Liverpool 4 Chelsea 1

[Dwmh]

36 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

It's only "shit" because you've been caught out again.

The only difficult thing here is you.

To no ones surprise I might add.

Whatever.  Pretty sure that the players who left are very happy.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Dwmh said:

Whatever.  Pretty sure that the players who left are very happy.

Probably

But so are Clearlake in all probability considering they've saved all those wages and reset the club to what they wanted it to be. 

They're idiots but at least they only have themselves to blame.

[ROTG]

17 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

But so are Clearlake in all probability considering they've saved all those wages and reset the club to what they wanted it to be. 

Counted to 10, off to meditate 😀

[Dwmh]

26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Probably

But so are Clearlake in all probability considering they've saved all those wages and reset the club to what they wanted it to be. 

They're idiots but at least they only have themselves to blame.

yeah - were they pushed or did they jump ship?
Probably a lot of both, especially how quickly they all went, it looks like deals verbally done in March.
The club did a lot of bragging about how it was going to cut the wage bill - that would do it I should think.

So that is the business plan then?  Buy the Naivety gap, players too young to realise how good they are and trust the scouts to value unproven players (or assume 1 PL season or WC is proof enough for £100m).
I forsee a lot of Lukaku's running down their contract in Italy or just walking out.

[Siidi]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

They almost all (and it is about 10 of them) got taken on by CL clubs where they play as much as they did here and are mostly fitter.
They are almost all doing better than here.
Meanwhile we have a dog's dinner that desperately lacks experience.

The ex-girlfriend theory is a wonderful way to get over a break up.  But it is a lousy method for rational analysis.

I haven't heard of a single one of them who is doing particularly well. They may be fitter because they have coaches who care about match fitness. That is not to say we would be better if they were still here. I think Pochettino would find it even harder. Because once an old player works out that the manager does not demand too much of them (and I don't think Pochettino tasks his players enough), he would lose interest, and the rest of the team usually follows.  

No doubt some people would have Kovacic back. I would be interested to know which players you think would have bettered us had we not sold them, Rudiger excluded.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

But so are Clearlake in all probability considering they've saved all those wages and reset the club to what they wanted it to be. 

 

You think they want this club to be a midtable one making up the numbers? They've invested billions into buying Chelsea and the only way they'll ever get their money back, let alone make money,  is for us to be a top club again.

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

You think they want this club to be a midtable one making up the numbers? They've invested billions into buying Chelsea and the only way they'll ever get their money back, let alone make money,  is for us to be a top club again.

I did say they were stupid didn't I? 

[Dwmh]

8 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

You think they want this club to be a midtable one making up the numbers? They've invested billions into buying Chelsea and the only way they'll ever get their money back, let alone make money,  is for us to be a top club again.

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I did say they were stupid didn't I? 

I think they paid £2bn for a Strasbourg-type player nursery.

[Rob B]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

They almost all (and it is about 10 of them) got taken on by CL clubs where they play as much as they did here and are mostly fitter.
They are almost all doing better than here.
Meanwhile we have a dog's dinner that desperately lacks experience.

They really didn’t.   Havertz, Kovacic, Kepa, RLC, Azpi, Ziyech and Pulisic did (7) and we got rid of 18 senior players.  So less than half. 

Of those, Azpi was 33 and left on a free transfer.  Kovacic can’t get in the City team (no shame in that but certainly not doing better) , Mount has barely played for United after 2 different injuries but has otherwise been terrible, Ziyech doesn’t play, Kepa has been displaced by GK 3,  which leaves RLC and Pulisic who I’m sure are doing okay in Italy - in the same way I expect the guys who play in front of 900 people in Saudi Arabia are. 

If there’s one thing I won’t criticise the new ownership for it is selling the dross we had previously.  

