Following Chelsea's loans

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Miguelito07 said:

Maatsen scored for Dortmund against A.Madrid. Into the SFs now. Seems like he is definitely leaving:

 

Was also kinda responsible for the goal conceded, and another in a recent league match IIRC.

Obviously has talent going forward but he's also pretty average on the defensive end of things, and in a team that already has issues with height and defending crosses/set pieces, adding a 5ft 6 attacking fullback into the mix wasn't ever going to help the cause. 

Edited April 17 by xceleryx

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Was also kinda responsible for the goal conceded, and another in a recent league match IIRC.

Obviously has talent going forward but he's also pretty average on the defensive end of things, and in a team that already has issues with height and defending crosses/set pieces, adding a 5ft 6 attacking fullback into the mix wasn't ever going to help the cause. 

So after nearly two seasons at the club, one your favorites with he need time quote Cucurella at 60m is head and shoulder above Maatsen?

[Mark Kelly]

58 minutes ago, ROTG said:

So after nearly two seasons at the club, one your favorites with he need time quote Cucurella at 60m is head and shoulder above Maatsen?

Well,  2" according to Wikipedia

[Sciatika]

We need income before June 30 for PSR. Like all clubs, I would imagine the club is already having informal discussions.

[chiswickblue]

28 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

We need income before June 30 for PSR. Like all clubs, I would imagine the club is already having informal discussions.

It seems the chopping block includes:

1. Hall (should be a done deal)

2. Ziyech (done deal)

3. Maatsen

4. Broja

5. Chalobah

 6. Gallagher

Not that this is my preference, but from the obvious club briefings to the media this seems to be the aim. Hopefully if they sell the first 4 players they at least will avoid selling Chalobah (perfect squad player) and Gallagher (now a hugely-important first team player). This is before we consider the need to someone get Lukaku and Kepa off the books, or at least not taking up international loan slots.

[xceleryx]

56 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

It seems the chopping block includes:

1. Hall (should be a done deal)

2. Ziyech (done deal)

3. Maatsen

4. Broja

5. Chalobah

 6. Gallagher

Not that this is my preference, but from the obvious club briefings to the media this seems to be the aim. Hopefully if they sell the first 4 players they at least will avoid selling Chalobah (perfect squad player) and Gallagher (now a hugely-important first team player). This is before we consider the need to someone get Lukaku and Kepa off the books, or at least not taking up international loan slots.

Lukaku will be somewhere on that list I imagine. 

I see us doing everything we can to get his costs, similar with Kepa as I don't see us going into next season with all three of Kepa, Sanchez and Petrovic. 

[chiswickblue]

44 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Lukaku will be somewhere on that list I imagine. 

I see us doing everything we can to get his costs, similar with Kepa as I don't see us going into next season with all three of Kepa, Sanchez and Petrovic. 

I think we have a better chance of shifting Lukaku, either to Saudi Arabia or Italy. Almost certainly we'll have to loan Kepa to someone willing to pay a portion of his wages, probably in Spain, meaning one less loan slot for one of the young players that needs a loan.

[Ham]

8 hours ago, ROTG said:

Sure TBSD will be rubbing their hand on the £20-30m pure profit they will make on him.

Whilst keeping Cucurella a £60m expenditure with a negative value on the books. 

It's a funny old game

Have you been watching our games this season? 

Cucurella hasn't let us down. He's been a lifesaver during Chilwell's travails. 

 

[Miguelito07]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Lukaku will be somewhere on that list I imagine. 

I see us doing everything we can to get his costs, similar with Kepa as I don't see us going into next season with all three of Kepa, Sanchez and Petrovic. 

There must be a reason why Boehly was out in Saudia Arabia recently. Can only imagine it has something to do with Lukaku and possibly Kepa?

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

I think we have a better chance of shifting Lukaku, either to Saudi Arabia or Italy. Almost certainly we'll have to loan Kepa to someone willing to pay a portion of his wages, probably in Spain, meaning one less loan slot for one of the young players that needs a loan.

Kepa only has a year left on his contract so I doubt we loan him out again, it'll likely be a full sale for a minimum fee. Lukaku will probably be more of a challenge. I can't see how Roma afford to keep him, and if he really is intent on remaining in Italy then it'll only further narrow the options. We also need to be realistic with what we can possibly demand and factor in how it'll impact our bottom line.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Miguelito07 said:

There must be a reason why Boehly was out in Saudia Arabia recently. Can only imagine it has something to do with Lukaku and possibly Kepa?

Who knows, quite possible. 

Could maybe be trying to shop Sterling around or even Ziyech.

[Ham]

56 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Kepa only has a year left on his contract so I doubt we loan him out again, it'll likely be a full sale for a minimum fee. Lukaku will probably be more of a challenge. I can't see how Roma afford to keep him, and if he really is intent on remaining in Italy then it'll only further narrow the options. We also need to be realistic with what we can possibly demand and factor in how it'll impact our bottom line.

