Official: Chelsea sign Nicolas Jackson on an 8 Year Contract

[ROTG]

35 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

At 21 he turned professional.  
The Drogba theory implies that we should be signing every amateur 20 year old in France to find the next Drogba.  A low return strategy I suspect.

Spot on. 

Lukaku, D Forfana , Jackson all the new Drogba. 

Time for all to leave Drogba comparison in the bin where it belongs because Drogba is a legend. 

 Jackson is nearer an Adebayor than Drogba 

[paulw66]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

 

Time for all to leave Drogba comparison in the bin where it belongs because Drogba is a legend. 

 

the point i am making is that if you look at Drogba's contribution at the same point, he'd have been written off by most of you by now too 

edit - not comparing the players, but comparing the situations. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by paulw66

[ROTG]

53 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

It is simply making a point at where the two were in their respective careers. Drogba was far maturer than Jackson is now, both in age and or professional terms.

Jackson made his professional debut 2 years ago. Age 20.

Drogba made his professional debut aged 21, five years before joining Chelsea.

Difference being Drogba was being scouted by many of the top teams in Europe before JM signed him

Edited November 8, 2023 by ROTG

[ROTG]

5 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

the point i am making is that if you look at Drogba's contribution at the same point, he'd have been written off by most of you by now too 

edit - not comparing the players, but comparing the situations. 

Drogba never played like Adebayor, unfortunately Jackson is Adebayor will a bit more pace.

[paulw66]

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Drogba never played like Adebayor, unfortunately Jackson is Adebayor will a bit more pace.

Did you watch Drogba at 22? 

Playing in the French second division? Thought not. 

[Mark Kelly]

9 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Did you watch Drogba at 22? 

Playing in the French second division? Thought not. 

Playing Right back I believe 

[Bison]

I like Jackson. I definitely think there is a player there that can develop into a very useful squad player if not the bonafide number 1 option.

The one thing I really want him to work on is his ball striking/shooting technique.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bison

[martin1905]

I personally love everything about him and the criticism he has received, mostly online, is laughable.

He's played a handful of games for us and shown more than enough promise. With better finishing he could, maybe should, have nearly been into double figures for the season, already. Obviously his hat trick helps his stats massively but if anyone had said he'd score 5 goals in his first 8 starts before a ball was kicked we'd all have taken that.

He's inexperienced and very raw but his potential is huge. His energy, stamina, work rate is absolutely phenomenal and I see a very bright future for him. 

The only problem with Nicolas Jackson is that he should never have been the only striker we bought in the summer and clearly that's not on him.

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Bert19 said:

I agree totally. If I were Poch, i'd be telling him that his job is to be involved less 40 yards from goal and focus on hitting the 6 yard line as much as he can whenever we're in possession.  

I have to admit that the lack of tactical nous Poch is showing at times is a concern.  (Given the importance of getting some wins, building confidence and getting this team League-ready, i'd like him to be a bit more pragmatic in his approach and for us to spend a lot less time playing like we have against Forest/Villa/Brentford). 

I wouldn't necessarily say Jackson needs to just plonk himself upfront and stay there, there is merit to dropping deeper to either receive the ball or simply to create space for others to move forward into at times. Where I think Poch has to maybe step in a little more is just with getting Jackson to keep it simple. If he's going to drop deep to get a touch, that's all it should be. Drop, receive the ball, lay it off quickly, and then turn to create a run from deep etc. Not receive the ball and then try and dribble through 2-3 players before being disposed.

[ROTG]

10 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Did you watch Drogba at 22? 

Playing in the French second division? Thought not. 

Did you watch Jackson before we signed him? I can't remember anyone mentioning him when he was on Bournemouth's shopping list even thought we were looking for a striker and opted for D Forfana which sums things up nicely. 

No I didn't watch Drogba at 22,  Steve Walsh probably did, However Drogba's name was being linked with the best in Europe when we signed him.

As I said before, the Drogba comparison should be binned where it belongs and all should accept we have a £30 striker who level is a number two at a top club which basically tells you where our club is now. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by ROTG

[martin1905]

10 hours ago, ROTG said:

Did you watch Jackson before we signed him? I can't remember anyone mentioning him when he was on Bournemouth's shopping list even thought we were looking for a striker and opted for D Forfana which sums things up nicely. 

