Premier League

[Mark Kelly]

I wonder how long before Guardiola is questioning the FA's stance on drug tests

[Mark Kelly]

I see Jesse Marsch has been sacked by Leeds which is a surprise as he's a genius coach , just ask him , he'll tell you.

[chara]

Sorry....I take no pleasure in reading of the Citeh issues.

My first thought was for the genuine supporters.

That the charges are justifiable I have little doubt and if proven should be punished according to the text book.

No sympathy for the present Citeh Ownership but of course they took their position after watching Chelsea ruin football so it IS ultimately our fault.

Nothing happens in a vacuum and I don't suppose for a minute the charges came out of the blue for the club.

Could explain some of the recent non Citeh appearances?

Sorry day for football and I refuse to take the gleeful stand so many in the "Football Family" took when Chelsea were under the cosh last year.

Makes RA look like Mother Teresa and our new Leaders like models of business ethics.

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

I see Jesse Marsch has been sacked by Leeds which is a surprise as he's a genius coach , just ask him , he'll tell you.

Sorry to quote myself here but someone on Facebook referred to Marsch as "Yank Lampard" which despite the hurt is quite funny .

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, chara said:

Sorry....I take no pleasure in reading of the Citeh issues.

My first thought was for the genuine supporters.

That the charges are justifiable I have little doubt and if proven should be punished according to the text book.

No sympathy for the present Citeh Ownership but of course they took their position after watching Chelsea ruin football so it IS ultimately our fault.

Not sure if you are being totally sincere or not here but there is one big difference. We never broke any rules. The rules may have been put in place , at least partly, because of us but there was nothing stopping us doing what we did. City have blatantly cheated for years and their fans have lapped it up. I have no sympathy for anyone associated with the club, including their fans.

2 hours ago, chara said:

Sorry day for football and I refuse to take the gleeful stand so many in the "Football Family" took when Chelsea were under the cosh last year.

Well we were completely and utterly shit on for things that had absolutely nothing to do with football and the gleeful stand others took was absolutely disgraceful. 

I think it's only fair that City get the biggest, most harshest punishment possible, they cheated for best part of a decade and it really was blatant. That they may now get punished, is a good day for football and sport in general and I for one will take massive pleasure in seeing them suffer.

2 hours ago, chara said:

Makes RA look like Mother Teresa and our new Leaders like models of business ethics.

 

[chara]

@martin1905

I think I was sincere although I take your point about the fans.

I was influenced by thinking of all the honest fans across the game so probably kinder than Citeh fans may deserve,,,completely TIC regarding it being ultimately our fault!

A good day for football but sad that it has come to this...my somewhat naive Roy Of The Rovers vision of the game once more brought down to earth by the realities....if the WC example wasn't enough!

[Ham]

6 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Fascinating... nice that it isn't Chelsea for once.

I would be shocked if they managed to be cleared of everything again, the PL have been investigating them for years, building up a lot of evidence and would not have taken this step, against one of their own teams, lightly.

Going to be a long process, but I am intrigued to see what starts coming out in terms of rule breaking.

 

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

According to Martyn Ziegler of The Times, City won't be able to appeal to the CAS, which is what saved them when UEFA charged them with (fewer) similar breaches a few seasons ago.

Yes, sort of.  They got off the UEFA charge on a UEFA technicality whereby the evidence was time-barred.  No such exit available with PL rules.

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

I have sympathy for the genuine City fans, of course, it’s their club that’s being dragged through the courts for cheating… not a nice feeling and the fear of what punishments you may get. But let’s not think most of those fans haven’t absolutely lapped up the trophies over the years, even when clear the club were cooking the books.

However, I have zero sympathy for the club overall, they have cheated for years and years and it’s why (for me at least) their success has never really bothered me, because it just doesn’t feel real, the whole club doesn’t feel real let alone their success.

Whatever the punishment is, I hope it isn’t just a fine, that would mean nothing at all. I would imagine they will look to hit them hard, with a points deduction and titles stripped and a possibly even worse and kick them out the league. As long as they can make the charges stick… the lawyers will do everything they can to find a loop hole.

Many fans have tried to compare our club to Man City, but we are entirely different and this proves it.

[Ham]

4 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I have sympathy for the genuine City fans, of course, it’s their club that’s being dragged through the courts for cheating… not a nice feeling and the fear of what punishments you may get. But let’s not think most of those fans haven’t absolutely lapped up the trophies over the years, even when clear the club were cooking the books.

