Official: Chelsea sign Nicolas Jackson on an 8 Year Contract

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

Can we take it that you are Lukaku sympathiser?

Not at all, however most people who supported the club thought his poop did not smell when he first came to the club and was sent out on loan and was knocking in goals for fun, there was also and outcry when JM sent him packing.

I wonder if you would have been so vocal if he had not done the interview and was giving his all even if he wasn't hitting the expected goals tally?

Now it time for Lukaku to leave the building like Elvis 

Back to Action Jackson 13-Aug onwards will tell how good a player he is, friendlies are meaningless in the big picture

[Mark Kelly]

27 minutes ago, ROTG said:

 

Back to Action Jackson 13-Aug onwards will tell how good a player he is, friendlies are meaningless in the big picture

They weren't meaningless last season when Arsenal hammered us , it set the tone perfectly for what was to follow.

[Thiago97]

35 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Not at all, however most people who supported the club thought his poop did not smell when he first came to the club and was sent out on loan and was knocking in goals for fun, there was also and outcry when JM sent him packing.

I wonder if you would have been so vocal if he had not done the interview and was giving his all even if he wasn't hitting the expected goals tally?

Now it time for Lukaku to leave the building like Elvis 

Back to Action Jackson 13-Aug onwards will tell how good a player he is, friendlies are meaningless in the big picture

The perils of going early old bean……well going early when you have never seen the lad play to be more precise. More to lose than gain in those situations, even more so when living as a forum caricature .

[ROTG]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

They weren't meaningless last season when Arsenal hammered us , it set the tone perfectly for what was to follow.

What sacking TT after 100 days when the team was 6 and 5 points of the top and bringing GP and his bunch of nobodies. It all history

13-Aug is when players and coaches should be judged

[ROTG]

18 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The perils of going early old bean……well going early when you have never seen the lad play to be more precise. More to lose than gain in those situations, even more so when living as a forum caricature .

maybe it will be a case of egg on my face my old mucker, and i be happy to hold my hand up. He has 8 year to prove me wrong 🤡

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

A lot also used their personal dislike and the price tag involved to draw their conclusion before even kicking a ball. 

I'll put this to you, do you think we did enough to maximise Lukaku's strengths? 

Given our history of shoehorning players I'd be surprised if you think we did. 

The dislike for him was not the biggest problem IMO. It was the price tag in relation to his quality, which is a perfectly sound metric to use in order to evaluate a player. Kepa Arrizabalaga would have been a fine transfer at £20m and £60k/week. He’s a bloody awful signing at £70m and 110k/week. 

You can’t discount the cost to bring a player when evaluating him. It’s an absolute key metric. So yeah, of course people would have laughed at the idea of buying a donkey for £97,5m. 

As for your question if we did enough to maximise his output, no probably not. But even if we did, almost £100m for such a limited player is ridiculous. His yearly cost to the club was under the terms something like £37m/year. That’s almost 8% of our total revenue 2021/22! You simply cannot take risks such as these, absolute fucking madness. Add on Kepas cost to us (£18m/year) and you realise that those two transfers seriously cripples us. Then add Koulibaly (£21m) and Sterling (£27m) and all of a sudden those four players are something like 20% of our yearly revenue. That is absolute madness. 

[xceleryx]

14 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

The dislike for him was not the biggest problem IMO. It was the price tag in relation to his quality, which is a perfectly sound metric to use in order to evaluate a player. Kepa Arrizabalaga would have been a fine transfer at £20m and £60k/week. He’s a bloody awful signing at £70m and 110k/week. 

You can’t discount the cost to bring a player when evaluating him. It’s an absolute key metric. So yeah, of course people would have laughed at the idea of buying a donkey for £97,5m. 

As for your question if we did enough to maximise his output, no probably not. But even if we did, almost £100m for such a limited player is ridiculous. His yearly cost to the club was under the terms something like £37m/year. That’s almost 8% of our total revenue 2021/22! You simply cannot take risks such as these, absolute fucking madness. Add on Kepas cost to us (£18m/year) and you realise that those two transfers seriously cripples us. Then add Koulibaly (£21m) and Sterling (£27m) and all of a sudden those four players are something like 20% of our yearly revenue. That is absolute madness. 

TBF his price tag was less to do about his quality as an overall player and more what to do with what he offered as an out and out goalscorer - which his record supports. We certainly weren't paying the fee we did and expecting a striker with a complete game like Harry Kane for example. If anyone was, then that's on them for being daft in the first place. 

I'm not discounting the cost so much as trying to provide some context as to why he was valued accordingly. The shortage of proven goalscorer generally speaking, the lack of those available, being in his prime, proven in the Premier League, and just had two excellent seasons at Inter Milan. While I do agree we overpaid, I can also understand why he was valued as he was by Inter Milan and why we paid it.

