Mauricio Pochettino leaves Chelsea by mutual consent

[martin1905]

5 hours ago, Dwmh said:

 

Thanks mate, like I say I have absolutely no idea how that world works, I'm a lowly train driver and never set foot, to work, in an office or ever sat at a desk.

Edited January 12 by martin1905

[chara]

31 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Thanks mate, like I say I have absolutely no idea how that world works, I'm a lowly train driver and never set foot, to work, in an office or ever sat at a desk.

Hmm...no such thing as lowly anything martin..... one of the few useful bits advice given to me as a younger man was..."I don't care if you are the CEO or the janitor...your job is to provide a service...and if you think you are more important than the janitor just see the difference you not doing your job is and when he doesn't do his."

 

[Blue Moon]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

I've lost all love for the modern game, it's boring as shit and the whole vibe is completely different from what it used to be. It's just not the same anymore and nowhere near as enjoyable going. I couldn't care less about the modern day footballer and have never felt so distanced from them and my club.

…

Since I loaned my season ticket for this season I've been going home and away watching Aldershot and its been absolutely brilliant, reminds me of what it used to be like going to football.

…

What I haven't seen is us playing a whole host of clubs from the football league and I would love to follow us all over this country as we start from the bottom and try to work our way back up. If nothing else the journey would be epic and life is all about the journey.

I know the feeling. That’s why I still support Cambridge United. If ever we were to play them, I think I’d have to stay away. Conflict of interest etc. Back in the day, they were at the top of the old second going down and Chelsea were going up. Odd to think what might have been. But in the dog days we got to see some really venerable grounds.

i also follow Sarfend with an old mate who’s a rabid supporter.  They play Aldershot 24 Feb. I’ll keep an eye out for you. Agreed, the atmosphere is magic.

[chara]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

I've lost all love for the modern game, it's boring as shit and the whole vibe is completely different from what it used to be. It's just not the same anymore and nowhere near as enjoyable going. I couldn't care less about the modern day footballer and have never felt so distanced from them and my club.

I've followed us for years all over Europe and seen us win everything.  After Munich I always said that was it, we'd reached the pinnacle and it was beyond my wildest dreams as a Chelsea fan. Nothing can ever top that night, it's impossible. 

Since I loaned my season ticket for this season I've been going home and away watching Aldershot and its been absolutely brilliant, reminds me of what it used to be like going to football.

You'll have to take me at my word for what I'm about to say but I genuine wouldn't mind us being shafted because of FFP and being kicked out of the Premier league all the way down to league 2. I've watched us play and beat everyone across an entire continent. What I haven't seen is us playing a whole host of clubs from the football league and I would love to follow us all over this country as we start from the bottom and try to work our way back up. If nothing else the journey would be epic and life is all about the journey.

Agree but for me it's more like I've lost my affection for the game and for MY Chelsea.

[Bones]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

There are different types of investors.  If you look up Clearlake's marketing and track record it is clearly a hugely aggressive Hedge Fund with very ambitious targets for rates of return.  Typical returns for its various funds are 30% per annum.  In practice that means:

• Massive fees for the managers so that actual returns before fees are even higher than 30%*
• Investment on the basis that 40-50% per annum returns are feasible
• and acceptance that a few will go bust
• 30% a year compound  means 69% in 2 years, 120% in 3 years, 271% in 5 and 1279% in 10 years.
• Getting out early is as critical as tripling your money.
• A solid return of 10% a year is a complete disaster for Clearlake (but not other investors)
• It's end investors are likely extremely diversified with their money in Clearlake adding a little bit of high risk spice to an otherwise very boring and safe portfolio.  They accept the risk
• But Clearlake's business model depend on offering spice to justify their fees*
• 10 year low risk investments cannot be held by Clearlake - they will dump them and reinvest in something riskier
• Better to dump for  £1000m now and reinvest the cash than wait 12 months to get £1200m next year

 

* A boring fund manager might take 0.5% fees.  An Active manager / Hedge Fund might take 5% & 10% of profits.