However, I have zero sympathy for the club overall, they have cheated for years and years and it’s why (for me at least) their success has never really bothered me, because it just doesn’t feel real, the whole club doesn’t feel real let alone their success.

Whatever the punishment is, I hope it isn’t just a fine, that would mean nothing at all. I would imagine they will look to hit them hard, with a points deduction and titles stripped and a possibly even worse and kick them out the league. As long as they can make the charges stick… the lawyers will do everything they can to find a loop hole.

Many fans have tried to compare our club to Man City, but we are entirely different and this proves it.

I don't see how they can get away with the charge of refusing to provide documentation (in relation to the fake sponsorships).  They're bang to rights as the documents in question were published by Football leaks.  

Everyone knows they exist. They refused to supply them and used the "time-barred" technicality to avoid being forced to.

They're going down, and rightly so. 

 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

6 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't see how they can get away with the charge of refusing to provide documentation (in relation to the fake sponsorships).  They're bang to rights as the documents in question were published by Football leaks.  

Everyone knows they exist. They refused to supply them and used the "time-barred" technicality to avoid being forced to.

They're going down, and rightly so. 

 

 

Yep, it certainly seems so. It’s going to come down to whether their lawyers can find any loopholes to lessen the charges… I struggle to see how that would be possible, but I’m not a lawyer and don’t have all the details.

What will Pep do and when… that’s the next question. 

[east lower]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Yep, it certainly seems so. It’s going to come down to whether their lawyers can find any loopholes to lessen the charges… 

They will have the very best lawyers and access to almost limitless funding……………I’ll be surprised if they get any punishment other than financial penalties. 

[Ham]

33 minutes ago, east lower said:

They will have the very best lawyers and access to almost limitless funding……………I’ll be surprised if they get any punishment other than financial penalties. 

Unless the evidence is there and they have NO defence. 

[Bob Singleton]

The Twitterati are all getting over-excited at the thought of City being stripped of titles, having 15pts deducted, etc. etc.

If there are any point deductions, it won't be until the 3 man investigating panel have reported (and it'll all be done in private until the findings are published) and Murray Rosen KC hasn't yet named that panel. The panel could easily take over a year (some have suggested as long as three years!) to report back, so any points deductions won't affect this season.

It's also been suggested by more level-headed types that the PL won't want to act retrospectively (ie stripping titles as happened to Juventus). If that did happen, that would mean Brendan Rogers being a PL winning manager!!! 😱 

Relegation, however, is very much on the cards, along with severe financial penalties, potential European bans of 5+ years, transfer bans, etc. Over 100 potential infractions means the balance is very much tipped against them. City would need pretty much every charge to be thrown out not to have the threat of one or more of these sanctions hang over them.

As for lawyers... yes City have huge financial resources, but so do the PL. Stefan Borson (@slbsn) a former Man City financial advisor has tweeted some interesting stuff today.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11717923/Man-City-Premier-League-charges-lead-RELEGATION-proven-says-former-financial-advisor.html

[martin1905]

I'm no legal expert but surely lawyers, even high end lawyers only cost so much and id imagine the premier League is pretty wealthy and can afford half decent ones themselves?

I can't see it being a case of who can afford the best legal team, when both can easily get the best of the best.

It could come down to morals though and how corrupt the people involved are, or how much it will take for them not to be booted out of the league.

 

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Unless the evidence is there and they have NO defence. 

UEFA had a go and failed, albeit time-barring helped City.

Never underestimate the power of wealth. They’ll both have very good lawyers, City will have more of them and can well afford to drag it out. They could make the PL a great deal  less wealthy and the sums involved would be relatively affordable for City’s owners

If they have mis-used their wealth and power then so be it and they deserve requisite punishment, but their owners were interviewed and seemed extremely bullish. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by east lower

[Ham]

9 minutes ago, east lower said:

UEFA had a go and failed, albeit time-barring helped City.

Never underestimate the power of wealth. They’ll both have very good lawyers, City will have more of them and can well afford to drag it out. They could make the PL a great deal  less wealthy and the sums involved would be relatively affordable for City’s owners

If they have mis-used their wealth and power then so be it and they deserve requisite punishment, but their owners were interviewed and seemed extremely bullish. 

