Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 Chelsea 1

[boratsbrother]

13 hours ago, xceleryx said:

 

The players are just as accountable, if not more so, in a lot of dropped points this season. There's only so much a manager can do, he's not exactly responsible for some of the gaffs we've seen at either end of the pitch. 

Yes, it's unfair to blame any manager for the players making very basic individual mistakes which  cost  a team a lot of goals at both ends of the pitch. Blame managers for poor tactics, team selection, substitutions etc, but not for brainless players having brain farts. 

Btw. I was shocked to see that stat about us not being behind at HT in any match this season. Very strange and puzzling why any team should be doing ok in the first half but so poorly in the second. So odd that I'm not sure even a Pep or Klopp would have an answer to that one.

[Dwmh]

4 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Btw. I was shocked to see that stat about us not being behind at HT in any match this season. Very strange and puzzling why any team should be doing ok in the first half but so poorly in the second. So odd that I'm not sure even a Pep or Klopp would have an answer to that one.

I guess it takes 45 mins for the oppo players to believe what the oppo coaches have been telling them all week.  We are there for the taking.

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I guess it takes 45 mins for the oppo players to believe what the oppo coaches have been telling them all week.  We are there for the taking.

Spot on. 

Outhunk by everyone. 

[boratsbrother]

18 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I guess it takes 45 mins for the oppo players to believe what the oppo coaches have been telling them all week.  We are there for the taking.

You got me there, smart arse😀

[Bones]

No effort from Sterling to try and make himself available after missing that big chance🤦‍♂️

That is what is most frustrating about him he is a very good player and sometimes you can make a bad decision etc but when you arent putting the effort it should be below standard and unacceptable in our club!

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Bones said:

No effort from Sterling to try and make himself available after missing that big chance🤦‍♂️

That is what is most frustrating about him he is a very good player and sometimes you can make a bad decision etc but when you arent putting the effort it should be below standard and unacceptable in our club!

 

I would have said that for a season and a half he is the only forward player than makes a real effort to get into scoring positions when the ball is on the other side.
I'd say his effort levels have been way above average for the team.

[chara]

Raheem...he is still the same player he always was....in a top side he can be and was very effective as there are other threats to defences....capable of looking absolute World Class and then making me..for one...wonder if his football brain would work on a cold Sunday Morning at grass roots!

Easier to see at England level when he has at times seemed to be the pivot along with "arry but other times I despair that he could make the right decision picking his right boot for his right foot!

I have never disliked him but he is who he is...accept that and a lot of stress will be avoided!

[xceleryx]

17 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

If it wasn't for the fact that he's been here half a season with a reputation as THE man who can train young kids into top players and the longer he's "working" with them the worse they are getting ,  I'd agree .

They look un-coached if anything , can't defend set pieces , can't take them , no defensive fortitude , a midfield that is neither a shield for the defence or a support to the attack , there's no cohesive plan when attacking , nobody appears to know their roles they play as individuals not a unit . When we do spring an attack the opposition then counter and were all over the place , nobody in positions you d expect them to be in , it's like under tens football where they're all chasing the ball on mass!

Any ideas what they do all week? Is he in pointless meetings ?. Where the evidence of the coaching ? One player is exceeding expectations and like Lampard before him Gallagher seems to be driving himself on.

Pochettino isn't earning his money .

And he's done that to a degree - see Gallagher, Palmer, Gusto (somewhat), etc. The fact we've hardly been able to field the same set of player regularly enough to build rhythm and consistency doesn't help when it comes to development and improvement either. Not to say Poch has been perfect, he hasn't, but our team changes every week because of unavailabilities.

How much of that goes hand-in-hand with being a young team that lacks experience though. We know young players have shortcomings, a lot of the focus is put on their skills but what's often ignored in this whole situation is the mental part of the game. That's often developed through experience as players naturally mature as people and as footballers. Again, not saying Poch can dust his hand free of any responsibility but he's also not the one out there getting caught in possession, turning the ball over, missing guilt edged chances, losing their marker on set pieces, etc. We could have the most elite manager in football but coaching only goes so far once out on the pitch, the execution is on the players at the end of the day.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

And he's done that to a degree - see Gallagher, Palmer, Gusto (somewhat), etc.