Where they’ve royally messed up is the buying side.  Both in terms of profile (age, experience etc) and valuations of certain players (Caicedo etc) 

[Dwmh]

2 minutes ago, Rob B said:

They really didn’t.   Havertz, Kovacic, Kepa, RLC, Azpi, Ziyech and Pulisic did (7) and we got rid of 18 senior players.  So less than half. 

Of those, Azpi was 33 and left on a free transfer.  Kovacic can’t get in the City team (no shame in that but certainly not doing better) , Mount has barely played for United after 2 different injuries but has otherwise been terrible, Ziyech doesn’t play, Kepa has been displaced by GK 3,  which leaves RLC and Pulisic who I’m sure are doing okay in Italy - in the same way I expect the guys who play in front of 900 people in Saudi Arabia are. 

If there’s one thing I won’t criticise the new ownership for it is selling the dross we had previously.  

Where they’ve royally messed up is the buying side.  Both in terms of profile (age, experience etc) and valuations of certain players (Caicedo etc) 

Azpi mostly plays for AM. 
Kovacic couldn't get in our team other for injuries, I don't think he was ever first choice except for a while when they gave up on RLC and Barkley at 8.
Mount I give you - but he seems to have had a lot of issues.
Ziyech seems to start whenever he is not on international duty 
Kepa was injured and rotates at the moment.
Aubameyang starts every game
Pulisic almost always starts and has missed just 2 games with injuries.
TT is at Bayen Munich and the team is doing really well (on target for 85 points the most anyone has got since 2016 and 14 points up on last season).
As you say 18 senior players and so half at least weren't playing regularly with us.

We are a mid table team nowadays, the idea that RLC or Pulisic have gone to lesser clubs is a joke.

Calling them dross is Ex girlfriend theory.  Self-counselling.  I've done the same myself.

[ROTG]

42 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

the only way they'll ever get their money back, let alone make money,  is for us to be a top club again.

No

the own SB, which would be worth billions if developed. 
 

I believe EC2 building plans need to be finalised by mid 2025 

[Mark Kelly]

35 minutes ago, ROTG said:

No

the own SB, which would be worth billions if developed. 
 

I believe EC2 building plans need to be finalised by mid 2025 

Are they building a new stadium for free then? 

 

[Ham]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Azpi mostly plays for AM. 
Kovacic couldn't get in our team other for injuries, I don't think he was ever first choice except for a while when they gave up on RLC and Barkley at 8.
Mount I give you - but he seems to have had a lot of issues.
Ziyech seems to start whenever he is not on international duty 
Kepa was injured and rotates at the moment.
Aubameyang starts every game
Pulisic almost always starts and has missed just 2 games with injuries.
TT is at Bayen Munich and the team is doing really well (on target for 85 points the most anyone has got since 2016 and 14 points up on last season).
As you say 18 senior players and so half at least weren't playing regularly with us.

We are a mid table team nowadays, the idea that RLC or Pulisic have gone to lesser clubs is a joke.

Calling them dross is Ex girlfriend theory.  Self-counselling.  I've done the same myself.

Stopped reading at "Kepa was injured" for RM.  Yeah that's what happened 😂

 

 

 

[Dwmh]

30 minutes ago, Ham said:

Stopped reading at "Kepa was injured" for RM.  Yeah that's what happened 😂

 

 

 

And conveniently said nothing more.  Yeah, how to refute a point without actuall taking the opposite view.  Well done.

[Mark Kelly]

16 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

And conveniently said nothing more.  Yeah, how to refute a point without actuall taking the opposite view.  Well done.

Mate, Kepa was dropped for "doing a Kepa" everyone knows that. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Are they building a new stadium for free then? 

 

I am sure building a stadium at EC2 is a drop in the ocean from the money Clearcakes will make from developing SB into a residential/ commercial complex. 

[Ham]

17 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

And conveniently said nothing more.  Yeah, how to refute a point without actuall taking the opposite view.  Well done.

Ok.  Kepa has been awful for RM.  Dropped.

Kovacic was first choice for Chelsea. Now 2nd string. 