No I didn't watch Drogba at 22,  Steve Walsh probably did, However Drogba's name was being linked with the best in Europe when we signed him.

As I said before, the Drogba comparison should be binned where it belongs and all should accept we have a £30 striker who level is a number two at a top club which basically tells you where our club is now. 

What have you seen, in 8 starts that makes you come to that conclusion?

He's 23 and started 8 games in the premier league, scoring 5 goals so a very, very good return. He could and should have had a good few more too but for a young player coming in from a new country, who is very raw and inexperienced I think he deserves a little time.

I'll tell you what I see which makes me very excited about his future,  if you think I'm wrong, please explain your reasoning.

He's very quick.

He works very hard.

He's good technically.

He presses like an animal.

His attitude appears to be very good, he doesn't give up, he doesn't hide, he just keeps going.

His link up play, when he had support from Nkunku, albeit in pre season, was superb.

He is very good at beating his man and bringing the ball forward, admittedly he often does too much but that's a combination of trying too hard to impress, poor decision making and a serious lack of support at times.

He isn't afraid to put himself about and has shown he is happy to get stuck into the physical side of the game.

His movement of the ball is very good. He needs to work on his timing of his forward runs but he is constantly on the move  not just trying to get in behind but he is happy pulling out wide and dropping deep. He's very, very active.

He has shown to be very composed Infront of goal, I can forgive him for some of his misses, given his age, inexperience and the fact that he has moved to a new league, in a new country and started 8 games and is playing in this side, I don't really need to go into details with what I'm getting at there.

Personally I believe confidence is key to most footballer's. Especially strikers. Especially young, inexperienced strikers who just moved countries to play in a different league.

I think I've covered it all, the reasons I think Nicolas Jackson at 23 with 5 goals in 8 starts, in a new league,  has shown enough to at least be given a bit of time and not written off.

So, if you would please explain your reasoning as to why you don't think he will ever be good enough I'd really appreciate it.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by martin1905

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

What have you seen, in 8 starts that makes you come to that conclusion?

He's 23 and started 8 games in the premier league, scoring 5 goals so a very, very good return. He could and should have had a good few more too but for a young player coming in from a new country, who is very raw and inexperienced I think he deserves a little time.

I'll tell you what I see which makes me very excited about his future,  if you think I'm wrong, please explain your reasoning.

He's very quick.

He works very hard.

He's good technically.

He presses like an animal.

His attitude appears to be very good, he doesn't give up, he doesn't hide, he just keeps going.

His link up play, when he had support from Nkunku, albeit in pre season, was superb.

He is very good at beating his man and bringing the ball forward, admittedly he often does too much but that's a combination of trying too hard to impress, poor decision making and a serious lack of support at times.

He isn't afraid to put himself about and has shown he is happy to get stuck into the physical side of the game.

His movement of the ball is very good. He needs to work on his timing of his forward runs but he is constantly on the move  not just trying to get in behind but he is happy pulling out wide and dropping deep. He's very, very active.

He has shown to be very composed Infront of goal, I can forgive him for some of his misses, given his age, inexperience and the fact that he has moved to a new league, in a new country and started 8 games and is playing in this side, I don't really need to go into details with what I'm getting at there.

Personally I believe confidence is key to most footballer's. Especially strikers. Especially young, inexperienced strikers who just moved countries to play in a different league.

I think I've covered it all, the reasons I think Nicolas Jackson at 23 with 5 goals in 8 starts, in a new league,  has shown enough to at least be given a bit of time and not written off.

So, if you would please explain your reasoning as to why you don't think he will ever be good enough I'd really appreciate it.

 

Hard to disagree.  You make him sound like  Costa without goals, and I think there is something in that (and he has a few goals now!)
There is an anger in the way he plays that I like (a bit like Richarlison, or er Costa).
Precisely the opposite of Morata who failed on a lot of the points in your list.

[Lump Of Celery]

14 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I wouldn't necessarily say Jackson needs to just plonk himself upfront and stay there, there is merit to dropping deeper to either receive the ball or simply to create space for others to move forward into at times. Where I think Poch has to maybe step in a little more is just with getting Jackson to keep it simple. If he's going to drop deep to get a touch, that's all it should be. Drop, receive the ball, lay it off quickly, and then turn to create a run from deep etc. Not receive the ball and then try and dribble through 2-3 players before being disposed.