In other words Clearlake's management are walking with their feet in concrete if they hang on to a Chelsea primed for slow growth with a priority of just staying in the Prem.
But there are plenty of other specialist investment funds that might want that investment if  it can be bought cheaply

 

Well yes.  Two types i guess.  If only we could choose.
Asset Stripper - offer £600m for a quick sale, flog off the best players for £400m, move to share grounds with QPR in the Championship and redevelop the ground for about £1 billion (CPO I know, but these will be the Rachmans of the investment world).

Highly geared "Private Equity".  These funds buy stable assets, cut costs, borrow huge amounts against the assets, and trust that the cash flow of the business will pay down the debt.  Jim Ratcliffe has made his fortune at Ineos with that approach, specialising in the oil and Chemical sector.  Older members may recall Lord Hanson did the same through his vehicle, Hanson Trust.  As well as individuals (you could argue Bates was doing much the same) there are specialist Private Equity funds.

The idea is that a 10% return is boring.  But borrow 80% at 7% then you are paying 5.6% of the full investment in interest, keeping 4.4% but only funding a fifth of it.  (Buy to let with a loan if you like).  If all goes to plan you are making a 22% return.  Perhaps much more.  (or perhaps you are Fxxxed.  It is a different type of high risk to Clearlakes approach)

For both types, getting in at the right price is crucial.
For the Gearing, banks or bond investors have to be reassured that their loans have a reasonable chance of being repaid and that the management will take a cautious low risk approach.  Jim Ratcliff - sure - he has done it many times.  TB&Egg?  Forget it.

Forget about another Growth investor.  If Clearlake wanted to spend another £billion they couldn't without breaking FFP.  It might be possible to just call the legal bluff that FFP is, but if Newcastle won't do it, I can't seen a Chelsea owner doing it.
Asset strip or cost management - these are the only option.
Clearlake is unable to do either.

Very good analysis.

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I've lost all love for the modern game, it's boring as shit and the whole vibe is completely different from what it used to be. It's just not the same anymore and nowhere near as enjoyable going. I couldn't care less about the modern day footballer and have never felt so distanced from them and my club.

I've followed us for years all over Europe and seen us win everything.  After Munich I always said that was it, we'd reached the pinnacle and it was beyond my wildest dreams as a Chelsea fan. Nothing can ever top that night, it's impossible. 

Since I loaned my season ticket for this season I've been going home and away watching Aldershot and its been absolutely brilliant, reminds me of what it used to be like going to football.

You'll have to take me at my word for what I'm about to say but I genuine wouldn't mind us being shafted because of FFP and being kicked out of the Premier league all the way down to league 2. I've watched us play and beat everyone across an entire continent. What I haven't seen is us playing a whole host of clubs from the football league and I would love to follow us all over this country as we start from the bottom and try to work our way back up. If nothing else the journey would be epic and life is all about the journey.

This is the trend with more than just football though in fairness, it's the whole generational shift and the big part sports science and alike plays in the modern day. Individually has been coached out of players, and in terms of football it's really shown with the way the game has changed with the passing of the guard. 

I think a lot of us have been fortunate to witness arguably the peak of a lot of sports. 

[Sciatika]

11 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I've lost all love for the modern game, it's boring as shit and the whole vibe is completely different from what it used to be. It's just not the same anymore and nowhere near as enjoyable going. I couldn't care less about the modern day footballer and have never felt so distanced from them and my club.

I've followed us for years all over Europe and seen us win everything.  After Munich I always said that was it, we'd reached the pinnacle and it was beyond my wildest dreams as a Chelsea fan. Nothing can ever top that night, it's impossible. 

Since I loaned my season ticket for this season I've been going home and away watching Aldershot and its been absolutely brilliant, reminds me of what it used to be like going to football.

You'll have to take me at my word for what I'm about to say but I genuine wouldn't mind us being shafted because of FFP and being kicked out of the Premier league all the way down to league 2. I've watched us play and beat everyone across an entire continent. What I haven't seen is us playing a whole host of clubs from the football league and I would love to follow us all over this country as we start from the bottom and try to work our way back up. If nothing else the journey would be epic and life is all about the journey.