Pulisic missed 6 games in October and November. He's still missing games in a much more pedestrian league.

Aubameyang was simply not up to the PL anymore. Now found his level. 

Ziyech was most one-footed, one-dimensional player ever and had found his level. 

 

 

[Ham]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

I am sure building a stadium at EC2 is a drop in the ocean from the money Clearcakes will make from developing SB into a residential/ commercial complex. 

We wouldn't be able to buy and develop EC whist keeping and developing SB. 

[Dwmh]

26 minutes ago, Ham said:

Ok.  Kepa has been awful for RM.  Dropped.

Kovacic was first choice for Chelsea. Now 2nd string. 

Pulisic missed 6 games in October and November. He's still missing games in a much more pedestrian league.

Aubameyang was simply not up to the PL anymore. Now found his level. 

Ziyech was most one-footed, one-dimensional player ever and had found his level. 

 

 

Kepa injured and rotated afterwards (started 5 of the last 11).
Kovacic has hardly ever been first choice for Chelsea, he played a lot because of injuries esp to Kante
No Pulisic did not miss any games in october, 2 in November..  He has started 19 our of 22 Serie A games and was sub in another.  5 starts in the CL (and sub in the other)
(missed 6 games in Oct/nov? - are you making this up as you go along?)
Aubameyang indeed and it turns out his level is way ahead of bench warmer at Chelsea.
Ziyech indeed has found his level in the Championship league where they finished above Man U.  Even if he is in the EL now, that is a step up from 6 PL starts last season.

I can see why you prefer sarcasm to out right refuting statements.
 

[Ham]

6 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Kepa injured and rotated afterwards (started 5 of the last 11).
Kovacic has hardly ever been first choice for Chelsea, he played a lot because of injuries esp to Kante
No Pulisic did not miss any games in october, 2 in November..  He has started 19 our of 22 Serie A games and was sub in another.  5 starts in the CL (and sub in the other)
(missed 6 games in Oct/nov? - are you making this up as you go along?)
Aubameyang indeed and it turns out his level is way ahead of bench warmer at Chelsea.
Ziyech indeed has found his level in the Championship league where they finished above Man U.  Even if he is in the EL now, that is a step up from 6 PL starts last season.

I can see why you prefer sarcasm to out right refuting statements.
 

CP missed 6 games through injury. Why are you only counting Series A games with Milan? I thought we were discussing injuries, not games. He had two separate injuries in October and November. 

You can stick with your opinion on Kovacic. I'll stay with mine. 

First name on the team sheet, regardless of injuries elsewhere. 

[Rob B]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Azpi mostly plays for AM. 
Kovacic couldn't get in our team other for injuries, I don't think he was ever first choice except for a while when they gave up on RLC and Barkley at 8.
Mount I give you - but he seems to have had a lot of issues.
Ziyech seems to start whenever he is not on international duty 
Kepa was injured and rotates at the moment.
Aubameyang starts every game
Pulisic almost always starts and has missed just 2 games with injuries.
TT is at Bayen Munich and the team is doing really well (on target for 85 points the most anyone has got since 2016 and 14 points up on last season).
As you say 18 senior players and so half at least weren't playing regularly with us.

We are a mid table team nowadays, the idea that RLC or Pulisic have gone to lesser clubs is a joke.

Calling them dross is Ex girlfriend theory.  Self-counselling.  I've done the same myself.

Azpi has started 11 out of 28 in all comps

Ziyech has started 5 out of 14 in all comps

Aubamayang does play regularly but has 6 goals in 19  (in the French league) 

Kepa played 10 in a row for Madrid, missed two games with a minor injury and has only started 2 out the following 8 thereafter.  He’s been dropped. 

We are a mid table team nowadays, that I agree with you.   But my god would I feel even worse this season in mid-table whilst watching the likes of Aubameyang and Ziyech stroll around.   Or see teams take pot shots from anywhere which Kepa gets nowhere near. 

