthusiasm?;;; as I said a few others but these are my main lift up fall backs!

[Dwmh]

15 minutes ago, chara said:

Interesting Forum as ever and whilst I don't want to bring down the level of debate I also don't want to start a new forum of short shelf life line"debate" so....... stay with me...

Having time to waste being retired my Monday solace or celebration is tempered or reinforced by my trip to follow my favourite comics... I have a few "go toos" for a Monday (and the week)...although there are a handful of others I sort of follow, the Monday morning goes (On Go Comics!).... DOONESBURY. THE FAR SIDE,,,A handful every day and timeless..as is the next step PEANUTS....anyone else shameless enough to admit to any such questionable frivolous  enthusiasm?;;; as I said a few others but these are my main lift up fall backs!

XKCD.com on my RSS feed so I don't miss it.
Rather nerdy but often clever.
https://xkcd.com/2228/

Machine Learning Captcha

[boratsbrother]

I watched All The Presidents Men on TV last night. Great film adaption of a great book.

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, chara said:

Interesting Forum as ever and whilst I don't want to bring down the level of debate I also don't want to start a new forum of short shelf life line"debate" so....... stay with me...

Having time to waste being retired my Monday solace or celebration is tempered or reinforced by my trip to follow my favourite comics... I have a few "go toos" for a Monday (and the week)...although there are a handful of others I sort of follow, the Monday morning goes (On Go Comics!).... DOONESBURY. THE FAR SIDE,,,A handful every day and timeless..as is the next step PEANUTS....anyone else shameless enough to admit to any such questionable frivolous  enthusiasm?;;; as I said a few others but these are my main lift up fall backs!

The Far side is absolutely hilarious and loved Peanuts especially the TV cartoon series. 

[Blue Moon]

2 hours ago, chara said:

....anyone else shameless enough to admit to any such questionable frivolous  enthusiasm?;;; as I said a few others but these are my main lift up fall backs!

Well, @chara, being a long time cat owner (if owner is the right word?) I must confess to a lifelong  love of the cartoon Fat Freddy’s Cat …