Mateo Kovacic

[JaneB]

Mateo Kovacic | Profile | Official Site | Chelsea Football Club (chelseafc.com)

[Bison]

If there is an opportunity to sell Kovacic then it should be taken quickly.

He will be 29 at the end of this season  and I don't think he warrants a new contract.

The restructuring of the midfield is the most crucial part of this rebuild. He will always show flashes of quality (because dribbling looks good on the eye) but he simply doesn't offer much in terms of defensive ability/awareness and creativity.

We won't be able to sell or get a good fee for everybody but Kovacic is one that should be bring in a decent fee.

[Ham]

24 minutes ago, Bison said:

If there is an opportunity to sell Kovacic then it should be taken quickly.

He will be 29 at the end of this season  and I don't think he warrants a new contract.

The restructuring of the midfield is the most crucial part of this rebuild. He will always show flashes of quality (because dribbling looks good on the eye) but he simply doesn't offer much in terms of defensive ability/awareness and creativity.

We won't be able to sell or get a good fee for everybody but Kovacic is one that should be bring in a decent fee.

Funny because I think he's the only one I'd definitely keep.  

[paulw66]

11 minutes ago, Ham said:

Funny because I think he's the only one I'd definitely keep.  

Ditto.

We're in slight danger of doing too much too soon too. I think we need to maintain some consistency with personnel. 

[Mark Kelly]

Personally I think Kova once operated on and fit again would be invaluable going forward , the only issue is that he apparently wants out if the rumours are to be believed.

[Bison]

Sell, sell, sell!

[boratsbrother]

The most vastly overrated Chelsea player of the last 20 years!

A nothing player who's only real attribute is flashy dribbles around the middle of the pitch which amount to sweet FA.

Edited February 6, 2023 by boratsbrother

[xceleryx]

@BisonI think that's going to be the tricky thing to do because we're unlikely to have the spending ability so far seen to repalce him, and we're also still in need of a starting calibre holding player to allow Enzo that additional freedom to maximise his qualities. That's presuming we're also able to extend Mount's contract, because that's another situation that'll need resolving very soon or we're going to be in the same situation of having to sell now or avoid losing him for nothing. Not to mention Kante's future remains unresolved also.

[FrankLampard8]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

@BisonI think that's going to be the tricky thing to do because we're unlikely to have the spending ability so far seen to repalce him, and we're also still in need of a starting calibre holding player to allow Enzo that additional freedom to maximise his qualities. That's presuming we're also able to extend Mount's contract, because that's another situation that'll need resolving very soon or we're going to be in the same situation of having to sell now or avoid losing him for nothing. Not to mention Kante's future remains unresolved also.

Yes, considering our spending there are still some huge problems and holes in this squad. Obviously we can't get held to ransom and the club seem to be trying to implement a new wage structure which could be a barrier but we simply must keep hold of Kovacic and Mount if possible. Losing those 2, possibly Kante and still needing a holding midfielder just leaves us with so much to do and there's only so many new players you want to bed in at one time - never mind a bit of continuity with the clubs past success and what it stands for. 

I can see Kovacic becoming the new Jorginho on here now that he's moved on but I guarantee pretty much every club in the league would take him if he became available (you only have to look at Jorginho going to top of the league Arsenal to realise many on here don't know what they've got). 

[McCreadie]

8 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

I can see Kovacic becoming the new Jorginho on here now that he's moved on but I guarantee pretty much every club in the league would take him if he became available (you only have to look at Jorginho going to top of the league Arsenal to realise many on here don't know what they've got). 

True. The idea that he is "A nothing player who's only real attribute is flashy dribbles around the middle of the pitch which amount to sweet FA."

is risible.

[Thiago97]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

The most vastly overrated Chelsea player of the last 20 years!

A nothing player who's only real attribute is flashy dribbles around the middle of the pitch which amount to sweet FA.

Inter Milan , Real Madrid, Chelsea then if he does leave in the summer, you can be assured it will be to a major european club. A glittering trophy cabinet with approx 20 winners medals during his club career. Close to hundred caps for a top footballing nation, world cup finalist, semi -finalist .

Yet you're right ,and every other major club, manager that picked him, and supporter who rates him, is clearly very wrong !

