Official: Chelsea sign Mykhailo Mudryk on an Eight and a Half Year Deal

[Bob Singleton]

44 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I wonder how well Saka would be playing if he'd played 250 minutes since November

I didn't want to argue with @boratsbrother at the time as pretty much any discussion with him is futile, but I also wonder how good Saka would have looked playing for Ukraine, getting the sort of service Mudryk got?  I very much doubt he'd have got a goal and an assist under those circumstances (not that I'm saying Mudryk would have replicated what Saka did, had he been in an England shirt)

[Mark Kelly]

46 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Isn't that exactly what HAS happened.

They haven't played much for us, and that's fine by me. Ease them in

I mean come next season , we can't expect them to tear up trees , they're youngsters , they're learning on the job , if we want to be better we have to buy better players now not for three years down the line.

We could well find ourselves shorn of Mount , Gallagher , Kovacic  , Ziyech and Pulisic and trying to replace that lot with two kids just isn't going to cut it.

Unless of course , that's Boehly's plan , tear it all down and start from scratch 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I wonder how well Saka would be playing if he'd played 250 minutes since November

Well, let's see what he can do when he's fully fit and up to the speed of the PL. 

Are you forgetting lots of  other players didn't play any competitive games for 5 weeks. Did any of those other players not involved in the WC see their form and fitness fall off a cliff? No they didn't!

Also, nobody said anything about Mudryk's lack of sharpness when he came on and impressed against Liverpool.  In fact, it was the exact opposite with fans being impressed with what they saw. So 3 months on, why is fitness being used as an excuse for his play becoming worse as the weeks and months go by?

My concern is not his fitness, it's his first touch and control not being up to it in the fast paced EPL where he has is closed down fast and doesn't  get  the times and space he gets in other leagues or competitions. I.m also worried by his footballing brain. He seems to only have one instinct when he receives the ball and that is to run at defenders, rather than instinctively think which is the best option open for him when he receives the ball. 

 I thought Makalele was absolutely pants when we signed him with zero footballing ability. He went on to be one of my all-time favourite Chelsea players, so it shows how very wrong I have been about players. I hope Mudryk goes on to prove me just as wrong.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by boratsbrother

[chara]

4 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

It's Potter and his "mid-table good" mindset that needs changing not the players  , a draw against Everton would be splendid if we were Brighton but Graham , having surrounded himself with Ex Brighton staffers appears to think it's splendid for Chelsea too . 

And it isn't. 

That is the bottom line and has been all season....

GP is not the coach to "ease" any youngsters in...contrast Citeh and Foden... Frank had more idea than GP regarding young players even given that he had to make the best of a bad hand initially.

Lokaku?.... why bother?....how many "chances" will he be given?...... I'd rather have Tammy back and that isn't a good idea.

A top coach guides his own success not plays the comfortable margins and mid table security.

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

They're not supposed to be "top 4 Pl class" they're supposed to be players for the future with high ceiling for development , both of them ,

So how many seasons do you wait for over £100m worth of talent become a first team regulars?

[boratsbrother]

35 minutes ago, ROTG said:

So how many seasons do you wait for over £100m worth of talent become a first team regulars?

That is a very reasonable question to ask!

We only paid 18m for the 18 year old Santos. A player of that age and at that price is one we can afford to wait to develop over the next few years or so.  When you  pay £80m for a 22 year you should be looking for real quality fairly quicklly. Maybe not in the first season but certainly the second.  

Its been a very difficult year for the club as a whole. Let's try and give Mudryk and everyone else a pass for this season and see how things go next season with a good rest this summer and a pre season behind them.  

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

So how many seasons do you wait for over £100m worth of talent become a first team regulars?

I would imagine in the case of Mudryk we will try to give him a decent pre season and then start to integrate him in much the same way as City did with Foden. 

He at some point is going to have to prove he's worth the fee we paid but that is entirely up to him. 

Don't forget the greatest London side ever despite their lack of recent prizes and Champions league medals were also ready to pay the fee that we had to cough up so I would imagine he's got something about him. 

 But what do I know, I'm just some schmo on the Internet. 

[kev61]

7 hours ago, paulw66 said:

 

Simply astonishing. 