Gallagher hasn't changed a bit since he first emerged in the Championship.
Palmer hit the ground running because - he had been trained by an excellent coach, better when he made his debut than now,
Gusto hasn't impressed much in 7 starts,
Broja, Jackson, Mudryk, Colwill, Badashille, Caicedo have all been unimpressive or worse than they were last season or both.

 

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

How much of that goes hand-in-hand with being a young team that lacks experience though.

We are all pleased that you recognise how stupid having such a young and inexperienced team is.
But still puzzled how you manage to avoid any criticism of the people who lead us to such a stupid squad.
Defending Poch is defending the straw man - who decided we would have 12 squad members aged 24 or older, with 2 frequently injured, 2 more injured from the start of the season with 1 appearance between them,  one aged 39, 3 of them GKs and another not even registered to play.
It is basically Silva + 4 adults.

If you don't want to blame Poch - who should take responsibility?

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, Dwmh said:

If you don't want to blame Poch - who should take responsibility?

I've never claimed Poch to be blame free, some simple comprehension skills will showcase that. What I do dispute however is that he's the crux of our issues. 

There isn't one singular problem on hand where if fixed will magically transform the side, it's a multi layered situation that requires several responsible parties to lift. 

We need ownership/the transfer department to focus on bringing in more players that can raise the floor level and take some responsibility away from the younger players, we need management to improve in certain areas where they're making decisions, and we need the players themselves to take greater initiative out on the pitch come match day. 

[Sleeping Dave]

This result is not surprising in the least. The starting XI was abysmal and a front two of both Jackson and Broja should  clearly never be an option again. 

That with a starting midfield of Gallagher and Big Les. Devoid of any creativity. 

This team will continue to frustrate until we find a stable platform in defense and a couple of goal scorers. Very much same story as the last few years, only now we’ve made sure to remove all experience from the side (with the hope this batch will be better than the last). 

[ROTG]

50 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I've never claimed Poch to be blame free, some simple comprehension skills will showcase that. What I do dispute however is that he's the crux of our issues. 

There isn't one singular problem on hand where if fixed will magically transform the side, it's a multi layered situation that requires several responsible parties to lift. 

We need ownership/the transfer department to focus on bringing in more players that can raise the floor level and take some responsibility away from the younger players, we need management to improve in certain areas where they're making decisions, and we need the players themselves to take greater initiative out on the pitch come match day. 

Where does the money come from to buy these experienced players?

Also would TBSD be prepared to change their ethos as experienced quality players require top salaries?

just putting it out there. 

[ROTG]

41 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

This result is not surprising in the least. The starting XI was abysmal and a front two of both Jackson and Broja should  clearly never be an option again. 

That with a starting midfield of Gallagher and Big Les. Devoid of any creativity. 

This team will continue to frustrate until we find a stable platform in defense and a couple of goal scorers. Very much same story as the last few years, only now we’ve made sure to remove all experience from the side (with the hope this batch will be better than the last). 

The problem stems from the coach seemingly trying to build a team around the owners ego buy Enzo.  Don’t get me wrong he is a good player but is no way and elite game changing type player 

 

As for the past few years although no Cesc esq, we had players like Jorghino who could change games with game changing pin point passes. In sum respects him coming to Chelsea rather than Chitty was a blessing in disguise for the PL and keeping the league attainable for clubs rather than a one horse race. 

[Thiago97]

12 minutes ago, ROTG said:

The problem stems from the coach seemingly trying to build a team around the owners ego buy Enzo.  Don’t get me wrong he is a good player but is no way and elite game changing type player 

 

As for the past few years although no Cesc esq, we had players like Jorghino who could change games with game changing pin point passes. In sum respects him coming to Chelsea rather than Chitty was a blessing in disguise for the PL and keeping the league attainable for clubs rather than a one horse race. 

