Chelsea Stadium Plans

[Sciatika]

I think it is more about how it is presented to CPO members. My sense talking to others was that if some conditions were met they would not be opposed to a move. It would involve things like not being too far away, proper handling of things like people's ashes buried under the pitch, and/or some kind of quid pro quo on pitch ownership (i.e. swap current pitch for the new one to act as a guarantee against sale of the new stadium).

[jasonb]

Seriously people's ashes being buried under the pitch .... I would have thought with all that under soil heating that would have been a no-go anyway. 

[chara]

4 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

I very much doubt that you've taken everything into account, though.

That Broncos stadium, in spite of looking like it's in central Denver on a map, is essentially surrounded by huge parking lots, the biggest of which surrounds the stadium itself. That parking lot is, at a guess, 5 or 6 times the footprint of the stadium. Stamford Bridge, on the other hand, is about 5 or 6 times bigger than the parking available on site. That impacts on how many lorries can access the site to, firstly, remove debris, then later, deliver building materials. The narrow, congested roads around ST don't help either. I'm guessing that the local councils won't allow lorries to park up on the roads as they await an available space on site to load/unload, so we're looking at 'just in time' deliveries. Ask any factory what happens when things don't happen 'just in time'. Furthermore, there is nothing residential about the area surrounding the Broncos stadium, unlike ST, so I'm going to guess that building was allowed to be done outside of the hours of, say, 8:30-17:30 Mon to Fri.

It's very difficult having a sensible discussion with someone not comparing like with like.

 

Strange, I agree with your last line...and I was really talking about the construction time as much as anything else...why I'm trying to "explain" something theorical puzzles me.

Really Bob..does it matter ?...it's only a passing casual comment not meant to be the last word on the subject.

Oh..and I have driven through the area in question..depends how far you want to move the boundaries...sure..Denver ain't London but I do know both areas and understand the restrictions, different, in both.

Enough...it's done to death.

[Sciatika]

55 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Seriously people's ashes being buried under the pitch .... I would have thought with all that under soil heating that would have been a no-go anyway. 

They are buried in urns.

[chara]

2 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

They are buried in urns.

I know of Ossie and The Cat..others?...an issue I had completely missed over the debates.

[jasonb]

Seems so bizarre because ultimately we need good pitches, if dozens of fans urns start turning up at the end of the season for interring relatives under the pitch I'm sure at a future point the groundsman would be scratching his head at the thought of drainage and other potential issues. 

[chrisb]

24 minutes ago, chara said:

I know of Ossie and The Cat..others?...an issue I had completely missed over the debates.

If The Cat was anything like my 3 there’ll be other rather unpleasant stuff buried under there too!

[Sciatika]

I don't think its a general thing open to anyone. It came up in a CPO document in 2011. I am not saying that it is a big issue but just that it has to be treated sensitively. 

[boratsbrother]

3 hours ago, FrankLampard8 said:

The reason that era is over is largely due to the regulations we have now though... or are you suggesting that we don't need regulations because everyone is a great upstanding guy these days and will built safe stuff with the best materials out of the kindness of their heart? because I have news for you. 

Did you get a quote from them for the Stamford Bridge renovation?

As you well know, London has some of the finest buildings in the entire world. Probably more per square mile than any other city in the world. Many of them were built decades, even centuries before the stifling regulations and health and safety certificates.

When all those dreadful buildings were being built the country as a whole was going through a bad era with strikes galore, shoddy workmanship in factories, cowboy builders, rip off garage owners, pubs and clubs serving slops etc etc etc. It was little wonder we ended up being called the sick man of Europe 

it is nonsense to say the turnaround in the quality of the building industry was down to government regulations. As with everyother industry, it was more down to a collective realisation that our country was going to the dogs and everyone and everything needed to be improved.

And no, I didn't say we didn't need any regulations whatsoever. Just a relaxation of them, that's all. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chara]

20 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

And no, I didn't say we didn't need any regulations whatsoever. Just a relaxation of them, that's all. 

And/or a sensible relative application of such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ROTG]

19 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

thus resulting in slum council estates (I was brought up on a council estate,  so I'm not having a dig at the people who ended up living in  one of those shitholes)

Don't remember too many complaining when Mrs T said people could buy their council shi*holes.