If we can't find a suitable, sensible buyer, call his bluff and bring him back to his beloved Chelsea. 

 

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Ham said:

Have you been watching our games this season? 

Cucurella hasn't let us down. He's been a lifesaver during Chilwell's travails. 

 

Yes I have been watching the games. 

Not sure what your take here

Are you saying as a no2 and Chilwell's backup cucurella is worth the £60m the club paid for him?

[Ham]

Just now, ROTG said:

Yes I have been watching the games. 

Not sure what your take here

Are you saying as a no2 and Chilwell's backup cucurella is worth the £60m the club paid for him?

I'm saying that either is trusted as a starter by me. Chilwell's only issue is fitness.  Great player, when fit, otherwise. 

Cucurella is our player and we paid £60m for him. Why sell him for a loss?

Makes no sense. 

[Bison]

3 hours ago, Ham said:

I'm saying that either is trusted as a starter by me. Chilwell's only issue is fitness.  Great player, when fit, otherwise. 

Cucurella is our player and we paid £60m for him. Why sell him for a loss?

Makes no sense. 

Because he's terrible and makes players like Antony look unplayable. We've now lost Hall and Maatsen because of him (and Chilwell). How many more academy players are we going to lose because we signed a dud for 60m?

[xceleryx]

7 hours ago, Bison said:

Because he's terrible and makes players like Antony look unplayable. We've now lost Hall and Maatsen because of him (and Chilwell). How many more academy players are we going to lose because we signed a dud for 60m?

Hall isn't even a fullback for one and can't get into a Newcastle team. Maatsen is a slightly built 5ft 6 attacking fullback and shown nothing in the cameos he did feature in that suggested he was any type of solution. He's now doing well in a more attacking league that puts less emphasis on defence, and that ignores some of the defensive mistakes he's already made. 

You make it sound as if we've picked Cucurella over prime A.Cole. 

[ROTG]

11 hours ago, Ham said:

I'm saying that either is trusted as a starter by me. Chilwell's only issue is fitness.  Great player, when fit, otherwise. 

Cucurella is our player and we paid £60m for him. Why sell him for a loss?

Makes no sense. 

All I can say, should he see out his contract in 2028, he would have cost the club including the transfer fee £120m on a very average back up LB. 

Also in the 14 PL games he has played this season in the team have conceded 27 goals. 

[Rob B]

Cucurella is a player we should look to move on if we can IMO.

Yes he’s been slightly more solid this season but the bar was low and I still think he’s a liability defensively, either through poor positioning (erratically pressing and leaving gaps) or just lacking athleticism. 

He’s not fast, tall, strong and adds nothing going forward.  I’m not sure what his strengths are?

I know it’ll be a difficult sell, but I wouldn’t put it past these owners to be honest.  They surprised us all with the sales of Koulibaly, Mendy, Pulisic, Havertz etc and given he wasn’t one of their signings it wouldn’t surprise me if we tried to move him on.

Despite popular belief, we wouldn’t necessarily make a huge loss either.  A sale of £40m would clear his remaining book value.   But what is more likely is a loan move for a season whilst another £10m comes off his amortised cost and we sell him next summer for a small profit. 

[Ham]

5 hours ago, ROTG said:

All I can say, should he see out his contract in 2028, he would have cost the club including the transfer fee £120m on a very average back up LB. 

Also in the 14 PL games he has played this season in the team have conceded 27 goals. 

How many of those goals were the fault of Cucurella? I can remember one where he lost his player by lunging in.  That's it. 

 

[Sciatika]

To some degree, Cucrella's defensive problems (such as they are) are the same as Gusto's. They are expected to take it in turns to move forward and act as a wingback. We would not get goals like the opener against Leicester without that. However, it is very hard to train. I think JM made a point about this once. We need one or the other to move forward because it improves the width of the attack. Both Palmer and Mudryk like to move toward the centre of the pitch. However, the fullbacks need to react to each other and to the opposition to ensure there is adequate cover if the ball is turned over. Otherwise, they find themselves at the wrong end of the pitch. Colwill struggled with this, too. In some games, we see Gusto forward all the time in support of Palmer, and Cucurella seems to have less impact in an attacking sense. That was true against Everton. In a way, part of Palmer's success was a consequence of Cucurella covering for Gusto. It's a team game.

Edited April 18 by Sciatika

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Rob B said:

Cucurella is a player we should look to move on if we can IMO.

Yes he’s been slightly more solid this season but the bar was low and I still think he’s a liability defensively, either through poor positioning (erratically pressing and leaving gaps) or just lacking athleticism. 

He’s not fast, tall, strong and adds nothing going forward.  I’m not sure what his strengths are?

