Cole Palmer signs for Chelsea

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

There isn't a team in the world that wouldn't take him tomorrow. 

There are plenty of teams where he’d be an automatic starter yes, but for the teams that really matters and who we should compare ourselves with? No, not many (if any). 

Also, I’m not comparing him to Hazard. Someone mentioned that he is as good as a prime-Hazard earlier in this thread. I’m merely refuting that very ludicrous claim. Is Palmer at his prime right now? Who knows, football isn’t linear and just because you were good (great?) at 21 doesn’t mean you will be world class or even better at 25. 

[martin1905]

56 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

There are plenty of teams where he’d be an automatic starter yes, but for the teams that really matters and who we should compare ourselves with? No, not many (if any). 

Also, I’m not comparing him to Hazard. Someone mentioned that he is as good as a prime-Hazard earlier in this thread. I’m merely refuting that very ludicrous claim. Is Palmer at his prime right now? Who knows, football isn’t linear and just because you were good (great?) at 21 doesn’t mean you will be world class or even better at 25. 

Not sure they did Dave, just that he had scored more goals than Hazard ever did.

[martin1905]

58 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

There are plenty of teams where he’d be an automatic starter yes, but for the teams that really matters and who we should compare ourselves with? No, not many (if any). 

I can't think of any team in Europe where he wouldn't be an automatic starter next season. 

Maybe City but Pep rotates a lot and with De Bruyne and Silva knocking on, Foden playing more and more central he'd certainly get plenty of game time.

He walks into the Liverpool and Arsenal sides. 

 

[paulw66]

4 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Would a prime-Hazard play for City? Has Palmer ever? 

Next. 

your most bizarre.

As Martin says, you are comparing prime Hazard with relative novice, Palmer.

Hazard's numbers at the same age are much weaker. 

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Not sure they did Dave, just that he had scored more goals than Hazard ever did.

Nobody did.

 

[paulw66]

On 01/09/2023 at 20:39, Sleeping Dave said:

We’ve bought two ex Man C academy products for £100m while we can’t wait to get rid of our own. It feels like this is done out of spite and not with the best interest of the club at heart.

None of this is Palmers fault. I wish him the best of luck here! But 1 481 minutes for Man C in all comps scoring 6 and assisting 2 isn’t exactly stellar output for £45m… 

I guess this explains the saltiness. 

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

your most bizarre.

As Martin says, you are comparing prime Hazard with relative novice, Palmer.

Hazard's numbers at the same age are much weaker. 

I agree it is bizarre to compare prime-Hazard to Palmer. That was sort of my point. 

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I guess this explains the saltiness. 

Does it? Remind me how Lavia has done so far? That Palmer has been a hit is of course a very welcome surprise. But just because he’s been the best AM by far compared to a pretty bad bunch doesn’t make him world class. It makes him a big fish in a very small pond. 

Like I said weeks ago, let’s see how he performs if/when we are a side fighting at the top of the table. We have had other young players scoring and assisting well early on, only to completely falter and disappear a season or two later. Not saying this will happen to Palmer, just that it’s so typical of this forum to overreact in both directions - either a player is shit or he is gods gift to football. I get it, we are fans. But I find it increasingly easy to take it all with a huge grain of salt - players form will go up and down. Wake me up when we have any player being top class consistently for a few seasons. Feels like ages since we had one that did. When/if Palmer achieves that I will be the first to congratulate him. 

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Does it? Remind me how Lavia has done so far? That Palmer has been a hit is of course a very welcome surprise. But just because he’s been the best AM by far compared to a pretty bad bunch doesn’t make him world class. It makes him a big fish in a very small pond. 

Like I said weeks ago, let’s see how he performs if/when we are a side fighting at the top of the table. We have had other young players scoring and assisting well early on, only to completely falter and disappear a season or two later. Not saying this will happen to Palmer, just that it’s so typical of this forum to overreact in both directions - either a player is shit or he is gods gift to football. I get it, we are fans. But I find it increasingly easy to take it all with a huge grain of salt - players form will go up and down. Wake me up when we have any player being top class consistently for a few seasons. Feels like ages since we had one that did. When/if Palmer achieves that I will be the first to congratulate him. 