I think you will find ~50% of suburbia homeowners started off on the property ladder buying their council house. The only real losers in this world are the ones who have to rent privately and are given no grace if they cannot pay the rent, unlike those in the council Sh*tholes.

Edited February 7, 2023 by ROTG

[FrankLampard8]

14 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

the country as a whole was going through a bad era with strikes galore, shoddy workmanship in factories, cowboy builders, rip off garage owners, pubs and clubs serving slops etc etc etc. It was little wonder we ended up being called the sick man of Europe 

Go, can you imagine such a time?! 😏 You do realise you could literally be describing the present, right? 😂

I always felt you were on the wind up on here but now I know you are. 

[boratsbrother]

24 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

Go, can you imagine such a time?! 😏 You do realise you could literally be describing the present, right? 😂

I always felt you were on the wind up on here but now I know you are. 

Apart from strikes, it's not the same at all and your're slurring the British people by saying it is. There's not cowboy builders everywhere. Lazy, poor workmanship etc etc etc.

We are going through a tough time along with many other countries who are experiencing exactly the same problems as us. That was not the case when Dennis Healy  had to go cap in hand to the IMF. There was no world  economic crisis brought on by the double whammy of Covid  followed by the fuel crisis brought on by Russia invading the Ukraine. All our problems back in the 70's were self inflicted.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by boratsbrother

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Don't remember too many complaining when Mrs T said people could buy their council shi*holes.

I think you will find ~50% of suburbia homeowners started off on the property ladder buying their council house. The only real losers in this world are the ones who have to rent privately and are given no grace if they cannot pay the rent, unlike those in the council Sh*tholes.

I could take you on a guided tour of  my city and show you the estates which were build during that time. Every single one of them was appallingly designed and built. They were a huge drop in quality from the very nice, sturdy council properties build during the 50's, many of which are still in great condition today. 

 

As bad as they were, people absolutely made the right choice to buy because it makes no sense to continue to pay rent for decades when you have the option to buy. No government policy before or since has put more money into the pockets of the working class than the right to buy. 

 

[FrankLampard8]

36 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Apart from strikes, it's not the same at all and your're slurring the British people by saying it is. There's not cowboy builders everywhere. Lazy, poor workmanship etc etc etc.

We are going through a tough time along with many other countries who are experiencing exactly the same problems as us. That was not the case when Dennis Healy  had to go cap in hand to the IMF. There was no world  economic crisis brought on by the double whammy of Covid  followed by the fuel crisis brought on by Russia invading the Ukraine. All our problems back in the 70's were self inflicted.

News flash - we are the sick man of Europe again. The British public are largely getting what we deserve at the moment after years of dubious voting choices and failure until recent times to take any form of action. Hopefully these strikes mean people have finally had enough.

You love giving personal anecdotes and claiming it proves an entire point so here's mine.

https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/23195726.ipswich-cardinal-lofts-evacuation-extended-2024/

I own a flat there. The developers have built an unsafe building and ignored the issues until the Government just brought in laws that legally made them pay to fix it. They have evacuated us all, changed the locks to our apartments and we've been told we can't go back for a year whilst works are finally being carried out. No compensation - just entire families in hotels with no cooking or clothes washing facilities. 

There are strikes everywhere. If you believe there are no cowboy builders, shoddy workmanship or people ripping people off you are very naïve or being deliberately obtuse.. and if you believe there's no pubs serving up slop then you've never followed Chelsea away 😂

This is a football forum but if the Mods keep letting you post drivel then these topics will keep getting derailed. 

[Sciatika]

17 hours ago, Sciatika said:

I don't think its a general thing open to anyone. It came up in a CPO document in 2011. I am not saying that it is a big issue but just that it has to be treated sensitively. 

I have been doing a bit of research on this. Unfortunately, I cannot find the original document. I wish I could because it has stuff from people's memories, some of whom are no longer with us. Anyway, the only case of a fan I can find is the father of the property developer, Nick Candy, who got special permission from Roman Abramovich in 2013.  Note the use of the word "special". It is not the norm. However, it was only to spread half the ashes on the ground rather than burying them there. Burying is, of course, a problem, because modern pitches depend on the integrity of the substrate. You can't go around digging up bits of it williy nilly. Ossie's ashes were placed under the penalty spot at the Shed End in 2006. Peter Bonetti's were interred in 2020 behind the Shed End goal.