I agree the financial outlay as a whole was an awful overpay, and it's a deal we shouldn't be trying to replicate ever again, but alas that's also part and parcel of the supply and demand within football. When you see players like Caicedo for example being bandied about at £80m+ after one solitary good season, it's not as illogical to presume an actual established and proven player may go for more. 

Either way it's obviously done now and all we can do is hope we can clear him off the books sooner rather than later.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by xceleryx

[Sleeping Dave]

38 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

 

I'm not discounting the cost so much as trying to provide some context as to why he was valued accordingly.

 

The context that is relevant is that Inter wasn’t even ready to pay 50% of his original fee 12 months later. 

[kev61]

21 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

I wonder if you would have been so vocal if he had not done the interview and was giving his all even if he wasn't hitting the expected goals tally?

I didn't see the interview so I can't really comment.I always thought he was over rated (and certainly not worth the ridiculous contract we gave him) hence my comment he wasn't that good even at his best.

Time to accentuate the positive and minimise the negative with our new look team old toot.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

Time to accentuate the positive and minimise the negative with our new look team old toot.

Let's wait until 13-Aug to see where the positives are and if Action Jackson starts, before you overcook the blarney on the fella

[kev61]

37 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Let's wait until 13-Aug to see where the positives are and if Action Jackson starts, before you overcook the blarney on the fella

You know what I like your style.A cynic in my own image.

Unfortunately you are like a banshee that appears when there is an impending death.

I think there is a hint of Irish ness in you...."old mucker" and "Blarney" ?

[ROTG]

3 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Unfortunately you are like a banshee that appears when there is an impending death.

 

So long as nobody tries to chop their fingers off I can go with the spirit 😀

[CarefreeMuratcan]

Thought he looked really good in both opening games. His pace is incredible, someone we can pass the ball to in confidence, who can receive through balls to be one on one with the keeper or receive to then run passed defenders. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Thought he looked really good in both opening games. His pace is incredible, someone we can pass the ball to in confidence, who can receive through balls to be one on one with the keeper or receive to then run passed defenders. 

He's been very good I think without any fantastic level of service , worked his socks off yesterday again . 

[Rob B]

Given his work rate and ability to receive the ball on the half turn, I think he could do a decent job as a 10 in the absence of Nkunku and Carney.

Then allows us to get another goal threat on the pitch.  Whether that’s Broja or A N other who knows.

We also need to ditch the whole Colwill/Chilwell LB / LW experiment. 

[johnnybozo]

Just 442 it with Jackson and Broja/Nkunku/Pigeon Boy.

Calamity Sanchez

James/Gusto Silva Colwill Chilwell

Noni Enzo Caicedo Mudryk

Jackson Pigeon

 

Must be worth a shot.

[Thiago97]

Early signs very promising with Jackson, whilst I think its important to remember how young and inexperienced he is.

I picked up on comments JFH said when talking about Jackson ahead of the Luton game. His comments were generally positive, but he implied that he was getting too involved and doing too much as a CF, rather than concentrating on making sure he was in the best position to score goals.

It's still early days, but he might have a point. His comments reminded me of how Olly Watkins game has changed since Emery come in. I have long been a fan of Watkins, pre Emery he was constantly putting himself about, moving out wide and chasing the ball down and was involved in everything positive that Villa did. He was a great team player and constant threat as a No9.

Emery came in and has slowly changed his game. He does not want him as involved in the play and has got him to focus more on getting into scoring positions, whilst making sure the attacking players around him create and delivery the ball to him in those scoring positions. You can see the benefits of this when you look at his goals return pre Emery and now.

I suspect this is what JFH was getting at with Jackson. I have no doubt he will score goals here, but maybe he needs to be a little more selfish and focus on playing more centrally with less involvement. Let the opportunities come to him, rather than trying to force them through his own efforts.

[My Blood Is Blue]

15 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Early signs very promising with Jackson, whilst I think its important to remember how young and inexperienced he is.

I picked up on comments JFH said when talking about Jackson ahead of the Luton game. His comments were generally positive, but he implied that he was getting too involved and doing too much as a CF, rather than concentrating on making sure he was in the best position to score goals.

It's still early days, but he might have a point. His comments reminded me of how Olly Watkins game has changed since Emery come in. I have long been a fan of Watkins, pre Emery he was constantly putting himself about, moving out wide and chasing the ball down and was involved in everything positive that Villa did. He was a great team player and constant threat as a No9.

Emery came in and has slowly changed his game. He does not want him as involved in the play and has got him to focus more on getting into scoring positions, whilst making sure the attacking players around him create and delivery the ball to him in those scoring positions. You can see the benefits of this when you look at his goals return pre Emery and now.