 

 

[boratsbrother]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Inter Milan , Real Madrid, Chelsea then if he does leave in the summer, you can be assured it will be to a major european club. A glittering trophy cabinet with approx 20 winners medals during his club career. Close to hundred caps for a top footballing nation, world cup finalist, semi -finalist .

Yet you're right ,and every other major club, manager that picked him, and supporter who rates him, is clearly very wrong !

 

 

Does he score? No!

Does he create much? No!

Is he a great passer? No!

Is he great defensively? No!

Does he lose the ball a lot in our half? Yes!

Does he make nice dribbles around the middle of the pitch? Yes!

 

 

 

 

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Does he score? No!

Does he create much? No!

Is he a great passer? No!

Is he great defensively? No!

Does he lose the ball a lot in our half? Yes!

Does he make nice dribbles around the middle of the pitch? Yes!

 

 

 

 

You’ve convinced me. I’ll ignore everything else and row in with you, based purely on this post.

[FrankLampard8]

4 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Does he score? No!

Does he create much? No!

Is he a great passer? No!

Is he great defensively? No!

Does he lose the ball a lot in our half? Yes!

Does he make nice dribbles around the middle of the pitch? Yes!

I don't think you understand modern football on a granular, tactical level. There's nothing wrong with that, people like football for different reasons, but it also means you judge players by these very black and white objectives rather than the shades of grey that make up the entire game.

What he does is progress the ball on a world class level. Something that is invaluable in the modern game with the way teams press. A quick look on fbref will show you his passing and dribbling are outstanding. He is 94th centile for shot creating actions when adjusted to take out set pieces - not bad for someone who supposedly isn't creative. He is also 99th centile for passes in to the final third and 95th for carries in to the final third so other than maybe Enzo he is undoubtedly the best player we have at progressing the ball from defence to attack - it isn't his fault that the guys in front of him don't know what to do with it once it gets there.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, FrankLampard8 said:

I don't think you understand modern football on a granular, tactical level. There's nothing wrong with that, people like football for different reasons, but it also means you judge players by these very black and white objectives rather than the shades of grey that make up the entire game.

You're right in saying that I'm not interested in modern day tactics or this xyz rollocks that goes with it. 

You can dress it however you want and try to make football a lot more complicated than it actually is, but I would take an old school midfielder all day long over the likes of a Kovacic or Jorginho. An old school midfield general like Keane. An old school defensive genius like Makalele. An old school creater like Hoddle. An old school scorer like Lampard. Any one of those types would make a huge difference to our team and the kind of player i'd be happy to see us pay £100+ million for. The only difference Kova and Jorginho have made to this team is to help make us non title contenders in every single season since they arrived.

Edited February 6, 2023 by boratsbrother

[FrankLampard8]

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

You're right in saying that I'm not interested in modern day tactics or this xyz rollocks that goes with it. 

You can dress it however you want and try to make football a lot more complicated than it actually is, but I would take an old school midfielder all day long over the likes of a Kovacic or Jorginho. An old school midfield general like Keane. An old school defensive genius like Makalele. An old school creater like Hoddle. An old school scorer like Lampard. Any one of those types would make a huge difference to our team and the kind of player i'd be happy to see us pay £100+ million for. The only difference Kova and Jorginho have made to this team is to help make us non title contenders in every single season since they arrived.

Ohhhh so what you're saying is we would be a lot better if we had one of the greatest midfielders to ever play the game in our side? Got it. I think it might be easy to oversimply football too. 

[flllerywhereru2]

I agree with some here that Kovavic is a top class modern midfielder. The role of the midfielder has changed due to the increased athleticism of players and those who can hold onto posession/ turn defence into attack quickly are very valuable. Kovavic is such a player and has been at the most successful club in europe and at one of them in Chelsea. He does score many goals and he doesnt make Fabregas style defence splitting passes but actually how many do in the modern game? Klopps Liverpool won the league with Henderson, Wijnaaldum and Milner as regulars-those guys are workers though WQijnaaldum chipped in with some important goals. Their goal getters lay further up the field and those guys merely gave them the platform to do so. actually their full backs were more in the mould of the old school creative midfielder. 