[boratsbrother]

39 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

News flash - we are the sick man of Europe again. The British public are largely getting what we deserve at the moment after years of dubious voting choices and failure until recent times to take any form of action. Hopefully these strikes mean people have finally had enough.

 

 

 

Until the arrival of Covid the country was doing very well with unprecedented levels of investment and public soending lined up and  ready to go. You are downright lying if you say Covid and the war in Ukraine has not had a major impact on those plans and the problens we are facing today.

Seeing that you've got political  Yes, there will e a change of government next year, but here's a fact for you. Every single Labour government has left office with unemployment higher than when they took office. As always with them, their policies sound great until they run out of other people's money to spend and the shit starts to hit the fan yet again. Come the next election, Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won an election in the last 50 years. Typically for a Labour supporter, you choose to diss the British people for making bad choices. You might want to check out what Blairs advisor said in an interview with the evening standard about the behind the scenes utter contempt the party has for the British working class.

Finally. Your point about cowboy workers etc. We don't live on some perfect fàntasy island, so  yes, there is, has been and always be some bad apples in every industry and walk of of life, but overall I think overall  standards are considerably better than these days.

 

 

 

[FrankLampard8]

39 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Until the arrival of Covid the country was doing very well with unprecedented levels of investment and public spending lined up and ready to go. 

Says who? Care to share some actual evidence? 

I think you have the debates you want rather than actually reading and responding to anyone else. Nowhere have I mentioned Ukraine or covid. Of course they don't help but it's disingenuous to suggest these problems weren't brewing long before that and they aren't convenient excuses for the Government now. Tell you what hasn't helped? Dodgy Tories handing out contracts to their mates and wasting public funds on equipment that isn't fit for purpose. 

39 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Seeing that you've got political  Yes, there will e a change of government next year, but here's a fact for you. Every single Labour government has left office with unemployment higher than when they took office. As always with them, their policies sound great until they run out of other people's money to spend and the shit starts to hit the fan yet again. Come the next election, Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won an election in the last 50 years. Typically for a Labour supporter, you choose to diss the British people for making bad choices. You might want to check out what Blairs advisor said in an interview with the evening standard about the behind the scenes utter contempt the party has for the British working class.

Every post you make here is tinged with politics and frankly, i'm amazed your still allowed to post here. I don't come here to discuss this stuff but also I don't think you should be allowed to post whatever nonsense you want unchecked like our own personal Daily Mail. You have no idea what political party I align myself with so i'm not sure why you think you can label me. I happen to think Starmer is pretty much a slightly nicer, less crooked Tory to be honest however, his party literally can't do worse than the current Government. 

39 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Finally. Your point about cowboy workers etc. We don't live on some perfect fantasy island, so  yes, there is, has been and always be some bad apples in every industry and walk of of life, but overall I think overall  standards are considerably better than these days.

And why is that? No need for another essay - just simply answer why is that? Because the answer is regulation and "health and safety" and not because of the kindness of developers hearts.  Rendering your original posts and this whole debate absolutely pointless.

 

Football anyone?

Edited February 7, 2023 by FrankLampard8

[RDCW]

You guys aren't going to persuade each other, so surely it's time to stop and talk about football and specifically the stadium plans. There's plenty to disagree about there 🤣.

[FrankLampard8]

9 minutes ago, RDCW said:

You guys aren't going to persuade each other, so surely it's time to stop and talk about football and specifically the stadium plans. There's plenty to disagree about there 🤣.

To be fair he's on my ignore list now but it's been a slow morning at work 😂

Worst part is, I don't actually think there's a lot to discuss about the stadium. To the best of my knowledge there's not been much news?

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

To be fair he's on my ignore list now but it's been a slow morning at work 😂

Worst part is, I don't actually think there's a lot to discuss about the stadium. To the best of my knowledge there's not been much news?