Remind me of the other young Chelsea players who scored 23 and assisted 13 in their first seasons again?

[Bob Singleton]

31 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

[SNIP]

That Palmer has been a hit is of course a very welcome surprise. But just because he’s been the best AM by far compared to a pretty bad bunch doesn’t make him world class. It makes him a big fish in a very small pond. 

[SNIP]

 

May I remind you that that "very small pond" includes the rest of the Premiership! 

He may be the best of a very small bunch at Chelsea by a country mile, but he's also equal top PL scorer with Haaland (and ahead of him on assists) and currently 6th overall in Europe

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Ham said:

Remind me of the other young Chelsea players who scored 23 and assisted 13 in their first seasons again?

Tammy got 15 and 3 in a season when the club had a transfer ban and the likes of Hazard had just departed the club. 

At the moment CP seems to be Chelsea's Matt LeTisser. However he should be judged after season two. 

 

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

May I remind you that that "very small pond" includes the rest of the Premiership! 

He may be the best of a very small bunch at Chelsea by a country mile, but he's also equal top PL scorer with Haaland (and ahead of him on assists) and currently 6th overall in Europe

Where does Olie Watkins come in your rankings on the best in Europe and PL. 

[Michael Tucker]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

At the moment CP seems to be Chelsea's Matt LeTisser.

Seriously? Based on what, exactly?

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

However he should be judged after season two. 

After seasons 1 AND 2, I'd have thought.  He's a talented young player who WE have - shouldn't we just be happy about that?

[Sleeping Dave]

8 hours ago, Ham said:

Remind me of the other young Chelsea players who scored 23 and assisted 13 in their first seasons again?

We’ve had plenty of players scoring 9 and assisting 9 in the league over the years. Counting penalties is still something that will be to his disadvantage down the line. That we’ll get so many penalties in one season won’t happen once we are up there fighting for the title. Then he’ll have to find twice as many goals somehow to live up to your expectations. 

He’s had a very good first season. There’s no reason to overreact. 

[Sleeping Dave]

7 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

May I remind you that that "very small pond" includes the rest of the Premiership! 

He may be the best of a very small bunch at Chelsea by a country mile, but he's also equal top PL scorer with Haaland (and ahead of him on assists) and currently 6th overall in Europe

Palmer has twice as many penalty goals compared to anyone else in the top 10. 

Would you want Watkins as our number one striker? I vividly remember many ridiculing that prospect when he was brought up as an alternative last summer. 

[kev61]

4 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

At the moment CP seems to be Chelsea's Matt LeTisser. However he should be judged after season two. 

 

Le Tissier was a goal scorer full stop.Apart from that he offered little else which is fine.

Palmer looks like an all rounder in a forward position.The problem is I can see the manager ruining his confidence and he will want to move on.

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

He’s had a very good first season. There’s no reason to overreact.

Bamford had 17 and 7 in his first season in the PL when Leeds got promoted and I believe he also made the England squad.  Where is he now?

We will know a lot more about CP next season

[ROTG]

7 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Seriously? Based on what, exactly?

Firstly he seem to be head and shoulders above his team mates and probably responsible for 10 - 12 pts this season "you can do the math's of where the club would be without his points contribution"

7 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

After seasons 1 AND 2, I'd have thought.  He's a talented young player who WE have - shouldn't we just be happy about that?

Correct we will know a lot more about the young man next season, and one hopes he is not propping up the team again

[Chelsea_Matt]

This is one of the weirdest arguments I’ve ever seen on the forum. 👀😬🙈

[Sleeping Dave]

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

Bamford had 17 and 7 in his first season in the PL when Leeds got promoted and I believe he also made the England squad.  Where is he now?

We will know a lot more about CP next season

Well yes, that is been my point all along. As talented as he is, being held up against the best in the game requires him to do this season after season for a prolonged period of time (and preferably without penalties as a crutch). 
 