Yes they did on the subject of the UEFA investigation because they knew they had technicalities up their sleeve. They even taunted UEFA about how they would bankrupt the organisation if needed. 

I reckon they're a lot more nervous this time round. 

 

 

[chara]

@martin1905 @east lower Corruption comes disguised as many things but still is corruption....WC corruption was so blatent on one hand but in a sophisticated bullet proof dinner jacket. 

I expect to see such dealings as the case proceeds.

Bullish?...yep but only GP goes into battle touching his forelock.

IF this is a serious effort by the FA then monetary punishment will not suffice if the case  is proven....

Again..innocent until etc but pointless title retractions and fines are worthless except for bank accounts somewhere.......real punishment means at least serious points deductions at the start of a season as well as during..clubs in financial disarray get that as standard,,,Derby v Citeh on a scale of misbehaviour? 

Relegated ?...hmm...how long would the $$$ pipeline and/or ownership continue?

[Bob Singleton]

26 minutes ago, Ham said:

Yes they did on the subject of the UEFA investigation because they knew they had technicalities up their sleeve. They even taunted UEFA about how they would bankrupt the organisation if needed. 

I reckon they're a lot more nervous this time round.

 

So they should be. Luton's "financial misconduct" was as nothing compared to the allegations currently levelled at City, and they got a 30pt deduction in 2008. I'm not sure anyone outside of City supporters would accept anything less than relegation.

[Ham]

16 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

So they should be. Luton's "financial misconduct" was as nothing compared to the allegations currently levelled at City, and they got a 30pt deduction in 2008. I'm not sure anyone outside of City supporters would accept anything less than relegation.

For 10 years of deliberate and uber-arrogant malpractice I can't see a points deduction being enough if the PL wants to show it has teeth.  

 

 

[xceleryx]

I feel for the Man City faithful that've followed them from the lower leagues, but otherwise I'm not taking too much joy out of their situation as a whole. It's good that their dodgy wages are being exposed, we've all known it after all, but the only real gratification I'm getting from this whole ordeal is that it's saved us from having to see Liverpool and Man Utd win during this 10 year period. The salty Liverpool tears is what I'm going to lap up the most from this. 

[chara]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

For 10 years of deliberate and uber-arrogant malpractice I can't see a points deduction being enough if the PL wants to show it has teeth.  

 

 

Serious question Ham, no sarcasm from me...what do you consider a just punishment?

[Michael Tucker]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Serious question Ham, no sarcasm from me...what do you consider a just punishment?

For me, a just punishment would equate to stripping them of any titles won while they  were cheating. 

[chara]

3 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I feel for the Man City faithful that've followed them from the lower leagues, but otherwise I'm not taking too much joy out of their situation as a whole. It's good that their dodgy wages are being exposed, we've all known it after all, but the only real gratification I'm getting from this whole ordeal is that it's saved us from having to see Liverpool and Man Utd win during this 10 year period. The salty Liverpool tears is what I'm going to lap up the most from this. 

Pretty much my first reaction regarding the real faithful.

The saddened reaction (at the disgrace mainly to the game) from some here is in stark contrast to the glee and joy expressed when Chelsea faced real non

self-inflicted adversity.

The hard liners also look at the offences with no glee or joy as far as I can see.

 

[chara]

14 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

For me, a just punishment would equate to stripping them of any titles won while they  were cheating. 

Not unreasonable MT but unless that entailed loss of prizewinning cash (and reallocation!) it would basically only affect the fans and as we know the money side is irrelevant for practical purposes.

Punishment where it hurts..not cosmetic.

Chelsea in many ways were crippled by financial "restraints" HMG handed down for what seems in retrospect a very dubious reason..if the case is proven will Citeh have all income frozen? restraints on "trade"...Citeh appear to have flaunted the basic rules not found themselves victims of circumstances as much as anything else.(And the opportunity for "revenge" by shadowy entities,,paranoid as I may be!)

Added whilst editing,,redistribution of prize money would be an accountants nightmare I believe.

Edited February 6, 2023 by chara

[boratsbrother]

If City are not demoted to League 2,  then put your house on the likes of Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal quitting the EPL and forming the Super League and this time I believe the vast majority of fans will be all for it 

I gather talks are already underway with  a more appealing and fair League with two divisions which will have promotion and relegation. I'd be in favour of us joining if there is promotion and relegation.