Chelsea 4 Leicester City 2

[Bert19]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

But last season, such was the dire lack of creativity and goal threat, we were crapping the bed whenever any team of any quality scored a single goal against us.  

I think sorting out our defence will be an easier problem to fix than  the lack of goals and creativity which has been a problem for years. 

 

I also think our attacking play has improved drastically - it's not often now that I think we won't score.  Yes we can add a couple of improvements in that regard, but Palmer's been a revelation and Jackson, Mudryk & Madueke can all get better and to do their numbers.  Jackson in particular looks on an upward trajectory and we've also added a few goals from midfield.  

I would like it if our set-pieces improved and that meant that it was more likely Colwill, Disasi etc were more likely to add to our tally from defence. We've done well off our defenders over the years, would be good if we could get that back.

[boratsbrother]

15 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

I think being able to give a back 4 + GK a run of games together, plus possibly a more physical presence in front of them in midfield to help out Caicedo would help. Ugochukwa and Lavia haven't had much of a chance yet, having them fit could make a difference or a more experienced player may be necessary.

Yes, the problems can only be sorted with  defence which plays together for a good number of games. That has been impossible with the injuries!

I have doubts about Ugo ever being good enough for the level we're aiming to get back to, but I do think Lavia has huge potential and could be a star player for us for years to come. He will provide much needed protection for the defence but he's also quality on the ball too. 

 

[boratsbrother]

4 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

I also think our attacking play has improved drastically - it's not often now that I think we won't score.  Yes we can add a couple of improvements in that regard, but Palmer's been a revelation and Jackson, Mudryk & Madueke can all get better and to do their numbers.  Jackson in particular looks on an upward trajectory and we've also added a few goals from midfield.  

I would like it if our set-pieces improved and that meant that it was more likely Colwill, Disasi etc were more likely to add to our tally from defence. We've done well off our defenders over the years, would be good if we could get that back.

That's what's so encouraging. The fact that we've seen such improvement going forward but still see so much more potential and room for improvement too. We could become scary to deal with if the players conintue to improve as they should over the next few years.

[east lower]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

But last season, such was the dire lack of creativity and goal threat, we were crapping the bed whenever any team of any quality scored a single goal against us.  

I think sorting out our defence will be an easier problem to fix than  the lack of goals and creativity which has been a problem for years. 

 

And what's the difference between last season and this? - Rhetorical question that, because the answer is clear, namely the coach. I'm afraid he cannot organise a defence properly. As @Mark Kelly rightly states 'All roads lead back to the coach'. We score more probably because of him, we let more in probably because of him. We've new players in for defending and new players in for attacking, we've new midfielders, we've had midfield departures.

But we won't be able to keep scoring 2, 3 or more to be able to win games.  Watch any manager/coach that's new in to a job, get the bit at the back right first - He's not done this and faff's and fanny's around with different defensive systems and people, he's not settled on a system and it shows. This game was like a basketball match and we really struggle to defend - There's no balance between attack and defence, he doesn't seem able to strike a happy medium. Remember that up to a point in the season we were struggling to score also.

[NoblyBobly]

On 18/03/2024 at 21:43, paulw66 said:

I personally don't think there was anything wrong his positioning. I don't suppose Sanchez, who I'm not a fan of, thought Disasi would clobber the ball goalwards. I imagine he was expecting a nice gentle passback ....and if had, we wouldn't be having this conversation 

Like all disasters it is a combination of factors. Disasi made the fatal assumption that Sanchez would be between his sticks or even just in his area ( but didn’t look). The reason he made that assumption was because that’s where he would and should have been!! Instead Sanchez was looking at daisies somewhere in midfield. 
Do you think that would have been a goal with Petrovic ? I’d put my house on it that it wouldn’t have been. 

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

And what's the difference between last season and this? - Rhetorical question that, because the answer is clear, namely the coach. I'm afraid he cannot organise a defence properly. As @Mark Kelly rightly states 'All roads lead back to the coach'. We score more probably because of him, we let more in probably because of him. We've new players in for defending and new players in for attacking, we've new midfielders, we've had midfield departures.