Still, 9 goals from open play and 9 assists in such a poor side isn’t bad by any means. He can be very proud of his first season with us. But world class he is not. Yet. 

[martin1905]

What's all this 9 goals and 9 assists nonsense?

Take away his 9 penalties and he has 11 goals and 9 assists in 23 starts!!!!!!

In all competitions, without penalties,  its 14 goals and 13 assists in 34 starts!!!!!!

But why on earth would anyone take away someone scoring a penalty other than to be argumentative? And then take away 2 set piece goals to aid their argument. Next you'll be taking away corners as assists. 

Even if you want to be so argumentative, on the only subject you've posted on in months, at least respect the fact that those '9 goals and 9 assists' have come in 23 starts and stop talking like that's all he's done in a 38 game season.

The facts are Cole Palmer has scored 23 goals and has 13 assists in 34 starts. 

Or a goal contribution every 85 minutes. 

At the age of 21, in his first full season in men's football. It's utterly ridiculous 

Comparing him to Patrick fucking Bamford. Unbelievable. 

 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Well yes, that is been my point all along. As talented as he is, being held up against the best in the game requires him to do this season after season for a prolonged period of time (and preferably without penalties as a crutch). 
 

Still, 9 goals from open play and 9 assists in such a poor side isn’t bad by any means. He can be very proud of his first season with us. But world class he is not. Yet. 

You are literally the only person comparing him to anyone. 

Nobody else has mentioned other players in a comparison only that he had scored the same amount of goals as Hazard in one season, which he has since surpassed. 

You now keep banging on about comparing him to prime Hazard, which no one, apart from you , has done.

[ROTG]

28 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Comparing him to Patrick fucking Bamford. Unbelievable. 

I also compared him to Tammy but you kept quite on that one.  
 

if you think he’s the best thing since mothers pride that’s your prerogative. However it will be interesting to see what you write next season should his form go south and Poch is not at the helm to blame. 

[martin1905]

19 minutes ago, ROTG said:

I also compared him to Tammy but you kept quite on that one.  
 

if you think he’s the best thing since mothers pride that’s your prerogative. However it will be interesting to see what you write next season should his form go south and Poch is not at the helm to blame. 

Didn't notice to be fair, not sure what your alluding to about me keeping quiet on that one, pray tell?

But it does beg the question, why are you comparing him to two strikers? Because his numbers are so outrageous he can only be compared to strikers? Because you won't find another 21 year old attacking midfield player that has ever played for us that compares? Please explain why you are comparing him to players that play in a completely different position and who were never anywhere near his level? Very, very peculiar comparison.

And if your going to wait two years to judge him,  why do you judge others, like the Bournemouth level striker we have or the Monaco centre back pairing so quickly? Surely by your own reasoning if you can't judge players for at least two seasons that goes for all players, not just your cherry picked ones?

Edited April 26 by martin1905

[ROTG]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Didn't notice to be fair, not sure what your alluding to about me keeping quiet on that one, pray tell?

But it does beg the question, why are you comparing him to two strikers? Because his numbers are so outrageous he can only be compared to strikers? Because you won't find another 21 year old attacking player that has ever played for us that compares? Please explain why you ate comparing him to players that play in a completely different position and who were never anywhere near his level? Very, very peculiar comparison.

And if your going to wait two years to judge him,  why do you judge others, like the Bournemouth level striker we have or the Monaco centre back pairing so quickly? Surely by your own reasoning if you can't judge players for at least two seasons that goes for all players, not just your cherry picked ones?

You are bang on the money about finding another Chelsea midfield player returning those numbers. However It could also be argued, would CP have walked into a Chelsea team in the past two decades. KDB being a perfect example. 
 

with that said, one could argue that 20/21 squad of SFL although did not have a individual Midfield player  CP numbers the overall team of midfield players combined scored more than the current midfield.  One dreads to think the numbers the midfield produce during SFL peek seasons.

Bamford was just an example of a one hit wonder, hence CP should measured next season.