To reiterate, nothing wrong with the fire sale, it was what came afterwards that needs real scrutiny. 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

CP missed 6 games through injury. Why are you only counting Series A games with Milan? I thought we were discussing injuries, not games. He had two separate injuries in October and November. 

You can stick with your opinion on Kovacic. I'll stay with mine. 

First name on the team sheet, regardless of injuries elsewhere. 

I wasn't discussing injuries - I was discussing how well he was doing - for Milan.
You raised injuries and now you are adding in injuries for USA.
Your source btw is wrong.
He missed 1 Seria A game for the first injury, 1 for the second (plus 2 for USA)
2 club games missed only  - over 20 starts already this season.
https://www.flashscore.co.uk/player/pulisic-christian/vTuaEfRq/

Kovacic it really isn't opinion - much as you would like to back track it to opinion.
22/23 1704 PL mins  = 45 mins a game for Chelsea  (first name on team sheet you said)
23/24   858 PL mins  =   41 mins a game for Man City

The "opinion" that he went from starter at Chelsea to bench sitter at City is just wrong.
Kovacic has stepped up to a team that gets double the points we got last year and dropped < 10%  in mins.

 

Azpi has started 11 out of 28 in all comps

Ziyech has started 5 out of 14 in all comps

58 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Azpi has started 11 out of 28 in all comps

Ziyech has started 5 out of 14 in all comps

Thanks. Indeed a big step up in starting rates at CL teams.

59 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Aubamayang does play regularly but has 6 goals in 19  (in the French league) 

Whereas last season he had 5 starts 1 goal at a club with 44 points.

 

1 hour ago, Rob B said:

Kepa played 10 in a row for Madrid, missed two games with a minor injury and has only started 2 out the following 8 thereafter.  He’s been dropped. 

No:   5 starts in last 11 after an injury (3 in last 8 if you pick your time period)  Rotated - time may tell, but it hasn't done yet.
4 games injured and 2 games on bench before he returned.  
https://www.flashscore.co.uk/player/arrizabalaga-kepa/Yq2dyUwN/

 

1 hour ago, Rob B said:

We are a mid table team nowadays, that I agree with you.   But my god would I feel even worse this season in mid-table whilst watching the likes of Aubameyang and Ziyech stroll around.   Or see teams take pot shots from anywhere which Kepa gets nowhere near. 

But we hardly ever got to see "Aubameyang and Ziyech stroll around".  Well maybe on the touchline.  Worst team in 35 years* and they still weren't picked.
Suddenly they are regulars in EL and CL teams.

(I'll skip the Kepa remarks, there is something about Kepa, Sarri and Jorginho that makes sensible conversation impossible with half the site).
*1988/89  with 42 points, we were relegated.

1 hour ago, Rob B said:

To reiterate, nothing wrong with the fire sale, it was what came afterwards that needs real scrutiny. 

It wasn't a Fire Sale.  Most all went for very full prices or even fuller salaries.  They went early (June to mid-July) and to good clubs which suggests strong demand, early planning by the buyers, and a great desire of the players to get out.
It was anything but a fire sale.

I agree the next bit is an even bigger disaster.  Driven by players or club, the exit of most of these players was well understood by the board (and Poch) well before the end of the season.
So reaching September with just 20 over 21 players (GK4, Nkunku and Fofana and Chalobah included) is entirely self inflicted.


 

[ROTG]

7 hours ago, Ham said:

We wouldn't be able to buy and develop EC whist keeping and developing SB. 

Em. Creamcakes £40b odd company can certainly afford to both in parallel. 

[Dwmh]

46 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Em. Creamcakes £40b odd company can certainly afford to both in parallel. 

Not if they are expecting 30% returns annually.  Even with a lot of fresh debt.
How long would EC take from financial commitment to being ready to play there?  And how much longer to re-build and cash in on  the Bridge?

[Ham]

55 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Em. Creamcakes £40b odd company can certainly afford to both in parallel. 

They're not property developers though.