In the few games I have managed to watch e sometimes drops a little too deep unnecessarily  and ends up behind the midfielders and attackers, then there is nobody upfront for them to play in. I think that is a result of him being a bit too eager and trying to do too much at times, so I agree Poch should tell him to keep his game a little simpler

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

His attitude appears to be very good, he doesn't give up, he doesn't hide, he just keeps going.

His link up play, when he had support from Nkunku, albeit in pre season, was superb.

I agree with your overall post. Regarding the first quoted point he does need to cut out the silly yellows, I think he got another v Spurs. Re Nkunku the problem is looking at the current team set up (Enzo, Caiceido, Connor, Palmer, Sterling all pretty nailed on starters) Jackson is maybe the most at risk of losing his place in the Starting 11 to accommodate Nkunku 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Lump Of Celery said:

I agree with your overall post. Regarding the first quoted point he does need to cut out the silly yellows, I think he got another v Spurs. Re Nkunku the problem is looking at the current team set up (Enzo, Caiceido, Connor, Palmer, Sterling all pretty nailed on starters) Jackson is maybe the most at risk of losing his place in the Starting 11 to accommodate Nkunku 

The spurs yellow was a mistake by the ref (it was a tough game to ref).  The pull on its own was nothing and happened a dozen times in the game - often to attacking players.  The subsequent blow up by Colwill may have influenced the decision.

[ROTG]

20 hours ago, martin1905 said:

What have you seen, in 8 starts that makes you come to that conclusion?

He's 23 and started 8 games in the premier league, scoring 5 goals so a very, very good return. He could and should have had a good few more too but for a young player coming in from a new country, who is very raw and inexperienced I think he deserves a little time.

I'll tell you what I see which makes me very excited about his future,  if you think I'm wrong, please explain your reasoning.

He's very quick.

He works very hard.

He's good technically.

He presses like an animal.

His attitude appears to be very good, he doesn't give up, he doesn't hide, he just keeps going.

His link up play, when he had support from Nkunku, albeit in pre season, was superb.

He is very good at beating his man and bringing the ball forward, admittedly he often does too much but that's a combination of trying too hard to impress, poor decision making and a serious lack of support at times.

He isn't afraid to put himself about and has shown he is happy to get stuck into the physical side of the game.

His movement of the ball is very good. He needs to work on his timing of his forward runs but he is constantly on the move  not just trying to get in behind but he is happy pulling out wide and dropping deep. He's very, very active.

He has shown to be very composed Infront of goal, I can forgive him for some of his misses, given his age, inexperience and the fact that he has moved to a new league, in a new country and started 8 games and is playing in this side, I don't really need to go into details with what I'm getting at there.

Personally I believe confidence is key to most footballer's. Especially strikers. Especially young, inexperienced strikers who just moved countries to play in a different league.

I think I've covered it all, the reasons I think Nicolas Jackson at 23 with 5 goals in 8 starts, in a new league,  has shown enough to at least be given a bit of time and not written off.

So, if you would please explain your reasoning as to why you don't think he will ever be good enough I'd really appreciate it.

 

Basically because he is just an average striker who if not for and injury last January would have been applying his trade at Bournemouth. As many have written on this forum, which might have included you, that  at best Jackson is a number 2 at a club like Chelsea unless players like Jackson are the new level the club is content with.

You mention the 5 goals he has scored, Against Luton he scored in the 75th Minute when Chelsea were 2-0 up, Against Burnley  he scored in the 74th minute when Chelsea were 1-3 up,  Against the spuds it too him over 20 minutes to score against 9 men "75 minute" it then took him another 20mintes 95th & 97th to score at which time the spud down two players for 40 minutes.

I do not have anything against Jackson, he is just a very one dimensional player, who might  even get into double figures this season, however he will never become a player who will have the ability to be a game changer in a split second or will ever put the fear into a back four unless the team is down to 9 players and holding a backline half way up the pitch.

If Jackson was such prospect, why are the gang of three allegedly looking for a new number 1 striker?