 

 

pftt...I agree Paul some people just haven't a clue.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Are you forgetting lots of  other players didn't play any competitive games for 5 weeks. Did any of those other players not involved in the WC see their form and fitness fall off a cliff? No they didn't!

Also, nobody said anything about Mudryk's lack of sharpness when he came on and impressed against Liverpool.  In fact, it was the exact opposite with fans being impressed with what they saw. So 3 months on, why is fitness being used as an excuse for his play becoming worse as the weeks and months go by?

My concern is not his fitness, it's his first touch and control not being up to it in the fast paced EPL where he has is closed down fast and doesn't  get  the times and space he gets in other leagues or competitions. I.m also worried by his footballing brain. He seems to only have one instinct when he receives the ball and that is to run at defenders, rather than instinctively think which is the best option open for him when he receives the ball. 

 I thought Makalele was absolutely pants when we signed him with zero footballing ability. He went on to be one of my all-time favourite Chelsea players, so it shows how very wrong I have been about players. I hope Mudryk goes on to prove me just as wrong.

Not to be crude or anything, but there's a huge f-ing difference between not playing a competitive game for 5 weeks and 3 months for one. The WC also ended on 19/12/22, the Premier League returned on 27/12/2022, so not only did everyone spend a quarter of the time off compared to Mudryk but they were already well back into the swing of things by the time he arrived and made his first appearance vs Liverpool on the 21/01/2023. 

It was well known he hadn't played for ages and was very much not in match shape. Just because he had a promising cameo vs Liverpool (against grandpa Milner and the defensively atrocious TAA) never meant he was going to keep up that sort of standard on a weekly basis. He only played in the first place because we had no Sterling, Pulisic, Ziyech, or Joao Felix. Our front three for that game was literally Gallagher, Mount and Havertz. Under normal conditions he'd have likely been on the sidelines getting the needed fitness work in to get him up to speed. He effectively joined a competition that was back in full swing, after an extended period off and no pre-season base behind him. The praise received was because he showed glimpses of the player he can be, nothing more nothing less.

A lack of fitness and match sharpness can all have a negative impact on the concerning factors you've raised. That's not to say that a fully fit and sharp Mudryk has the touch of Xavi, the control of Zidane, or the footballing brain of an Iniesta of course, and he likely still needs to work on these things moving forward as a younger player, but all of these aspects can be of a higher standard just by having a better foundation. 

As I said before there's little point drawing any conclusions on Mudryk right now, it's best saved for next season where he'll have a bit of familiarity with the league, his team mates, and most importantly a proper pre-season behind him that'll have him in a far better starting position than where he's begun now. 

[kev61]

11 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

I also wonder how good Saka would have looked playing for Ukraine,

He would have looked shite.How would Mount look playing for Man City or Liverpool,or any other team that plays him in the right position.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Michael Tucker
Unnecessary and offensive comment.

[kev61]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Not to be crude or anything, but there's a huge f-ing difference between not playing a competitive game for 5 weeks and 3 months for one. The WC also ended on 19/12/22, the Premier League returned on 27/12/2022, so not only did everyone spend a quarter of the time off compared to Mudryk but they were already well back into the swing of things by the time he arrived and made his first appearance vs Liverpool on the 21/01/2023. 

It was well known he hadn't played for ages and was very much not in match shape. Just because he had a promising cameo vs Liverpool (against grandpa Milner and the defensively atrocious TAA) never meant he was going to keep up that sort of standard on a weekly basis. He only played in the first place because we had no Sterling, Pulisic, Ziyech, or Joao Felix. Our front three for that game was literally Gallagher, Mount and Havertz. Under normal conditions he'd have likely been on the sidelines getting the needed fitness work in to get him up to speed. He effectively joined a competition that was back in full swing, after an extended period off and no pre-season base behind him. The praise received was because he showed glimpses of the player he can be, nothing more nothing less.

A lack of fitness and match sharpness can all have a negative impact on the concerning factors you've raised. That's not to say that a fully fit and sharp Mudryk has the touch of Xavi, the control of Zidane, or the footballing brain of an Iniesta of course, and he likely still needs to work on these things moving forward as a younger player, but all of these aspects can be of a higher standard just by having a better foundation. 

