Mark Kelly Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 21 minutes ago, Dwmh said: No - another reason to wonder how Poch got employed after being out of a job for 24 of the last 42 months. It isn't as though the clamp down on dissent wasn't clearly announced in advance. He isn't managing the team. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Dwmh said: No - another reason to wonder how Poch got employed after being out of a job for 24 of the last 42 months. It isn't as though the clamp down on dissent wasn't clearly announced in advance. He isn't managing the team. And who would've you hired to develop this team out of sheer curiosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 9 hours ago, xceleryx said: And who would've you hired to develop this team out of sheer curiosity? Oh sure we were Fxxxed for a manager. As we already were in most respects. I'm not sure we could get a better one. That is the point*. He is at least better than Lampard, but not Potter. I'm not sure what tipped us from being a 74 point team last year to a 44 point one (though a player revolt seems part of it, if not the root cause). But once on that kind of vertiginous slide it is near impossible to reverse it. That is the nature of football. Best hope is a dead cat bounce at some point. * I am just wondering. We have hired otherwise unemployed managers before, Lampard, Benitez, Hiddink I guess. But only as temps. Did we ever hire a currently unemployed manager under RA to announce him as permanent? I think we have always poached men in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 56 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Oh sure we were Fxxxed for a manager. As we already were in most respects. I'm not sure we could get a better one. That is the point*. He is at least better than Lampard, but not Potter. I'm not sure what tipped us from being a 74 point team last year to a 44 point one (though a player revolt seems part of it, if not the root cause). But once on that kind of vertiginous slide it is near impossible to reverse it. That is the nature of football. Best hope is a dead cat bounce at some point. * I am just wondering. We have hired otherwise unemployed managers before, Lampard, Benitez, Hiddink I guess. But only as temps. Did we ever hire a currently unemployed manager under RA to announce him as permanent? I think we have always poached men in place. At this moment in time I think we should just be grateful the name of Roberto Martinez hasn't come up 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Aye. I guess both Poch and Potter (and perhaps Lamps) are more of a yes men, who are happy being dominated by the owners or their people. Unlike Tuchel, Bielsa etc 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said: At this moment in time I think we should just be grateful the name of Roberto Martinez hasn't come up Don't even joke about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asvaberg Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 minute ago, McCreadie said: Don't even joke about that. Is he worse than the Spanish waiter? 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, asvaberg said: Is he worse than the Spanish waiter? 😁 He's one of the great tactical minds of his generation , just ask him , he'll tell you. Like Arteta without the charm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My Blood Is Blue Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 4 hours ago, Dwmh said: * I am just wondering. We have hired otherwise unemployed managers before, Lampard, Benitez, Hiddink I guess. But only as temps. Did we ever hire a currently unemployed manager under RA to announce him as permanent? I think we have always poached men in place. Tuchel was unemployed when we got him in and he did alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said: Tuchel was unemployed when we got him in and he did alright. Aha , I missed that, but it was only 4 weeks after he was sacked. The kind of timing that might have seen us approach him (or his agent approach us) before PSG grabbed the superior position by sacking him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 We know the answer to the replacement manager question, it's just that some don't fancy the answer, or what it might mean for the recruit 'em young strategy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpokey24 Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 On 29/11/2023 at 12:01, Floyd25 said: Sounds like a Disasi waiting to happen. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 13 hours ago, Dwmh said: Oh sure we were Fxxxed for a manager. As we already were in most respects. I'm not sure we could get a better one. That is the point*. He is at least better than Lampard, but not Potter. I'm not sure what tipped us from being a 74 point team last year to a 44 point one (though a player revolt seems part of it, if not the root cause). But once on that kind of vertiginous slide it is near impossible to reverse it. That is the nature of football. Best hope is a dead cat bounce at some point. * I am just wondering. We have hired otherwise unemployed managers before, Lampard, Benitez, Hiddink I guess. But only as temps. Did we ever hire a currently unemployed manager under RA to announce him as permanent? I think we have always poached men in place. So you agree alternative, if not better options, were slim to nil. I get it, you don't rate Poch but claiming he's a worse manager than Potter is preposterous. Whether you choose to gauge it via the eye test, or through sheer numbers, Pochettino comes out ahead. There's no real world where Potter is a better manager, no matter how much you try and push that narrative. What tipped us from being a 74 point team in 2021/22 to a 44 point one in 2022/23 is quite simple. Injuries to key players, some hitting a natural decline, others continuing to be inconsistent, and hiring Potter - a manager who was entirely out of his depth the moment in stepped through the door and was getting by earning 1.28 Points Per Match across his Brighton stint. Who, I might add, also had a problem with getting his team to score goals. His sides perpetually sat at the depths of the goalscoring table. Taking that across to aside that was struggling in attack already, it was never going to mesh well - and it didn't. Does it really matter if we've hired from the unemployed pool before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd25 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Doesn’t matter who we have in charge, which is why I was skeptical about firing Potter last season. Who is available and would they seriously make a big improvement? We need experienced quality in this team, something these clueless owners don’t grasp, they think it’s the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd25 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 14 hours ago, Bones said: I guess both Poch and Potter (and perhaps Lamps) Lamps came back because he can’t say no to Chelsea in my opinion, listening to him since he left it’s clear that he didn’t quite realise the shambles he was walking in to. