Cole Palmer signs for Chelsea

[Plurathon]

On 06/03/2024 at 02:06, xceleryx said:

Here's the pickle I see with Palmer, who has been excellent I mind add first.

When he plays wide and inverted it means he has virtually the whole pitch in front of him while being on his dominate side. When he plays as a  #10 through the middle, because he's so one footed he doesn't really utilise the left spaces as much as he as no real right foot. So you're only giving him the right half of the pitch, which means less space ahead and more bodies around him. 

He's a little like Ziyech in ways. Not a really a winger, nor a wide forward, and not really a full blooded 10. 

Mudryk can play with both feet, but his burst of speed is also great with being able to roll his man and then drive forward. Said this before but his playmaking abilities are underrated and should he used as more than just a speedy winger that stays wide.

The Ziyech analogy is really good, spot on!

[paulw66]

Has now matched Hazard's best ever PL return for goals in a season. 

Astonishing 

[martin1905]

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Has now matched Hazard's best ever PL return for goals in a season. 

Astonishing 

Even more astonishing when you look at it in a little more detail.

16 goals and 8 assists in the league. In 21 starts!!!!! 

19 goals and 12 assists in  31 starts in all competitions.

He's the highest in Europe for an under 21 and 7th across the top 5 European leagues, overall.

He's an absolute phenomenon and has done all this whilst playing in a mid table side, just imagine what he would do with better players around him.

[Sleeping Dave]

21 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Even more astonishing when you look at it in a little more detail.

16 goals and 8 assists in the league. In 21 starts!!!!! 

19 goals and 12 assists in  31 starts in all competitions.

He's the highest in Europe for an under 21 and 7th across the top 5 European leagues, overall.

He's an absolute phenomenon and has done all this whilst playing in a mid table side, just imagine what he would do with better players around him.

Although I do not disagre he has been good, he's nowhere near Hazard standard. 

It's also prudent to say that 8 of the 16 goals have been from the spot, and atleast a few of them resulting from set pieces. A goal is a goal sure, but it is very telling that less than half of them has been from open play. 

[chara]

57 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Although I do not disagre he has been good, he's nowhere near Hazard standard. 

It's also prudent to say that 8 of the 16 goals have been from the spot, and atleast a few of them resulting from set pieces. A goal is a goal sure, but it is very telling that less than half of them has been from open play. 

Good to see you here SD...agree but the other intangible is how many of those penalty moments were peak pressure moments.....just the Manchester ones were so clinical at moments many would have frozen or bottled it.

Eden was a one off...Cole is in his first full season and a different impact player but he does lift us loyalists,

Be interesting to see how and where he is in five years say.

[flllerywhereru2]

14 minutes ago, chara said:

Good to see you here SD...agree but the other intangible is how many of those penalty moments were peak pressure moments.....just the Manchester ones were so clinical at moments many would have frozen or bottled it.

Eden was a one off...Cole is in his first full season and a different impact player but he does lift us loyalists,

Be interesting to see how and where he is in five years say.

Not with us unless we rapidly improve in the coming few seasons

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Although I do not disagre he has been good, he's nowhere near Hazard standard. 

It's also prudent to say that 8 of the 16 goals have been from the spot, and atleast a few of them resulting from set pieces. A goal is a goal sure, but it is very telling that less than half of them has been from open play. 

It's also prudent to say Hazard also took penalties, and played in a much, much better, more experienced team, one that was consistently finishing top 4.

Hazard's highest scoring non-penalty goal seasons (league only) are 14*, 12, 11* and 10

*PL winning seasons.  The 12 and 10 goal seasons, we finished 3rd.  

Hazard's first season here, aged 21, yielded 7 non-penalty PL goals in a team that finished 3rd.

Palmer, also 21, has 8 non-penalty goals already, in a team that will probably finish somewhere between 7th and 10th.

I'm not here to slag off Hazard, more to demonstrate Palmer's numbers are ridiculous, and on a like for like basis are actually better at this moment, even if you ignore the standard of the teams played in.

Edit - and this ignoring all the assists. 

Edited April 5 by paulw66

[chara]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

It's also prudent to say Hazard also took penalties, and played in a much, much better, more experienced team, one that was consistently finishing top 4.