I  sometimes feel that the game has become mundane and is being ruined by micromanagement, especially the fan's experience. Sometimes, I would like to descend a couple of leagues to recover some of the thrill of being closer to the players and to smell the mixture of sweat and linament. It would be nice if a goal given could be celebrated without a bunch of incompetents mulling over whether one person's toe was ahead of another's shoulder. My problem with that is how I tell if that is a response shared by younger people who have not yet had the experiences I have had - those who are still to see their first trophy, who genuinely love being part of a huge crowd cheering and singing together. I have always thought that you can only support one club, but mainly because I don't have the energy to support two. Each to their own. I watch the women and, though I enjoy it, it's a different game. Women are not men with different hormones. They are constructed differently. The ACL thing is a clue. So their game has to be allowed to evolve to suit them. There are the youth sides, I suppose, but the crowds are very small. Maybe the solution is an Aldershot.

[My Blood Is Blue]

I’ve said this a few times recently, but reading some of the posts I feel I have to throw my thoughts in again and have tried to explain and capture how much football has changed and how that’s hurt me so much. Dramatic? Maybe, but I genuinely am falling out of love with this former sport…

 

I find myself grappling with a sense of loss for the football I once loved so passionately. In my youth, it was a genuine love affair, a connection with the sport that thrived on the authenticity of the game. The thrill of goals, the excitement of each match, and the drama that unfolded were all palpable because they were real, played by individuals whose passion mirrored my own.

As I reminisce, I recall the simplicity of those days – a week defined by the outcomes of weekend matches, occasionally analysed by a handful of former players with genuine insights. The game was about 11 players pitted against 11, a clash of power, speed, and natural talent. Tactical nuances were present, but they didn't overshadow the joy of watching players simply play, unfettered by the excessive analysis that characterises today's football landscape.

Now, however, the essence is lost. Football has become an overanalysed spectacle, where formations are as numerous as letters in the alphabet. Celebrating a goal is tinged with apprehension, as the joy is overshadowed by the wait for a remote room of officials to decide its validity through VAR scrutiny. The rush of adrenaline and unbridled joy has given way to fear and dread, eroding the very core of what made football captivating.

This discontent isn't anything to do with Chelsea’s form; it's a lament for the modern state of top-level football. The desire to showcase knowledge, the influx of obscene money, and the shift towards appealing to a new generation obsessed with stats and automated decisions have all played a part. It's akin to being in a relationship that has evolved, where the shared thrills have dissipated, and the connection no longer elicits the heart-pounding joy it once did.

If football were my wife, I'd find myself reluctantly acknowledging that we've grown apart. The landscape has changed, and seeing her no longer elicits the same emotions it once did. I'd yearn for an amicable split, cherishing the memories, and hoping to remain friends, seeing each other occasionally to reminisce about the time when our relationship was pure, unadulterated joy.

[Blue Moon]

Totally agree: the thin end of the wedge was corporate hospitality, then all-seater stadiums, then “family-friendliness”, now it’s VAR … I feel a certain bereavement for the game I once loved, to the point where I am losing my love of the top-level game. For instance, if we’d had VAR in ‘66, would Hurst’s goal have stood? Arguably not. And Badiel and Skinner would have had to sing “We can’t win the cup, but we still keep dreaming”. Perhaps we should enforce the same rules on all levels of football - after all, there’s a lot of standing at Maidenhead, no hospitality, and certainly no VAR … people say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one …

[Mark Kelly]

In fairness the introduction of VAR is the only thing standing in the way of us never getting a penalty in real time at the hands of the institutionally biased referees. 

[Sciatika]

Erm?

[Ham]

Interesting quote from Pep.

Something along the lines of the final third in football being about talent as opposed to coaching. 

You can see why any coach here would struggle. 

 

[Bison]

5 hours ago, Ham said:

Interesting quote from Pep.

Something along the lines of the final third in football being about talent as opposed to coaching. 

You can see why any coach here would struggle. 

He says one thing and believes another. 

I've seen Man City score the cut back from the byline goal a million times to know a lot of things they do is heavily rehearsed.

Talent is ultimately the most important thing but even that needs some level of framework. Our problem is players low on talent like Mudryk aren't being coached. We have to pick a struggle, it can't be both. 

[east lower]

13 minutes ago, Bison said:

He says one thing and believes another. 