Oh Yes - Don't forget to keep putting £3:80 in the jar each week 😀

 

[paulw66]

On 09/11/2023 at 00:58, ROTG said:

 

As I said before, the Drogba comparison should be binned where it belongs and all should accept we have a £30 striker who level is a number two at a top club which basically tells you where our club is now. 

As I said before, it is not a comparison with Drogba the player, but more so the situations.

If this forum was around in its current state, with its current members, back in 2004, then Drogba would have been written off by many, by now. 

Or put it another way, if we'd bought a 26 year old Drogba this summer and he had the same first few games as he did back in 2004, then he'd be being written off. 

5 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

If Jackson was such prospect, why are the gang of three allegedly looking for a new number 1 striker?

 

 

You've answered your own question. 

Many (including me) have said that in ideal world he would be our number 2, with a more experienced player leading the line as first choice. 

[ROTG]

16 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

As I said before, it is not a comparison with Drogba the player, but more so the situations.

If this forum was around in its current state, with its current members, back in 2004, then Drogba would have been written off by many, by now. 

Or put it another way, if we'd bought a 26 year old Drogba this summer and he had the same first few games as he did back in 2004, then he'd be being written off. 

You've answered your own question. 

Many (including me) have said that in ideal world he would be our number 2, with a more experienced player leading the line as first choice. 

Nice twist, however where were the club in the league when Drogba joined?

Like comparing apples and oranges.

Bit of a head scratcher why the club didn't keep an experience strike like Lukaku to show him the ropes. BOOM! 🤯 😀

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

 

Bit of a head scratcher why the club didn't keep an experience strike like Lukaku to show him the ropes. BOOM! 🤯 😀

The only ropes that Lukaku would show him would be the ropes of sausages ready for his perpetual barbecue 

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

The only ropes that Lukaku would show him would be the ropes of sausages ready for his perpetual barbecue 

I bet he would have score a lot more goals even with a daily top up from pizza hut. 

[paulw66]

44 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Nice twist, however where were the club in the league when Drogba joined?

 

Exactly. In 2004 the club was in a much stronger position, so Drogba came into a much easier situation. Better, more experienced players around him, less pressure (as we were winning), less goalscoring burden as many players were chipping in. 

The scenario Jackson has walked into is far tougher. 

[ROTG]

54 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

The scenario Jackson has walked into is far tougher. 

Let’s call it quits. 
Jackson would never had been considered  between 2004 and 2021. Just tell you how low the bar has gone. 
 

Enjoyed the debate without sledging.  Have a nice weekend 👍

[paulw66]

32 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Jackson would never had been considered  between 2004 and 2021

Nor would a 22 year old Drogba, but you are making an entirely different point here. 

That said, in the era specified, we have signed plenty of inferior CFs to Jackson...di Santo, Pizzaro, Kezman, Remy, Pato, Falcao, Higuain, Batsuyai, even arguably Shevchenko, and a few others, Morata, Torres? He's halfway to overtaking Werner's two year PL goal tally too. 

[Dwmh]

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

As I said before, it is not a comparison with Drogba the player, but more so the situations.

If this forum was around in its current state, with its current members, back in 2004, then Drogba would have been written off by many, by now. 

Or put it another way, if we'd bought a 26 year old Drogba this summer and he had the same first few games as he did back in 2004, then he'd be being written off. 

This forum is pretty much in its current state, albeit the aggressive tone of the "Intelligent Forum" where fools were not tolerated has been replaced with the new Conviviality Forum.  MT and I are here but most are gone.  Gronkjaer76 and his sausages too.

And certainly Drogba was written off by many despite scoring at almost the same goals per start rate of the next two years.
It happens.  anyuone with a big price tag or seen as a  big name has enormous expectations from day 1.
On the other hand the much cheaper 21  yo, Kalou in 2006, was seen as a talent just waiting to show what he could do.  He got 2 years grace and only in his third year did people start to wonder what that might be.

Jackson is 22, and just 3 months older than Broja who is definitely getting Kalou treatment so far.

[martin1905]

6 in 9 starts. Rubbish.

[Rob B]

Interested to see what Poch does when Nkunku returns.   It’s at a time where Sterling and Jackson are hitting some form, and Palmer has been exceptional. 

Jackson is actually on course for 20 PL goals this season.  Quite incredible really.