But we won't be able to keep scoring 2, 3 or more to be able to win games.  Watch any manager/coach that's new in to a job, get the bit at the back right first - He's not done this and faff's and fanny's around with different defensive systems and people, he's not settled on a system and it shows. This game was like a basketball match and we really struggle to defend - There's no balance between attack and defence, he doesn't seem able to strike a happy medium. Remember that up to a point in the season we were struggling to score also.

At least you are prepared to admit that Poch has improved us going forward. 

All I'm asking for is for him to be given another season and see if he can also improve the defence next season. If he can then we'll be right back up there challenging for a CL place. If he can't then we'll probably be midtable again and he will be moved on.  If he can get us challenging for top four again, going from a complete shambles to challenging top four in two seasons would have been as much as anyone could have reasonably wanted from him.

Not too much to ask and another year isn't that long a period of time with a young set of players. 

 

[chiswickblue]

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

At least you are prepared to admit that Poch has improved us going forward. 

All I'm asking for is for him to be given another season and see if he can also improve the defence next season. If he can then we'll be right back up there challenging for a CL place. If he can't then we'll probably be midtable again and he will be moved on.  If he can get us challenging for top four again, going from a complete shambles to challenging top four in two seasons would have been as much as anyone could have reasonably wanted from him.

Not too much to ask and another year isn't that long a period of time with a young set of players. 

 

If he gets a second season I imagine it will be for lack of viable alternatives rather than a validation of his methods so far. Going into a second season with a contract expiring at the end of it would be uncharted waters for a Chelsea coach.

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, Bert19 said:

I also think our attacking play has improved drastically - it's not often now that I think we won't score.  Yes we can add a couple of improvements in that regard, but Palmer's been a revelation and Jackson, Mudryk & Madueke can all get better and to do their numbers.  Jackson in particular looks on an upward trajectory and we've also added a few goals from midfield.  

I would like it if our set-pieces improved and that meant that it was more likely Colwill, Disasi etc were more likely to add to our tally from defence. We've done well off our defenders over the years, would be good if we could get that back.

We are supposedly bringing in the set pieces coach from Brentford. Not sure if this is happening in the near future, or if it will be delayed until the summer.

It will be interesting to see if he can bring any improvements here, both defensively and attacking.

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

And what's the difference between last season and this? - Rhetorical question that, because the answer is clear, namely the coach. I'm afraid he cannot organise a defence properly. As @Mark Kelly rightly states 'All roads lead back to the coach'. We score more probably because of him, we let more in probably because of him. We've new players in for defending and new players in for attacking, we've new midfielders, we've had midfield departures.

But we won't be able to keep scoring 2, 3 or more to be able to win games.  Watch any manager/coach that's new in to a job, get the bit at the back right first - He's not done this and faff's and fanny's around with different defensive systems and people, he's not settled on a system and it shows. This game was like a basketball match and we really struggle to defend - There's no balance between attack and defence, he doesn't seem able to strike a happy medium. Remember that up to a point in the season we were struggling to score also.

These things do take time though. Plenty of examples of managers out there who take time to understand and evaluate the players they have, and take time to find the right balance between defending and attacking. Klopp first couple of years at Liverpool a good example, they become defensively better with the addition of a £70m centre back. Before VVD they would score and concede plenty.

Part of the issue with Poch's first season here is it runs in parallel with Postacoglu first season at spurs , and to some degree Emery first full season at Villa. These two coaches have made a dramatic and immediate improvements to their clubs, so whilst I get they are a barometer that many want to compare Chelsea with, it's not a case of that is the norm for any manager, and it does not take into account how bad a manager Gerrard was, and how low the vibe at Spurs was under Conte.

Those managers deserve credit for turning their clubs so quickly. However, just because it can happen, and has happened there. Sometimes the circumstances at play means it takes longer at other clubs.

 

[boratsbrother]

28 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

If he gets a second season I imagine it will be for lack of viable alternatives rather than a validation of his methods so far. Going into a second season with a contract expiring at the end of it would be uncharted waters for a Chelsea coach.

There aren't any standout alternatives we could realistly get, so you're probably right about that. 

Jose would be a terrible step backwards and would imho be a disater. De Zerbi's stock has fallen this season. Carlo works best with proven top class players. Conte would be another very short term appointment.

I don't have any worries about us going into a season with Poch at the the of his contract that season. If he does well next year then we offer him a new contract and if we stagnate then he goes. 