I don't do the ignore thing (although I may myself be on a few ignore lists already 🤣), as I think it's good for the soul to be challenged, even by those for whose position you have no respect. We can always choose the high ground and not react (although I for one find it hard).

 

Real info about the stadium is sadly lacking. For my part I am a remainer! Stamford Bridge is sacred to me and has been since 1973 when I first went to what was a building site. I think if we are not preoccupied with a 60,000  seater to match the North London stadiums it is feasible to stay where we are and renovate on a stand by stand basis. I am in a minority, but I'd like the club to produce a stadium as originally intended in the plans instituted by Mears in the early seventies, where they envisaged fully enclosing the ground in stands identical to the East stand (which I believe is listed). 

Obviously the existing East would need to be properly upgraded, but I would love Stamford Bridge to be enclosed fully in East Stand style edifices, with perhaps a kop-style Shed End. It would be brutalist, forbidding and atmospheric, as well as paying tribute to the history of the Bridge. It would possibly accommodate those 60,000 people if that remains a priority.

Edited February 7, 2023 by RDCW

[McCreadie]

1 hour ago, RDCW said:

I don't do the ignore thing (although I may myself be on a few ignore lists already 🤣), as I think it's good for the soul to be challenged, even by those for whose position you have no respect. We can always choose the high ground and not react (although I for one find it hard).

 

Real info about the stadium is sadly lacking. For my part I am a remainer! Stamford Bridge is sacred to me and has been since 1973 when I first went to what was a building site. I think if we are not preoccupied with a 60,000  seater to match the North London stadiums it is feasible to stay where we are and renovate on a stand by stand basis. I am in a minority, but I'd like the club to produce a stadium as originally intended in the plans instituted by Mears in the early seventies, where they envisaged fully enclosing the ground in stands identical to the East stand (which I believe is listed). 

Obviously the existing East would need to be properly upgraded, but I would love Stamford Bridge to be enclosed fully in East Stand style edifices, with perhaps a kop-style Shed End. It would be brutalist, forbidding and atmospheric, as well as paying tribute to the history of the Bridge. It would possibly accommodate those 60,000 people if that remains a priority.

Not a fan of the East. It looked massively impressive when it was built, but we used to lose a lot whenever I went in there. And its hellish steep up the top, makes me a bit vertigoey. Not sure it can possibly be listed either, as it has only been there 10 minutes and we would never be allowed to alter it or knock it down would we.

[RDCW]

8 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

Not a fan of the East. It looked massively impressive when it was built, but we used to lose a lot whenever I went in there. And its hellish steep up the top, makes me a bit vertigoey. Not sure it can possibly be listed either, as it has only been there 10 minutes and we would never be allowed to alter it or knock it down would we.

There are listed buildings from the 70s and 80s, though not many and I think you're right that the East Stand is not one of them; it certainly received an architectural merit award and appeared on a TV  documentary I saw. I do know it divides opinion, but it would be an epic stadium if we had updated versions of that stand duplicated around the ground and a giant kop at the Shed End and it seems achievable (assuming we can comply with the sight lines between King Henry's mound and St Paul's Cathedral).

[Ham]

10 minutes ago, RDCW said:

There are listed buildings from the 70s and 80s, though not many and I think you're right that the East Stand is not one of them; it certainly received an architectural merit award and appeared on a TV  documentary I saw. I do know it divides opinion, but it would be an epic stadium if we had updated versions of that stand duplicated around the ground and a giant kop at the Shed End and it seems achievable (assuming we can comply with the sight lines between King Henry's mound and St Paul's Cathedral).

I know it's all about opinions but mine is that the East Stand is just hideous inside and out.  The sooner it's bulldozed the better. As I've said before, the footprint needs to go back way beyond the current boundary. 

On the subject of obtaining 60k, it's definitely not happening unless we dig down. Not just about the protected sightline but also right to light issues. 

 

[boratsbrother]

I don't know why the east stand gets so much flack when the other three sides have all the character of an empty cardboard box.

Anyway. Who really cares about how pretty on the eye a football stadium is? It's very insignificant when compared to what we see on the pitch. The old Wembley was a tatty ground, but imho it had far more character than the new one will ever have.