Hazard's highest scoring non-penalty goal seasons (league only) are 14*, 12, 11* and 10

*PL winning seasons.  The 12 and 10 goal seasons, we finished 3rd.  

Hazard's first season here, aged 21, yielded 7 non-penalty PL goals in a team that finished 3rd.

Palmer, also 21, has 8 non-penalty goals already, in a team that will probably finish somewhere between 7th and 10th.

I'm not here to slag off Hazard, more to demonstrate Palmer's numbers are ridiculous, and on a like for like basis are actually better at this moment, even if you ignore the standard of the teams played in.

Edit - and this ignoring all the assists. 

Thanks for the excellent breakdown...I still go back to the importance of some of the pens.... dying moments of crucial games with every thing on the line....amazing...we all understand you,,and others ,,,are not doing a comparison test but showing the influence of two exceptional and different players as youngsters.

So glad we had the best of Eden and hoping Cole will be as long term a joy as Mr Hazard!

Edited April 5 by chara

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

It's also prudent to say Hazard also took penalties, and played in a much, much better, more experienced team, one that was consistently finishing top 4.

Hazard's highest scoring non-penalty goal seasons (league only) are 14*, 12, 11* and 10

*PL winning seasons.  The 12 and 10 goal seasons, we finished 3rd.  

Hazard's first season here, aged 21, yielded 7 non-penalty PL goals in a team that finished 3rd.

Palmer, also 21, has 8 non-penalty goals already, in a team that will probably finish somewhere between 7th and 10th.

I'm not here to slag off Hazard, more to demonstrate Palmer's numbers are ridiculous, and on a like for like basis are actually better at this moment, even if you ignore the standard of the teams played in.

Edit - and this ignoring all the assists. 

You talk about Hazard being in a better team is the reason why he scored goals. It was the opposite, we were a top team because of Hazard.

Come back when Palmer has scored 16 PL goals in a title winning side or even in a side that finishes top four. 

This league has been full of them. Players who scored goals for midtable sides and totally bottled it when thrown into the big times. To be big fish in a small pond is one thing, being the biggest fish in the biggest pond is something else altogether. 

Edited April 5 by Sleeping Dave

[paulw66]

2 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You talk about Hazard being in a better team is the reason why he scored goals. It was the opposite, we were a top team because of Hazard.

Come back when Palmer has scored 16 PL goals in a title winning side or even in a side that finishes top four. 

This league has been full of them. Players who scored goals for midtable sides and totally bottled it when thrown into the big times. To be big fish in a small pond is one thing, being the biggest fish in the biggest pond is something else altogether. 

You think Palmer is a bottler?

[Rob B]

10 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You talk about Hazard being in a better team is the reason why he scored goals. It was the opposite, we were a top team because of Hazard.

Come back when Palmer has scored 16 PL goals in a title winning side or even in a side that finishes top four. 

This league has been full of them. Players who scored goals for midtable sides and totally bottled it when thrown into the big times. To be big fish in a small pond is one thing, being the biggest fish in the biggest pond is something else altogether. 

Palmer will do that with ease IMO.  I’m convinced he has another gear yet. 

Everyone is aware of the huge goals he’s scored for us (United, City etc) but I heard a really interesting stat on Talksport yesterday where a disproportionately high number of his goals are the first goal in the game.   Compare that with someone like Jackson (who I also rate) who tends to score the 3rd or 4th goals in comfortable wins against teams in the bottom half.

Palmer is a phenomenon 

[My Blood Is Blue]

Palmer is the player we have desperately needed and wanted since Hazard left. He is just such a smart player, especially considering his age. He has an elite mentality and a huge desire to win. He is dragging us through games at the moment, aged 21 in his first full season not just at the club, but in the PL as well.

Next season will be his true test though, as he’ll be more of a marked man, especially if we improve to a more genuine top 6 side (hopefully!).

I love watching him play, I love his swagger, I love that he’s happy to call out our mistakes when they happen… sadly, he’s too good for us, so let’s enjoy him while we can.

City fans must be gutted he left, he’s already better than Grealish.

[My Blood Is Blue]

10 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You talk about Hazard being in a better team is the reason why he scored goals. It was the opposite, we were a top team because of Hazard.