City are different, they have de Bruynne one of the few creative midfielders by the old school definition, perhaps arsenal have one in Odegard, United in Erikssen but he doesnt score that often either or dribble round people. Modric perhaps the standout midfield player of last decade he doesnt score much makes a few assists. The game has changed, these guys are jet quick and have the stamina of top level athletes, the old school midfielders wouldnt stand a chance in the modern game if they were caught up the field. I can understand people not finding the modern game midfielder as attractive to watch but to say the likes of Kovavic is not a good footballer is simply not true.

 

[Mark Kelly]

I think the biggest issue with Kovacic is he's been carrying an injury all season , all through the World cup and part of last season , I think that's why he reportedly wants to leave because we've never employed enough comparable midfielders so he's been overplayed 

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

You're right in saying that I'm not interested in modern day tactics or this xyz rollocks that goes with it. 

You can dress it however you want and try to make football a lot more complicated than it actually is, but I would take an old school midfielder all day long over the likes of a Kovacic or Jorginho. An old school midfield general like Keane. An old school defensive genius like Makalele. An old school creater like Hoddle. An old school scorer like Lampard. Any one of those types would make a huge difference to our team and the kind of player i'd be happy to see us pay £100+ million for. The only difference Kova and Jorginho have made to this team is to help make us non title contenders in every single season since they arrived.

That’s a complete different conversation! If you had said that, then I doubt many would disagree.

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, FrankLampard8 said:

Ohhhh so what you're saying is we would be a lot better if we had one of the greatest midfielders to ever play the game in our side? Got it. I think it might be easy to oversimply football too. 

Exactly !

[Bison]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

@BisonI think that's going to be the tricky thing to do because we're unlikely to have the spending ability so far seen to repalce him, and we're also still in need of a starting calibre holding player to allow Enzo that additional freedom to maximise his qualities. That's presuming we're also able to extend Mount's contract, because that's another situation that'll need resolving very soon or we're going to be in the same situation of having to sell now or avoid losing him for nothing. Not to mention Kante's future remains unresolved also.

Well we need to sell some players sooner rather than later to help balance the books and Kovacic would be no great loss in my opinion.

If we consider Nkunku as a done deal then our attack shouldn't be the main focus moving forward. Neither should the defence considering we have Gusto signed up.

The focus should be how we improve the centre midfield positions. Enzo was an excellent start but the job isn't finished. If you can get some money in for Kovacic and upgrade (Rice, Caicedo for example) it is a no brainer.

*Goalkeeper position should also be addressed this summer.

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

Well we need to sell some players sooner rather than later to help balance the books and Kovacic would be no great loss in my opinion.

I'm not a huge fan of Kovacic and agree the squad needs trimming and books balancing, but I think the issue with selling him and the likes of Pulisic is that they probably won't help much with that, at least not in a FFP sense. Their transfer fees are almost off the books anyway, so you don't get much accounting bang for your buck. I think we'll see Gallagher and/or Chalobah go for that reason.

[Rob B]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

 Their transfer fees are almost off the books anyway, so you don't get much accounting bang for your buck. I think we'll see Gallagher and/or Chalobah go for that reason.

Isn't it the opposite of what you’ve just described?  ie their transfer fees are almost off the books so any fee you get is pure bunce on the bottom line?  

Unlike someone like Havertz (for example) where we probably have 3 years of his fee still to book? 

[boratsbrother]

4 hours ago, FrankLampard8 said:

Ohhhh so what you're saying is we would be a lot better if we had one of the greatest midfielders to ever play the game in our side? Got it. I think it might be easy to oversimply football too. 

I just put names to the types of old school players who lay waste to a lot of what is around today. Football has changed, as it always does, but it's not changed for the better,  as we can see with a moderate Argentinian side being world champs.

 

 

[Rob B]

Just now, Rob B said:

Isn't it the opposite of what you’ve just described?  ie their transfer fees are almost off the books so any fee you get is pure bunce on the bottom line?  

Unlike someone like Havertz (for example) where we probably have 3 years of his fee still to book? 

I’ve just realised what you’re saying (I think) -  because their transfer fees are almost booked, their future costs are less and therefore keeping them around is kinder in terms of FFP than someone who we owe a huge fee on - which I guess is true.

But you could look it at both ways…once their transfer fee is booked, selling a Pulisic or a Kovacic becomes no different to selling an academy product. If anything it’s better as their wages will be higher