I've seen Man City score the cut back from the byline goal a million times to know a lot of things they do is heavily rehearsed.

Talent is ultimately the most important thing but even that needs some level of framework. Our problem is players low on talent like Mudryk aren't being coached. We have to pick a struggle, it can't be both. 

Generational talent got them the win on Saturday but when you watch them play you can see that they are a very well coached side. 
 
They have patterns, when one player decides he needs to do something different there’s invariably someone who fills the place/space he’s in. 
 
We’re nowhere near that, heck we struggle with a basic triangle or give and go. The only bloke I saw give a pass, see the bloke he gave the pass to was going to struggle to get a pass off to anyone else, and then get himself into a position for the player to pass to was a 39 year old. 

[Mark Kelly]

3 hours ago, east lower said:

Generational talent got them the win on Saturday but when you watch them play you can see that they are a very well coached side. 
 
They have patterns, when one player decides he needs to do something different there’s invariably someone who fills the place/space he’s in. 
 
We’re nowhere near that, heck we struggle with a basic triangle or give and go. The only bloke I saw give a pass, see the bloke he gave the pass to was going to struggle to get a pass off to anyone else, and then get himself into a position for the player to pass to was a 39 year old. 

Don't forget Palmer.

Previously coaches by Guardiola of course.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Don't forget Palmer.

Previously coaches by Guardiola of course.

And one thing I've noticed with Palmer is how many touches he has to take to be able to get passes completed.

That's not necessarily down to him,  it's the lack of availability of other players for him to actually play-off. He does some wonderful things such as that flat-foot flick over the defender and a spin to get onto, great when it comes off.

[Dwmh]

1 minute ago, east lower said:

And one thing I've noticed with Palmer is how many touches he has to take to be able to get passes completed.

That's not necessarily down to him,  it's the lack of availability of other players for him to actually play-off. He does some wonderful things such as that flat-foot flick over the defender and a spin to get onto, great when it comes off.

Patterns of play.  City players know exactly where they need to be at any moment and so it is easy to find them first or second touch.  Chelsea players don't.  

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Dwmh said:

Patterns of play.  City players know exactly where they need to be at any moment and so it is easy to find them first or second touch.  Chelsea players don't.  

I wonder why that is ?

Oh yeah.

[east lower]

37 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Patterns of play.  City players know exactly where they need to be at any moment and so it is easy to find them first or second touch.  Chelsea players don't.  

Quite, but they have a more than competent Head Coach and staff.

[jasonb]

Funnily enough I am not against Poch for this season at least .

He has made a few strange substitutions and weakened team line ups.

On the second it might be the trainers are saying the players need more rest, not sure on how the science works.

Petrovic seems a good find, Palmer is a revelation and Poch played him from the start.

Nkunku our biggest summer purchase seems a dead duck forcing us to make Broja and Jackson adapt thier games.

Enzo - Caicedo - Gallager midfield is not really working though they have all had good moments.

The defence barring Petrovic has also been questionable though maybe after having some time together may be showing signs of improvement.

FFP is coming home to roost just look at statements from Newcastle and is it possible that Emma H. has read the writing on the wall and decide to move before the post RA period hits the women's team.

 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Another vote of confidence for Poch.  Poor guy.  I guess he is homing that Fabrizio is as ill-informed as he has always been

[Max Fowler]

 

 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

26 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

 

If it went suddenly very downhill this season and we plummet back down towards the bottom, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see the owners sack Poch and ‘bring Jose home’. I can completely see how they would view it as an easy win and it would be, but only for a short time as he isn’t the manager he once was and this squad is not in any way suited to him.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

If it went suddenly very downhill this season and we plummet back down towards the bottom, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see the owners sack Poch and ‘bring Jose home’. I can completely see how they would view it as an easy win and it would be, but only for a short time as he isn’t the manager he once was and this squad is not in any way suited to him.

It’s irrelevant how “past it” he is. Yes he’s no longer the best manager in the world; yes he also likely isn’t the best fit for these players, or could he be? There aren’t that many “top managers” available. In that context and if Poch gets sacked, Jose stacks up well on a number of key issues and would make a lot of sense. Noone in support of his return thinks it will be a long-term project.