[Bert19]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

We are supposedly bringing in the set pieces coach from Brentford. Not sure if this is happening in the near future, or if it will be delayed until the summer.

It will be interesting to see if he can bring any improvements here, both defensively and attacking.

Yeh, credit to the management that they are trying to directly address a problem we have in both penalty areas. 

[east lower]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

At least you are prepared to admit that Poch has improved us going forward. 

All I'm asking for is for him to be given another season and see if he can also improve the defence next season. If he can then we'll be right back up there challenging for a CL place. If he can't then we'll probably be midtable again and he will be moved on.  If he can get us challenging for top four again, going from a complete shambles to challenging top four in two seasons would have been as much as anyone could have reasonably wanted from him.

Not too much to ask and another year isn't that long a period of time with a young set of players. 

 

It would be churlish of me to say that it’s the players maturing that’s improving the goals scored and not the coach, whilst blaming him for the defensive mess that we invariably find ourselves in. But………..in the cases of Palmer and maybe Jackson that may be part of the reason.

The coaches previous sides have struggled defensively and I’m afraid that overall he doesn’t have the ability to improve the overall - and it’s that balance that I feel he just isn’t capable of.

He’s probably not changing much at his age in terms of strategies, so improvement might well be very limited in a second year. If they ain’t picked it up tactics wise now, they won’t get a great deal better then.

Better coach required, but that’s just my view.

[My Blood Is Blue]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

These things do take time though. Plenty of examples of managers out there who take time to understand and evaluate the players they have, and take time to find the right balance between defending and attacking. Klopp first couple of years at Liverpool a good example, they become defensively better with the addition of a £70m centre back. Before VVD they would score and concede plenty.

Part of the issue with Poch's first season here is it runs in parallel with Postacoglu first season at spurs , and to some degree Emery first full season at Villa. These two coaches have made a dramatic and immediate improvements to their clubs, so whilst I get they are a barometer that many want to compare Chelsea with, it's not a case of that is the norm for any manager, and it does not take into account how bad a manager Gerrard was, and how low the vibe at Spurs was under Conte.

Those managers deserve credit for turning their clubs so quickly. However, just because it can happen, and has happened there. Sometimes the circumstances at play means it takes longer at other clubs.

 

• Tottenham added 5 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 7 first team squad players (admittedly 1 was Harry Kane, but the other 3 weren't really first team players).
• Villa added 5 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 3 first team squad players.
• Chelsea added 10 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 10 first team squad players

So quite a difference in the first full seasons and I'd also say including Emery is a bit unfair as he had part of last season to get to understand the squad and surroundings.

I say all this as someone who wants Poch out, but also as someone who does think he's picked up a tough job given all the changes in recent seasons and injuries this season. I also think we've made more progress under Poch than we did under Potter, but arguably Potter had an even bigger mess to deal with.

[Mark Kelly]

25 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

• Tottenham added 5 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 7 first team squad players (admittedly 1 was Harry Kane, but the other 3 weren't really first team players).
• Villa added 5 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 3 first team squad players.
• Chelsea added 10 players to the first team squad in the summer and let go of 10 first team squad players

So quite a difference in the first full seasons and I'd also say including Emery is a bit unfair as he had part of last season to get to understand the squad and surroundings.

I say all this as someone who wants Poch out, but also as someone who does think he's picked up a tough job given all the changes in recent seasons and injuries this season. I also think we've made more progress under Poch than we did under Potter, but arguably Potter had an even bigger mess to deal with.

As we know I'm not a fan of Pochettino and I honestly think that we are scoring more goals and creating more chances in spite of Pochettino and not because of Pochettino .

The players are now used to playing together and are in the infancy of creating an understanding.

Pochettino hasn't managed to sort out the defence at all , we appear to be getting worse not better 

Every game we play he has them in at half time and confuses the bejeezus out of them and the second half we generally regress 

We essentially brought in an entire new team and then made them run around a bit , lucked into a formation when Silva was eventually benched and our calamity keeper was injured and did better than we had been.

He's been here ages and we cannot defend or attack a corner because "we're so short" , no instruction appears forthcoming from the coach for the taller players in the side to match up with the taller players of the opposition which is surely Coaching 1:1 in the manual.