I suspect this is what JFH was getting at with Jackson. I have no doubt he will score goals here, but maybe he needs to be a little more selfish and focus on playing more centrally with less involvement. Let the opportunities come to him, rather than trying to force them through his own efforts.

Maybe we should get JFH in to work with Jackson and our other strikers?

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Maybe we should get JFH in to work with Jackson and our other strikers?

Probably wouldn’t hurt. 
It’s a tricky one in many ways. I think this is what Tuchel wanted to do with Lukaku , but I don’t think that’s what Lukaku wanted.

From a team perspective, it’s probably more advantageous to have a CF constantly involved and contributing. Yet you look at Haaland, some games he is almost non existent, yet scores 2 goals.

Personally, whilst I fully accept Haaland is a great goalscorer. I don’t think he is enjoyable to watch and actually find him quite a boring footballer. Yet, he is often the difference between winning and not winning. Which is also something we need from a player.

Maybe a case of trying to get a blend of both during games. I just thought JFH comments were interesting and I could see where he was coming from. 

[xceleryx]

15 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

Probably wouldn’t hurt. 
It’s a tricky one in many ways. I think this is what Tuchel wanted to do with Lukaku , but I don’t think that’s what Lukaku wanted.

From a team perspective, it’s probably more advantageous to have a CF constantly involved and contributing. Yet you look at Haaland, some games he is almost non existent, yet scores 2 goals.

Personally, whilst I fully accept Haaland is a great goalscorer. I don’t think he is enjoyable to watch and actually find him quite a boring footballer. Yet, he is often the difference between winning and not winning. Which is also something we need from a player.

Maybe a case of trying to get a blend of both during games. I just thought JFH comments were interesting and I could see where he was coming from. 

And here lies the fundamental problem. 

Scoring goals completely changes the perception of the player. 

A CF that is involved within general play but isn't scoring still gets criticised.

A CF that's not involved within general play will be lamented for barely being involved. 

You add regular goals to either equation and things do a complete 180. 

We've already seen what happens here when a striker isn't involved in games with Lukaku and how often he'd be singled out, just as we've seen with Havertz and Werner at the other end of the spectrum. 

[kev61]

16 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

 

Personally, whilst I fully accept Haaland is a great goalscorer. I don’t think he is enjoyable to watch and actually find him quite a boring footballer. Yet, he is often the difference between winning and not winning. Which is also something we need from a player.

 

I'll take boring every time as long he scores.

[Michael Tucker]

6 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I'll take boring every time as long he scores.

Spot on.

[chara]

On 03/09/2023 at 07:36, Thiago97 said:

From a team perspective, it’s probably more advantageous to have a CF constantly involved and contributing. Yet you look at Haaland, some games he is almost non existent, yet scores 2 goals.

Personally, whilst I fully accept Haaland is a great goalscorer. I don’t think he is enjoyable to watch and actually find him quite a boring footballer. Yet, he is often the difference between winning and not winning. 

Unfairly taken somewhat out of context for which I apologise T97... when I can I usually watch the Citeh games and can do so without the emotional Chelsea glasses. That enables me to watch individuals on and off the ball and with less involvement in the ebb and flow of the game as  is the case watching Chelsea..folowing the ball etc 

The classic Arse W observation re DD......he should (and did know) better....

Watching the Big H.. he so often makes from a standing almost uninterested stance a move that suddenly has him clear and opportunities open. sometimes taken, sometimes missed. sometimes ignored or a different option taken by team mates...all of which is a nightmare for a defence and along with other pressures helps grind down and tire defences....Lukaku ? defences could catch but H is a constant danger  where ever he is on the pitch if only in the awareness of defenders..ignore at your peril!

Watching a game"s natural to and fro will always leave individual contributions on the fringe of view and my comments are not intended as any rebuke of your post with points well made. I find him interesting and enjoyable to watch BUT if he were playing for Chelsea I would not see the same game !

 

 

[Bert19]

There are some things I really like about Jackson and I think he could be very handy longer term, but if it's true that Poch had a proper talk with him about bookings on Friday and he then got the booking he did yesterday, i'd have had two weeks wages off him this morning for the Christmas Party fund if i was his manager. 

He needs to smarten up sharpish. 

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

There are some things I really like about Jackson and I think he could be very handy longer term, but if it's true that Poch had a proper talk with him about bookings on Friday and he then got the booking he did yesterday, i'd have had two weeks wages off him this morning for the Christmas Party fund if i was his manager. 

He needs to smarten up sharpish. 

That booking was engineered by the Villa keeper though in fairness.

The ref lapped it up of course. 

Meanwhile  I'm still waiting for sending offs in the Arsenal and Newcastle games to transpire for worse tackles than we had Gusto sent off for.