paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 37 minutes ago, xceleryx said: The third goal was exactly what I spoke about the other day and the issue with having an attacking fullback on the same side as Thiago Silva. Chilwell presses up to win the ball, loses out and then it goes down the wing where he's left all the space. Thiago Silva gets burned on the outside, as expected, and the rest is what it is. If we insist in continuing with Silva, we need to do one of the following: - play a back 3 with him in the middle - the full back next to him can't attack - play a proper holding midfielder to cover the space My preference would be to ease him out of the side. I don't want us to play a back 3 at home to bottom half teams, and I want our full backs to be an attacking threat, and until Lavia is fit, option 3 doesn't exist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, thevelourfog said: I think this is too cynical in its own way. This is the football model adopted as the owners genuinely think it will lead to winning football. It isn't to make money for them, because any profits would be tiny and sat in a high risk selling portfolio. The only way they make any money from this club was by making it bigger and more successful, in a more lucrative league, and then selling it. Two years into this alleged ten year plan and they have well and truly screwed that already. The sports business in general has incredibly stable growth, way outperforming the stock market. PL in particular is incredibly lucrative. They are looking at all ways of cashing in - winning is not their sole raison d'etre. Maybe that is to be expected but in a hyper competitive league we get killed. Do they want us to win? Yes. But other owners want it more. Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if they put it up for sale after building the stadium (or not) and having a load of young assets with growth potential. They could easily make a lot of money without us being particularly successful on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneB Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 15 hours ago, Miguelito07 said: NO Coaching / training Fixed that for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, Ham said: Makes logical sense and will get the best out of the defenders and full backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Makes logical sense and will get the best out of the defenders and full backs The problem being very little depth outside of the starting eleven, as we don't really have wingback alternatives unless we go down the path of wings as wingbacks again. 🤮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, xceleryx said: The problem being very little depth outside of the starting eleven, as we don't really have wingback alternatives unless we go down the path of wings as wingbacks again. 🤮 This is true. Chillwell and Gusto are the only wing back options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, paulw66 said: This is true. Chillwell and Gusto are the only wing back options available. Gilchrist looks as if he has it in him to play wing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, Ham said: Gilchrist looks as if he has it in him to play wing back. Sterling played WB under the nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguelito07 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 25 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Makes logical sense and will get the best out of the defenders and full backs It does BUT Poch hasn't been able to coach this team since he joined. How will he coach them in a 3 at the back team before the game against Villa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 24 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Makes logical sense and will get the best out of the defenders and full backs I thought the nobody coach tried it last season with theses player and it made no difference. Dare I say its the playing staff and not he formation being the problem Do agree silva needs to be put out to pasture and see if any of these expensive SB brought from Monaco are the real deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, xceleryx said: Yes and no. There's certainly tactical things that could be changed that would make things easier, but there's also plenty of straight up individual errors that no amount of tactical adjustment or coaching would've prevented. Wolves first goal for example was purely on Caicedo being unaware and lazy in his touch and body positioning. The third goal was exactly what I spoke about the other day and the issue with having an attacking fullback on the same side as Thiago Silva. Chilwell presses up to win the ball, loses out and then it goes down the wing where he's left all the space. Thiago Silva gets burned on the outside, as expected, and the rest is what it is. Things like Badiashile and Thiago Silva vs Newcastle for example happen way too often. I don't think I've seen a side make as many unforced mistakes than I have this one. And while I kinda expected it to a degree given the nature of the side, they're often coming from players who I'd generally expect a bit more from. Wow the great xceleryx is back tracking on his original statement on how good the squad is - Welcome to the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 14 minutes ago, Ham said: Gilchrist looks as if he has it in him to play wing back. Not quite sure on that myself. It's one thing to ask a CB to play a fairly defensive fullback role, it's another to ask them to play as a wingback. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert19 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 42 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Not quite sure on that myself. It's one thing to ask a CB to play a fairly defensive fullback role, it's another to ask them to play as a wingback. Shame Trev isn't fit, I feel like he might be able to do a reasonably good job at RWB if we needed someone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Points being made about us not having the players to play 5-3-2: we clearly don't have the players to play 4-5-1, or at least we don't under Poch. Someone mentioned "preferring to phase out" Thiago - honestly do you think Disasi and Badiashille will make a more solid partnership? Colwill and Fofana? We need a top class international level defender if we're going to phase out Thiago and I like the idea instead of switching to a 5 to get the most out of him. But considering we're kicking him out the door in the summer - who the f' knows. I said in the summer - and I won't name the names who thoroughly disagreed - Poch was left well short with this squad in a number of key areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Max Fowler said: Poch was left well short with this squad in a number of key areas. He was , but he's still making a gigantic pigs ear out of it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siidi Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ham said: He can't see that the problem is deeper than formation. Edited February 5 by Siidi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, xceleryx said: Not quite sure on that myself. It's one thing to ask a CB to play a fairly defensive fullback role, it's another to ask them to play as a wingback. Have you seem his average positions recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 A sliding doors moment; 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backbiter Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Ham said: Good. The lack of solidity at the back (caused by an inept defence and a pathetically porous, disorganised midfield) is at the heart of our problems. No team can play with any confidence without the stability of a proper defensive shape. Personnel/ injuries issues are one thing. Disorganisation and the failure to address the glaring weaknesses are another. Playing CBs at FB and asking midfielders to do jobs they aren't any good at are recipes for disaster. (Ironically, yesterday was one of the few times we've had two proper fullbacks playing, but we were as bad as in any game this season.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Backbiter said: Good. The lack of solidity at the back (caused by an inept defence and a pathetically porous, disorganised midfield) is at the heart of our problems. No team can play with any confidence without the stability of a proper defensive shape. Personnel/ injuries issues are one thing. Disorganisation and the failure to address the glaring weaknesses are another. Playing CBs at FB and asking midfielders to do jobs they aren't any good at are recipes for disaster. (Ironically, yesterday was one of the few times we've had two proper fullbacks playing, but we were as bad as in any game this season.) There's a bus sized hole in midfield with Enzo and Gallagher absent leaving Caicedo to take on allcomers on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 56 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: I said in the summer - and I won't name the names who thoroughly disagreed - Poch was left well short with this squad in a number of key areas. Understatement of teh decade - the starting squad in September was an utter disgrace and an insult to Poch and all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just now, Dwmh said: Understatement of teh decade - the starting squad in September was an utter disgrace and an insult to Poch and all of us. He only has himself to blame then ( bit of a trend here) I remember when Nkunku got injured , Pochettino saying we had to show Broja a pathway to the first team and how much he believes in him. How's that working out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, Backbiter said: Good. The lack of solidity at the back (caused by an inept defence and a pathetically porous, disorganised midfield) is at the heart of our problems. No team can play with any confidence without the stability of a proper defensive shape. Personnel/ injuries issues are one thing. Disorganisation and the failure to address the glaring weaknesses are another. Playing CBs at FB and asking midfielders to do jobs they aren't any good at are recipes for disaster. (Ironically, yesterday was one of the few times we've had two proper fullbacks playing, but we were as bad as in any game this season.) I've often felt 3 Cbs covers defensive weakness whether of the CBs or midfield, it might help. We recently lost to a strong Liverpool side not quite the same side that Arsenal faced and Wolves scored 3 at Utd. The media seem to be pushing this as they like a story I would prefer to see us at Villa and after Palace before making a decision yet we will just need to wait and see how they chips fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: He only has himself to blame then ( bit of a trend here) I remember when Nkunku got injured , Pochettino saying we had to show Broja a pathway to the first team and how much he believes in him. How's that working out? Be fair - that is what managers are supposed to say. It is a world where every one lies, taking people on their word in this kind of white lie / compliment is probably worse than the white lie. The key is to understand why someone says something, not what they say. Talking up Broja was a good action. But yes, the sales were made mostly June and first half of July, and other experienced players to go went on loan - which can reasonably assumed to be part of the plan. Poch should have known all this, should have double checked all this before he signed up on may 29. Either they completely failed on their promises to him or he was completely in ept in the squad demands he gave, Edited February 5 by Dwmh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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