It was a tough job but he's actively made it harder by having absolutely no clue what he's doing , talks about bravery and demonstrates rank cowardice whenever the option arrives . 

Spurs and Villa aren't better sides than us , they just have better coaches , coaches with an identity they believe in , Pochettino at Spurs had an identity he believed in but apparently doesn't believe in it any more as he's brought no aspect to Chelsea other than being "Spursy" when the chips are down. 

Part of me is inquisitive to see what he can do next season but the bigger part would like to see a proper coach turn up 

Edited March 20 by Mark Kelly

[My Blood Is Blue]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

As we know I'm not a fan of Pochettino and I honestly think that we are scoring more goals and creating more chances in spite of Pochettino and not because of Pochettino .

The players are now used to playing together and are in the infancy of creating an understanding.

Pochettino hasn't managed to sort out the defence at all , we appear to be getting worse not better 

Every game we play he has them in at half time and confuses the bejeezus out of them and the second half we generally regress 

We essentially brought in an entire new team and then made them run around a bit , lucked into a formation when Silva was eventually benched and our calamity keeper was injured and did better than we had been.

He's been here ages and we cannot defend or attack a corner because "we're so short" , no instruction appears forthcoming from the coach for the taller players in the side to match up with the taller players of the opposition which is surely Coaching 1:1 in the manual.

It was a tough job but he's actively made it harder by having absolutely no clue what he's doing , talks about bravery and demonstrates rank cowardice whenever the option arrives . 

Spurs and Villa aren't better sides than us , they just have better coaches , coaches with an identity they believe in , Pochettino at Spurs had an identity he believed in but apparently doesn't believe in it any more as he's brought no aspect to Chelsea other than being "Spursy" when the chips are down. 

Part of me is inquisitive to see what he can do next season but the bigger part would like to see a proper coach turn up 

Fully agree.

The point I was making was more around comparing this season for us and for our manager to arguably, any other club, just isn't worth doing. I am expecting a quieter summer by comparison to the last 2 and so next season is the season that whoever is manager here, won't have any excuses.

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

This is nothing personal against Sterling. It's simply about him not producing anywhere near enough for the money he's being paid.

 

Mathematics

Go look at some of these players given 6-8 year contracts, when you add on their transfer fee they are in excess of the Sterling package and to date they have not propelled  the club to the heights one would expect paying those fees and salaries 

 

[ROTG]

21 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I am expecting a quieter summer by comparison to the last 2

Probably because the scouts have used up the list of players and targets from their previous clubs 

I’ll get my coat. 

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

These things do take time though. Plenty of examples of managers out there who take time to understand and evaluate the players they have, and take time to find the right balance between defending and attacking. Klopp first couple of years at Liverpool a good example, they become defensively better with the addition of a £70m centre back. Before VVD they would score and concede plenty.

Part of the issue with Poch's first season here is it runs in parallel with Postacoglu first season at spurs , and to some degree Emery first full season at Villa. These two coaches have made a dramatic and immediate improvements to their clubs, so whilst I get they are a barometer that many want to compare Chelsea with, it's not a case of that is the norm for any manager, and it does not take into account how bad a manager Gerrard was, and how low the vibe at Spurs was under Conte.

Those managers deserve credit for turning their clubs so quickly. However, just because it can happen, and has happened there. Sometimes the circumstances at play means it takes longer at other clubs.

 

Those coaches were also allowed to bring in players they wanted. Unlike Poch who’s been given a squad made up by persons will no know of football coaching and what is required to be successful.

[Sleeping Dave]

22 hours ago, east lower said:

Don’t know if the club are, but we can’t keep clean sheets and seeing a need to score at least 3 goals a game to win them. And 3 goals a game against Championship sides, albeit the top two teams in that league.

Well. To be fair, both Badiashile and Fofana has missed the majority of this season. Fofana is a lost cause, but I do think a Disasi-Badiashile partnership is our long term bet. 

I’ve made this point before, imagine this;

                            Petrovic (194)

RB - Disasi (190) - Badiashile (194) - Colwill (187)

                            Ugochukwu (190)

Thats a very tall and strong central line. Add proper ballers around that height and all of a sudden I think we’ll be a lot more stable. 