I have read this second paragraph about 5 times, and I still don’t really understand what you are saying !

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it’s praising Jorginho for something that didn’t really happen often, nor was he ever really game changing. Are you implying that had Jorginho joined City they would have won 6/6 titles , rather than 5/6 league titles in recent years ! bizarre view!
 

[ROTG]

5 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I have read this second paragraph about 5 times, and I still don’t really understand what you are saying !

Maybe I am reading it wrong, but it’s praising Jorginho for something that didn’t really happen often, nor was he ever really game changing. Are you implying that had Jorginho joined City they would have won 6/6 titles , rather than 5/6 league titles in recent years ! bizarre view!
 

Go look at the trophy cabinet with Jorginho at Chelsea.  
Says it all really.

I dread to think Chitty’s extra trophies would have won, if he had not followed Sarri to Chelsea. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by ROTG

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Go look at the trophy cabinet with Jorginho at Chelsea.  
Says it all really.

Ok I’m convinced based on this reply. Jorginho joins City was a complete blessing for the remainder of the PL and it avoided domestic domination……..fairyland stuff

[ROTG]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

Ok I’m convinced based on this reply. Jorginho joins City was a complete blessing for the remainder of the PL and it avoided domestic domination……..fairyland stuff

Chitty have walked the PL  5/6 in the time Jorginho was at Chelsea. Probably would have been 6/6 and maybe an extra couple of CL if he had gone to Chitty. 

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Chitty have walked the PL  5/6 in the time Jorginho was at Chelsea. Probably would have been 6/6 and maybe an extra couple of CL if he had gone to Chitty. 

Yet he couldn’t help get his current team over the line, despite joining them when top of the league with about a third of the season to go!

I can see why you would think he is a huge game changer that defines where the title goes each season. Xmas on the sherry with the flock 😂

[Bones]

12 hours ago, Dwmh said:

I would have said that for a season and a half he is the only forward player than makes a real effort to get into scoring positions when the ball is on the other side.
I'd say his effort levels have been way above average for the team.

Shows how low the average is then!

[Dwmh]

58 minutes ago, ROTG said:

The problem stems from the coach seemingly trying to build a team around the owners ego buy Enzo.  Don’t get me wrong he is a good player but is no way and elite game changing type player 

 

As for the past few years although no Cesc esq, we had players like Jorghino who could change games with game changing pin point passes. In sum respects him coming to Chelsea rather than Chitty was a blessing in disguise for the PL and keeping the league attainable for clubs rather than a one horse race. 

10 out of 10 for being provocative.
But 8 out of 10 for accuracy (without a lot of truth nothing is funny or provokes)

[ROTG]

42 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Yet he couldn’t help get his current team over the line, despite joining them when top of the league with about a third of the season to go!

I can see why you would think he is a huge game changer that defines where the title goes each season. Xmas on the sherry with the flock 😂

En-route to the flock. 

 unfortunately sherry’s or any alcoholic tipple are frowned upon by those above. 😀

[patThenevin]

On 25/12/2023 at 13:54, boratsbrother said:

People going a bit OTT with the doom and gloom and acting like there's no way out of this difficult situation we're currently in.

Despite the long contracts and money spent, there will always be a way to move players on and I'm sure some will be moved on, starting this summer.  We can change the manager, scouts etc. 

Stating the obvious, but it's the same with every top club who fall away. Make good decisions and they'll get back up there.  Keep making poor ones and they deservedly stay in a rut. 

What gives me faith is this. The people who own and run our club are very wealthy. They did not get there by being stupid and lazy. They've made mistakes, big mistakes,  but we can be damn sure they'll learn from them and be working extremely hard to make things right.

Dear lord

You do know the racket they've come from....and you are saying that with a straight face???

If their arrogance wasn't so massive it wouldn't be overshadowing their crass incompetence. 

 

[Dwmh]

On 25/12/2023 at 13:54, boratsbrother said:

Despite the long contracts and money spent, there will always be a way to move players on and I'm sure some will be moved on, starting this summer.  We can change the manager, scouts etc. 