I know it’ll be a difficult sell, but I wouldn’t put it past these owners to be honest.  They surprised us all with the sales of Koulibaly, Mendy, Pulisic, Havertz etc and given he wasn’t one of their signings it wouldn’t surprise me if we tried to move him on.

Despite popular belief, we wouldn’t necessarily make a huge loss either.  A sale of £40m would clear his remaining book value.   But what is more likely is a loan move for a season whilst another £10m comes off his amortised cost and we sell him next summer for a small profit. 

Disagree IMO.

I think Cucurella is fine for what he is. I like his attitude, aggressive nature, and his both his versatility and ball use. Sure, there's moments where his aggressive nature puts him into positions that can mean he gets beaten, but he also wins a heck of a lot of ball. From a metric standpoint with other fullbacks this seasons in the league  he's in the 95th percentile for tackles and 92nd for tackles won, 74th for interceptions, 90th for blocks, 68th for aerial duels won. Pretty solid this season considering the nature of our team and defensive issues. 

If he can fine tune his game a little more to picking his moments of when to step out, maybe contribute a bit more going forward if desired tactically, then he's a solid player to have in the squad. 

Given Chilwell may also be an impending issue, along with several other areas of need we have to still focus on, selling Cucurella at this point is pretty low on the to-do list. Of course, like with most players, if an offer was to come in that was too good to refuse then we'd need to consider it but right now I don't see that coming. 

[RDCW]

39 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Disagree IMO.

I think Cucurella is fine for what he is. I like his attitude, aggressive nature, and his both his versatility and ball use. Sure, there's moments where his aggressive nature puts him into positions that can mean he gets beaten, but he also wins a heck of a lot of ball. From a metric standpoint with other fullbacks this seasons in the league  he's in the 95th percentile for tackles and 92nd for tackles won, 74th for interceptions, 90th for blocks, 68th for aerial duels won. Pretty solid this season considering the nature of our team and defensive issues. 

If he can fine tune his game a little more to picking his moments of when to step out, maybe contribute a bit more going forward if desired tactically, then he's a solid player to have in the squad. 

Given Chilwell may also be an impending issue, along with several other areas of need we have to still focus on, selling Cucurella at this point is pretty low on the to-do list. Of course, like with most players, if an offer was to come in that was too good to refuse then we'd need to consider it but right now I don't see that coming. 

 Cucurella is a better bet than Chilly now. Ben is never going to be long term fit at his age and is every bit a defensive liability as Cucurella is perceived to be. He got off to a very unfortunate start, but he is much better this season. If the coach was clearer about the tactical shape of the team he would be fine.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, RDCW said:

 Cucurella is a better bet than Chilly now. Ben is never going to be long term fit at his age and is every bit a defensive liability as Cucurella is perceived to be. He got off to a very unfortunate start, but he is much better this season. If the coach was clearer about the tactical shape of the team he would be fine.

Yeah, I think if we're weighing up futures Chilwell is probably the greater question mark right now. He'll be 28 at the end of the year and the first half of next season is likely to  determine his future moving forward. He really needs to stay injury free first and foremost. 

Don't think we're in a rush to make a decision on left back at this point in time, not when we've got other issues requiring attention first. 

[chara]

Hmm  Cucurella.... bit of a puzzle for me....can't fault his commitment or effort...too often seems to leave a player under his "eye" too much room on a break, well wide and it drives me crazy.. but certainly not the biggest issue in the squad,

The very serious injury issues at FB left The Poch in a bad position so for all I don't want him at SB for any longer than practical I do feel his pain. Losing two players who could both be starting FB's for the National side is hardly easy and replacing that level of player is difficult...Gusto has been remarkable taking into  account his age and experience but it has taken most of the season to get any sort of balance at the back..I said any sort..not balance.!

[ROTG]

On 18/04/2024 at 13:20, xceleryx said:

Disagree IMO.

I think Cucurella is fine for what he is. I like his attitude, aggressive nature, and his both his versatility and ball use. Sure, there's moments where his aggressive nature puts him into positions that can mean he gets beaten, but he also wins a heck of a lot of ball. From a metric standpoint with other fullbacks this seasons in the league  he's in the 95th percentile for tackles and 92nd for tackles won, 74th for interceptions, 90th for blocks, 68th for aerial duels won. Pretty solid this season considering the nature of our team and defensive issues. 

If he can fine tune his game a little more to picking his moments of when to step out, maybe contribute a bit more going forward if desired tactically, then he's a solid player to have in the squad. 

Given Chilwell may also be an impending issue, along with several other areas of need we have to still focus on, selling Cucurella at this point is pretty low on the to-do list. Of course, like with most players, if an offer was to come in that was too good to refuse then we'd need to consider it but right now I don't see that coming. 

@paulw66

now this is a strawman