As I said before there's little point drawing any conclusions on Mudryk right now, it's best saved for next season where he'll have a bit of familiarity with the league, his team mates, and most importantly a proper pre-season behind him that'll have him in a far better starting position than where he's begun now. 

Mudryk is 22 ffs he is not a teenager.Granted he needs time to settle but he is a man.

He needs more time on the pitch,it's not as if he's replacing anyone who has been doing a good job for us.

I expect some people say he is not fitting into a "system",god help us all.

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Don't forget the greatest London side ever despite their lack of recent prizes and Champions league medals were also ready to pay the fee that we had to cough up so I would imagine he's got something about him. 

If my memory serves me, that is the same London club who coughed up 72m for an attacking winger / forward called pepe? 

MK - A bit of humour nothing more :0)

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Not to be crude or anything, but there's a huge f-ing difference between not playing a competitive game for 5 weeks and 3 months for one. The WC also ended on 19/12/22, the Premier League returned on 27/12/2022, so not only did everyone spend a quarter of the time off compared to Mudryk but they were already well back into the swing of things by the time he arrived and made his first appearance vs Liverpool on the 21/01/2023. 

It was well known he hadn't played for ages and was very much not in match shape. Just because he had a promising cameo vs Liverpool (against grandpa Milner and the defensively atrocious TAA) never meant he was going to keep up that sort of standard on a weekly basis. He only played in the first place because we had no Sterling, Pulisic, Ziyech, or Joao Felix. Our front three for that game was literally Gallagher, Mount and Havertz. Under normal conditions he'd have likely been on the sidelines getting the needed fitness work in to get him up to speed. He effectively joined a competition that was back in full swing, after an extended period off and no pre-season base behind him. The praise received was because he showed glimpses of the player he can be, nothing more nothing less.

A lack of fitness and match sharpness can all have a negative impact on the concerning factors you've raised. That's not to say that a fully fit and sharp Mudryk has the touch of Xavi, the control of Zidane, or the footballing brain of an Iniesta of course, and he likely still needs to work on these things moving forward as a younger player, but all of these aspects can be of a higher standard just by having a better foundation. 

As I said before there's little point drawing any conclusions on Mudryk right now, it's best saved for next season where he'll have a bit of familiarity with the league, his team mates, and most importantly a proper pre-season behind him that'll have him in a far better starting position than where he's begun now. 

If he was so unprepared to start a mid-season campaign, why didn't the club sign him and throw him out on loan until the end of the season. 

At 22 and 80million one would hope its polishing a diamond, rather than a rough-cut diamond from the mine.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

Mudryk is 22 ffs he is not a teenager.Granted he needs time to settle but he is a man.

He needs more time on the pitch,it's not as if he's replacing anyone who has been doing a good job for us.

I expect some people say he is not fitting into a "system",god help us all.

Firstly, what's his age got to do with the discussion on hand about his fitness?

You're so detached from reality about the importance of what a proper fitness foundation provides a player. Have you ever tried playing a competitive sport without a pre-season, it's grim. Now imagine that amplified by a thousand at the elite level, while also stepping football into a struggling side in a league that's half-way through, and without having kicked a ball or 3 months prior. 

As for development, it's not a linear process. Some develop early, some take a bit more time. 

The only sensible thing you've said is that he needs more time on the pitch, however for a variety of reasons, some of which are valid, that hasn't happened. 

Next season is the one that holds more personal weight for Mudryk. 

S 

[xceleryx]

16 minutes ago, ROTG said:

If he was so unprepared to start a mid-season campaign, why didn't the club sign him and throw him out on loan until the end of the season. 

At 22 and 80million one would hope its polishing a diamond, rather than a rough-cut diamond from the mine.

It wouldn't have been worth it to a club to take him on loan. They'd have had to take a player that hadn't played competitively for 3 months, give him virtually a full pre-season worth of fitness work mid-season, then gradually get him match fit before he'd be of real use. It would've given the loaning club only a small period at the back end of a season to make proper use of him. 