 

Seeing this re-quoted above I can let it go.

Chelsea fans and previous ownership know all about Barkley, Bats, Bakayoko, Piazon, Drinkwater and countless others who couldn' get moved on out of 5 year contracts.  Even the current owners know about Lukaku and Sarr.

Yes we can change the manager (though a twist on Groucho Marx's comment about clubs comes to mind - any manager stupid enough to join the current set up is not a manage we would want).

Changing the scouts would be a nightmare Again.  The current lot have a way of deciding who is a good footballer.  Call it an algorithm, certain talents are preferred, others are lowly rated.  It is largely similar to the Brighton algorithm with a heavy weighting on work rate and pace over technique and shot stopping over technique for keepers.  20 yos over 26 yos
That is why we have grabbed Cucurella, Caicedo and Sanchez, but also Mudryk and Jackson.

It is also why players like Havertz, Jorginho, Pulisic, Azpi, Kepa were all moved on quite willingly - the current scouts don't rate the players.
Of course the previous scouts rated them highly.  The trouble is all scouts have their preferences and all end up a bit hit and miss in their choices.  The new way may or may not be better than the old way to select entirely new arrivals.  But it is a dreadful way to review the existing players, because by definitition the surviving players are already the hit choices of the previous scouts and took part in a 74 point 21/22 season.  

In other words change the scouts and the y'd question all the purchases of the last 2 years, and unless they use exactly the same Brighton algorithm they'd swiftly conclude they are all rubbish and should be removed.  That would kill the team again and probably force the accountants to make massive write downs on the squad value, killing off any prospect of the owners getting a nice profit out of the club and probably inducing the sale of the club.
 

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Seeing this re-quoted above I can let it go.

Chelsea fans and previous ownership know all about Barkley, Bats, Bakayoko, Piazon, Drinkwater and countless others who couldn' get moved on out of 5 year contracts.  Even the current owners know about Lukaku and Sarr.

 

 

No surprise we couldn't move on that lot of deadbeats.

Also,  Roman wasn't at Chelsea to make a pile of money out of the club. This lot are, so if they can see the club won't progress with the current players, I am sure they'll be ruthless , cut their losses and be prepared to take the shoeterm big financial hit to move them on. Unlike those names you listed there would be buyers for the likes of Caisedo, Ezno, Mudryk, Jackson, Cucu and others if we want to move them on. 

 

 

[Dwmh]

57 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

No surprise we couldn't move on that lot of deadbeats.

Most of them came in Conte's year of running the club -along with Rudiger who quit on a free to RM.
Once we got rid of Conte we had 4 years where almost every major purchase played a significant number of starts which effectively means paying back our investment.  For some reason an good player who starts but is not loved by fans is always considered a worse investment than a player that never gets off the bench or spends 4 out of 5 years on loan.

58 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Also,  Roman wasn't at Chelsea to make a pile of money out of the club.

Not sure.  Certainly he got a lot more fun out of it.  Certainly it was a vehicle for entertainent, not just his own, but for a large chunk of Moscow business men and officials he wanted to keep happy (of course that is why he had more than one yacht - to entertain).

And he did make money out of it and made a few brillian coups such as the 2012 year when he spent a lot of cash and the CL kudos on acquiring a phenomenal amount of world young talent by outbidding everyone but doing it just a year or so before prices went through the roof.  His timing was brilliant (and he has been much copied though usually too late).

 

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Unlike those names you listed there would be buyers for the likes of Caisedo, Ezno, Mudryk, Jackson, Cucu and others if we want to move them on. 

Yes.  But that means they get to sign new contracts on their terms.  The reported superstars on just £100k a week or less (that is what we get told, I don't really believe it) will want £200k this time.  Even Ezno's market price falls a lot further if you add in an extra £25m of wages.
Basically a player is partially owned by himself and partially owned by the club.  Long contracts increase the club share of that.  But pushing 5 year contracts to 7 or 8 year contracts really ups the risk that the player won't cooperate with a slave contract.