 

[asvaberg]

12 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Well. To be fair, both Badiashile and Fofana has missed the majority of this season. Fofana is a lost cause, but I do think a Disasi-Badiashile partnership is our long term bet. 

I’ve made this point before, imagine this;

                            Petrovic (194)

RB - Disasi (190) - Badiashile (194) - Colwill (187)

                            Ugochukwu (190)

Thats a very tall and strong central line. Add proper ballers around that height and all of a sudden I think we’ll be a lot more stable. 

 

Well, we shouldn't in theory concede any goals from corner with those "High towers" 😁

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Well. To be fair, both Badiashile and Fofana has missed the majority of this season. Fofana is a lost cause, but I do think a Disasi-Badiashile partnership is our long term bet. 

I’ve made this point before, imagine this;

                            Petrovic (194)

RB - Disasi (190) - Badiashile (194) - Colwill (187)

                            Ugochukwu (190)

Thats a very tall and strong central line. Add proper ballers around that height and all of a sudden I think we’ll be a lot more stable. 

 

Firstly they'd need to get organised, secondly some confidence installed into Badiashile - add experience and coaching and they may get better.

Agreed that Fofana is out of consideration - Word from a chap who's offered me some reliable info in the past is that his knee/s are in a real bad and degenerative way. If that's true then a very expensive mistake, buy injured - buy twice.

Having said the above that central defensive line-up has hardly got the Terry/Carvalho or Terry/Cahil or Terry/Gallas  or Luis/Cahill or  Rudiger/Silva feel about it. Those partnerships win you titles or CL's.

Fromwhat I've seen of Lesley, tidy but not a first choice central midfielder in a top 4 team.

[paulw66]

10 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Like all disasters it is a combination of factors. Disasi made the fatal assumption that Sanchez would be between his sticks or even just in his area ( but didn’t look). The reason he made that assumption was because that’s where he would and should have been!! Instead Sanchez was looking at daisies somewhere in midfield. 
Do you think that would have been a goal with Petrovic ? I’d put my house on it that it wouldn’t have been. 

I bet, if you watched the entirety of every game that Petrovic has played, you can find multiple instances of a backpass being played to him in a similar position. The only difference being that the ball wasn't shanked in the net from 40 yards

Edit - the other point being ignored is that we had a throw on ,halfway into their half. At that point a gk being on the edge of his area is completely normal. Gusto makes the first mistake, throwing it 30 yards backwards and sending Disasi towards his own goal.

Disasi then miskicks it goalwards. I don't think he intended the ball to go where it did, BTW. It was a shank.

Edited March 20 by paulw66

[east lower]

59 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I bet, if you watched the entirety of every game that Petrovic has played, you can find multiple instances of a backpass being played to him in a similar position. The only difference being that the ball wasn't shanked in the net from 40 yards

Edit - the other point being ignored is that we had a throw on ,halfway into their half. At that point a gk being on the edge of his area is completely normal. Gusto makes the first mistake, throwing it 30 yards backwards and sending Disasi towards his own goal.

Disasi then miskicks it goalwards. I don't think he intended the ball to go where it did, BTW. It was a shank.

That's the way I saw the whole sorry tale - below

On 18/03/2024 at 22:22, east lower said:

Just watched the OG back and if I were awarding percentage responsibility for that fiasco - Gusto gets 10%, Disasi gets 50% and Sanchez 40%.

Gusto puts Disasi into a pressure situation, Disasi panics and over hits the pass but WTAF is Sanchez doing out there.

 

 

[boratsbrother]

54 minutes ago, east lower said:

 

Agreed that Fofana is out of consideration - Word from a chap who's offered me some reliable info in the past is that his knee/s are in a real bad and degenerative way. 

 

Even if he is fit for next season it'll be three years with hardly any football behind him. I can't think of anyother young player who's been so crippled for so long  by injury who came back and made it for a top club.  

I remember someone on here commenting about the way Fofana moves and runs and that something about his movements didn't look quite right/normal.  Can't say I looked hard enough at his movement to notice, but there might be something in that which explains his injuries? 

Fingers crossed that he can come back and defy the odds against him. Sadly, I just can't see him being able to cops with the very physical demands of the EPL. 

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, east lower said:

That's the way I saw the whole sorry tale - below

 

I agree 100% with Paul on this. 

Absolutely nailed it.