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 7 hours ago, xceleryx said: What tipped us from being a 74 point team in 2021/22 to a 44 point one in 2022/23 is quite simple. Injuries to key players, some hitting a natural decline, others continuing to be inconsistent, and hiring Potter - a manager who was entirely out of his depth the moment in stepped through the door and was getting by earning 1.28 Points Per Match across his Brighton stint. Who, I might add, also had a problem with getting his team to score goals. His sides perpetually sat at the depths of the goalscoring table. Taking that across to aside that was struggling in attack already, it was never going to mesh well - and it didn't. Agree with about Potter however you always dodge the recruitment part, January was a Joke and ultimately killed off the poor season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 5 hours ago, Floyd25 said: Lamps came back because he can’t say no to Chelsea in my opinion, listening to him since he left it’s clear that he didn’t quite realise the shambles he was walking in to. Lampard came back because upper management didn't have a plan B, like most things at the bunker club, the owners shot from the hip without thinking of the consequences. Potter might as well have been left in place until the summer as the damage was already done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 9 hours ago, xceleryx said: I get it, you don't rate Poch but claiming he's a worse manager than Potter is preposterous. Whether you choose to gauge it via the eye test, or through sheer numbers, Pochettino comes out ahead. There's no real world where Potter is a better manager, no matter how much you try and push that narrative. Potter PL W10 D8 L10 38 points in 28 games (1.36pts a game) + reached the QF stage of CL with a record of W5 D1 L1 (even the loss was overturned in 2nd leg Potterino PL W4 D4 L5 16 points in 13 games (1.23pts a game) eye test, numbers I accept Potter's sacking saved him from 2 inevitable RM defeats. But it also lead to Lampard PL W1 D2 L6 Potter is a better manager than Potterino. The issue is not that we need to change Potterino. The issue is that crap recruitment at all levels and a deliberate avoidance of experienced players caused a collapse which we are unable to get out of except through lots more £100m players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 On 29/11/2023 at 18:54, Max Fowler said: We are top of the league I learned yesterday. The yellow card league. I would have thought @Max Fowler would have known that already. Are you Conor in disguise? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sciatika Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 No Gusto. Injury update ahead of Brighton | News | Official Site | Chelsea Football Club (chelseafc.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Sciatika said: No Gusto. Injury update ahead of Brighton | News | Official Site | Chelsea Football Club (chelseafc.com) Very informative. 🤔 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 On 30/11/2023 at 11:23, Dwmh said: * I am just wondering. We have hired otherwise unemployed managers before, Lampard, Benitez, Hiddink I guess. But only as temps. Did we ever hire a currently unemployed manager under RA to announce him as permanent? I think we have always poached men in place. With a mixed record. Roman's permanent appointments: JM - success Grant - very close to being a success but lasted less than a year Scolari - awful Carlo - success AVB - awful RdM - didn't last long after interim success JM - success Conte - 50/50. Great first year, terrible second Sarri - not going to get into another discussion, but he finished 3rd and won the Europa Lampard - did well when there was no money / expectation, then out of his depth Tuchel - success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, paulw66 said: With a mixed record. Roman's permanent appointments: JM - success Grant - very close to being a success but lasted less than a year Scolari - awful Carlo - success AVB - awful RdM - didn't last long after interim success JM - success Conte - 50/50. Great first year, terrible second Sarri - not going to get into another discussion, but he finished 3rd and won the Europa Lampard - did well when there was no money / expectation, then out of his depth Tuchel - success I was a loud proclaimer at the time that Grant was always a supply teacher, not permanent. Indeed with JM threatening to fly off the handle weekly, that was the purpose he was brought in for, the little yellow replacement tyre some have in their car. The difference between him and Hiddink was that Hiddink didn't need bigging up to the players. Lampard aside I mostly agree with your assessments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Brighton have a lot of injuries. If we lose, I think Poch is a dead man walking. After the double training sessions and Brighton playing on Thursday - a bad performance and I won’t believe Poch can get a tune out of these players any more. He may be the most qualified but he also may not be the right man to get the best out of our squad right now. A big win is also possible and could also say a lot for Poch. We should be expecting to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 I genuinely think we could win 4-1 but no idea which way it will really go tbh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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