Come back when Palmer has scored 16 PL goals in a title winning side or even in a side that finishes top four. 

This league has been full of them. Players who scored goals for midtable sides and totally bottled it when thrown into the big times. To be big fish in a small pond is one thing, being the biggest fish in the biggest pond is something else altogether. 

Yeah, plenty of those players, I agree, but I think the difference is, those players grab a decent amount of goals as a poacher or finisher, whereas Palmer influences the game in so many other ways and has so much more to his game than just scoring.

[johnnybozo]

Best thing about him is forcing rat boy Sterling out of the side

[chara]

I am 100% in agreement regarding Cole and his potential even starting from such a high standard but with all the justified praise I feel the impact of Gusto on the squad gets a little bit overlooked...two great signings somewhat over shadowed or rather distracted from by such a plethora of ineffective ones.

[Ham]

1 hour ago, johnnybozo said:

Best thing about him is forcing rat boy Sterling out of the side

I don't get the hate. 

Yes, he makes bad decisions on the ball but why 'Rat Boy?"

[Bob Singleton]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

I don't get the hate. 

Yes, he makes bad decisions on the ball but why 'Rat Boy?"

Agreed.

I don't get the hate toward Sterling, and certainly not the wholly unjustified name calling.  Furthermore, Cole Palmer has said that Sterling was his mentor when both were at City, and that Sterling took him under his wing, introduced him to his new team-mates, helped him settle in London, invited him over for dinner, barbecues etc when he joined. If Cole Palmer has settled in to life at Chelsea so quickly and so easily, I'd say Sterling has played a fair part in that! And for that at least we should be thankful.

[johnnybozo]

20 hours ago, Ham said:

I don't get the hate. 

Yes, he makes bad decisions on the ball but why 'Rat Boy?"

He's a rat who goes to direct rivals and can only win with world class players around him. Biggest scam artist of the past 20 years.

[xceleryx]

18 hours ago, johnnybozo said:

He's a rat who goes to direct rivals and can only win with world class players around him. Biggest scam artist of the past 20 years.

What a straight up shit take this is. 

By this metric Lampard is a rat. Wise is a rat. Cech, David Luiz, Mata, etc. They all moved to direct rivals.

Secondly, teams that win generally have world class players in them, that's why they, you know, win. 

[Sleeping Dave]

On 05/04/2024 at 22:49, paulw66 said:

You think Palmer is a bottler?

A very strange question Paul. 

On 06/04/2024 at 09:09, Rob B said:

Palmer will do that with ease IMO.  I’m convinced he has another gear yet. 

Everyone is aware of the huge goals he’s scored for us (United, City etc) but I heard a really interesting stat on Talksport yesterday where a disproportionately high number of his goals are the first goal in the game.   Compare that with someone like Jackson (who I also rate) who tends to score the 3rd or 4th goals in comfortable wins against teams in the bottom half.

Palmer is a phenomenon 

But he has not yet dragged us through winning a championship has he? Hazard did, with some style I might add. 

Palmer is nowhere near that standard yet. Maybe he will reach it, maybe he won’t. But to compare him to Hazard at this stage is downright ludicrous. 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Palmer is nowhere near that standard yet. Maybe he will reach it, maybe he won’t. But to compare him to Hazard at this stage is downright ludicrous. 

He is more like Le Tisser at the moment a big fish in a small pond, when you look at the level of player the club owns 

[Chelsea_Matt]

Palmer won’t stay at this shitshow of a club for much longer. One more season if we’re lucky. 

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Palmer won’t stay at this shitshow of a club for much longer. One more season if we’re lucky. 

I hear you but I'm absolutely certain once we fix the glaring hole in the coaching these players are getting by actually getting a coach who coaches players in the true meaning of the word that we will improve massively. 

[Ham]

Just now, Mark Kelly said:

I hear you but I'm absolutely certain once we fix the glaring hole in the coaching these players are getting by actually getting a coach who coaches players in the true meaning of the word that we will improve massively. 

Not until we sort the long running injury crisis. 

That's a bigger issue than the coach

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

23 minutes ago, Ham said:

Not until we sort the long running injury crisis. 

That's a bigger issue than the coach

 

Yup.