There's more upside in us keeping him here and getting him familiar with the club, his team mates, and control his conditioning and training as per our choosing readying him for next season and beyond.

As already discussed by others price isn't always reflective of immediate talent and productivity, sides also pay big sums of money for potential and future talent. And while 22 isn't the young end of what is generally considered a young player, he's still young enough to have a developmental spurt and end up the player some feel he'll be projected to be. As I said in my prior post to Kev, development isn't linear. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by xceleryx
Spelling.

[FrankLampard8]

6 hours ago, kev61 said:

I expect some people say he is not fitting into a "system",god help us all.

Out of curiosity what exactly is wrong with that as a comment?

Right now he has probably found minutes more difficult to come by as he is an out and out chalk on your boots winger. We have been playing a system where the wingbacks are our focal point and arguably our main attacking outlet. If you put Mudryk in the side he is either in spaces he isn't comfortable in (trying to play as a 10 or centre forward or getting in the way of Chilwell.

[RDCW]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Firstly, what's his age got to do with the discussion on hand about his fitness?

You're so detached from reality about the importance of what a proper fitness foundation provides a player. Have you ever tried playing a competitive sport without a pre-season, it's grim. Now imagine that amplified by a thousand at the elite level, while also stepping football into a struggling side in a league that's half-way through, and without having kicked a ball or 3 months prior. 

As for development, it's not a linear process. Some develop early, some take a bit more time. 

The only sensible thing you've said is that he needs more time on the pitch, however for a variety of reasons, some of which are valid, that hasn't happened. 

Next season is the one that holds more personal weight for Mudryk. 

S 

Mate, we have grown accustomed to your need to tell us your every thought in tedious detail, but there's no excuse for this kind of aggression. We have all returned to this site for healthy debate, but not for the arrogant, Droyesque posturing you display here. 

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

while 22 isn't the young end of what is generally considered a young player, he's still young enough to have a developmental spurt and end up the player some feel he'll be projected to be. As I said in my prior post to Kev, development isn't linear. 

Sounds quite Jesper Gronkjear esq.

[kev61]

On 30/03/2023 at 08:48, FrankLampard8 said:

Out of curiosity what exactly is wrong with that as a comment?

 

Because it assumes the  person employing that "system" knows what they're doing!.

[kev61]

1 minute ago, kev61 said:

Because it assumes the  person deploying that "system" knows what they're doing!.

 

[kev61]

On 30/03/2023 at 03:35, xceleryx said:

 

You're so detached from reality about the importance of what a proper fitness foundation provides a player. Have you ever tried playing a competitive sport without a pre-season it's grim. 

I could take offence - "detached from reality"....maybe - 'have I ever played a competitive sport without a pre - season'?...let me think(forgive me I'm so detached from reality)yes I have and would you  believe the sport was football.

 

Physical fitness is more important pre-season, the rest will follow if you are good at what you do and not held back by a coach who over analyses things.... sound familiar?

Honestly football is not as complicated as you think.An honest question...."have you ever played a competitive sport"?and if you did,what sport and did you find pre- season "grim"?.

[chara]

 Kev and celery...I know you both played different sports at a good (enviable) level and I truly respect and enjoy both your differing view points.

Fitness, Match fitness..mental fitness and mental match fitness are all different aspects of pre season fitness and effect season long game fitness.

Indeed the game is not as complicated as sometimes presented...any group of reasonably skilled players will soon work out how to play with each other...good coaching harnesses individual strengths rather than forces players to play in a way they feel inhibited...a system should be geared up to players ability to contribute not force square pegs etc.

By mental fitness I really should have said mindset ..even at the very modest level I played at times the end of season slog became a negative as opposed to the joy of the opening days.

 

[kev61]

2 hours ago, chara said:

 Kev and celery...I know you both played different sports at a good (enviable) level and I truly respect and enjoy both your differing view points.

 

 

Sorry  I think celery read it somewhere.

[Bob Singleton]

An assist...
 

... and almost another...
 

 

[Ham]

27 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

An assist...
 

... and almost another...
 

 

That young Spanish team were the most cynical bunch of play acting cheats I've seen at any level.  Diving and clutching their faces throughout when replays showed absolutely no contact. 

England beware.