Sheffield United 2 Chelsea 2

[Max Fowler]

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

If they sold now, they would lose money. A lot. 

The only way they can turn a profit, is to get us back near the top and winning trophies, then sell from a position of strength. It makes no financial sense for them for us to float along in mid table. 

There is a middle ground. Of course they won't sell now but we should put pressure on them.

Again look at Tottenham now. Great financial position - winning nothing.

[Max Fowler]

21 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

They are not going to keep striking gold and keep finding mugs like our owners who pay outrageous fees for cloggers like Caicedo. Southampton had a similar good run of finding decent players and making a profit but look where that got them once that good run came to an end.  What Brighton are getting by on is unsustainablle. They have already peaked and I have no doubt what they have relied on will eventually catch up with and see them fall right away. Not that I want to see that happen to them btw.

Don't forget Liverpool bid 110 million for Caicedo too.

I'm not sure whether to agree or disagree with you here. I certainly think the owners are trying to emulate Brighton's model but I too think it's unworkable in the long-term, particularly for a big club

I think it's far too early to say Brighton have peaked - they had an incredible run last year and are still doing okay

Again, it's Brighton - we need to remember where they came from

[paulw66]

On 07/04/2024 at 20:29, NoblyBobly said:

It makes perfect sense to me because it started us on the road  it to where we are now. That mass purchase of players was very unwise . We now know they were overrated. Where are those players now? Those great players that won the CL and got us a very fortunate 4th?

So, you're arguing against the spending splurge of summer 2020, not the sacking of Lampard in January 2021.

That's a different argument to the one I made. 

They were "fortunate" to get 4th because we were languishing in 9th when SFL got the sack.

SFL - 29 points from 19

TT - 38 from 19

TT got a 31% improvement from the same players, plus won the CL. You can believe sacking SFL was wrong if you like. 

On 07/04/2024 at 20:29, NoblyBobly said:

 Lampard wouldn’t have won it? It’s an assumption. You may or may not be right but I think Lampard deserved to finish what he started. 
 

It's an assumption that if asked Margot Robbie out, she'd say no, but you never know.

He "deserved to finish what he started".......why? We were playing terribly and the wheels had come off. Sounds like pure sentiment. 

 

On 07/04/2024 at 20:29, NoblyBobly said:

. He hasn’t exactly pulled up any trees since leaving. 
 

and Lampard has????? 

On 07/04/2024 at 20:29, NoblyBobly said:

If you want to keep basking in the warmth that CL victory Paul then bask away. 

Gets more bizarre. in what way am I doing that? All I said was that the group of players we had then were good enough to win it, and the sacking of SFL was correct.

You keep arguing against points I haven't made, it's weird. 

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

That might be the case but they have also generated a lot of profit in the last couple of years as their model has come to fruition. As in, Tony Bloom may have invested money up front but now the model is starting to generate returns.

I think you miss the point somewhat about player sales. It's not just about making profit from players, it's also about running the squad at low cost, avoiding expensive experienced and older players by protecting assets over the long-term.

Sounds good on paper but it goes completely against what has been proven to win titles.

You win nothing with kids - Alan Hansen

I win nothing anyway - Mo Pochettino 

[east lower]

39 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

If they sold now, they would lose money. A lot. 

The only way they can turn a profit, is to get us back near the top and winning trophies, then sell from a position of strength. It makes no financial sense for them for us to float along in mid table. 

I agree and that’s why I think that their plan is 5 years, or so now and then sell on. Given where we are and where their actions have taken us.

A sale is the only way I see that they can get a ROI in a short a period as possible. Unless they are in it for 10+ years and investors that I’ve had experience of (only working inside businesses that have been acquired) are looking to do stuff that returns a yield within 5 years ish.

[east lower]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

You win nothing with kids - Alan Hansen

I win nothing anyway - Mo Pochettino 

But you do when they are talented with a very good manager. 

Perhaps you’ve hit on something there, methinks?

[Max Fowler]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

But you do when they are talented with a very good manager. 

Perhaps you’ve hit on something there, methinks?

I actually think we have a very good manager with talented kids.

We just don't have an elite manager and even then you wouldn't win anything with kids

[chara]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I actually think we have a very good manager with talented kids.

We just don't have an elite manager and even then you wouldn't win anything with kids

With due respect Max...very good?..in what context?...average with some talented kids who need guidance and coaching on and off the pitch,

Don't tell me how good I am or could be...show me how to improve myself,,anyone think the younger players are being guided or individually coached ?

[east lower]

27 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I actually think we have a very good manager with talented kids.

We just don't have an elite manager and even then you wouldn't win anything with kids

Depends on each of our definitions of very good manager. I think he's very, very ordinary. But he has a very lucky charm bracelet.

[Max Fowler]

19 minutes ago, chara said:

With due respect Max...very good?..in what context?...average with some talented kids who need guidance and coaching on and off the pitch,

Don't tell me how good I am or could be...show me how to improve myself,,anyone think the younger players are being guided or individually coached ?

Personally I think the squad is a mess. I don't think he's elite but I honestly don't think many other mangers would be doing a whole lot better

[DannyLB]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Personally I think the squad is a mess. I don't think he's elite but I honestly don't think many other mangers would be doing a whole lot better

It makes no sense to sack Gerrard. Look at the squad he has at his disposal. We’ve already gone through this with Dean Smith. 

[asvaberg]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I actually think we have a very good manager with talented kids.

League One-wise, definitely.

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I actually think we have a very good manager with talented kids.

Fook me when have 21, 22, 23, 24 year olds been kids. 

Most people by that age have been working 4+ or just graduated by that age. 

We are not fielding a team full of teenagers every week.

This another one of the myths people are hiding behind, when the truth is some of those players are not as good as some might believe. 

[kev61]

42 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Fook me when have 21, 22, 23, 24 year olds been kids. 

Most people by that age have been working 4+ or just graduated by that age. 

We are not fielding a team full of teenagers every week.

This another one of the myths people are hiding behind, when the truth is some of those players are not as good as some might believe. 

I agree - it's nonsense.A player at the age of 21 should be a fully fledged player -if he isn't then either he is not good enough or he plays for Chelsea.

[kev61]

19 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Just do the sums and you'll know that can't be the reason.

They've invested £3 + BILLION into the club. Buying and selling unknown players and hopefully making a few million or a few tens of million here and there for the next 10 years won't make a dent on that £3 + billion, let alone make them money.

Let's assume that you and me have no idea what is in the mind of Clearlake.

As an investment company we can agree that they are in it to make money.

If the glazers sell their shares in Man U they will make a profit.If clearlake sell they won't lose money:that is what investors do 

For Clearlake they are probably investing in London one of the most iconic cities in the world.

They have probably looked at the psg model that hasn't worked 

[boratsbrother]

6 hours ago, ROTG said:

Fook me when have 21, 22, 23, 24 year olds been kids. 

Most people by that age have been working 4+ or just graduated by that age. 

We are not fielding a team full of teenagers every week.

This another one of the myths people are hiding behind, when the truth is some of those players are not as good as some might believe. 

The problem is our players lack of Premier League experience, not the actual age of the players  Added to that issue is they style of play in the league which is simply on a different level of pace and week in week out intensity to everyother league in Europe. 

Rooney was a mature, experienced Premier League player by the time he was 22. Contrast that to. Mudryk, who came from a low level league with only a few dozen ganes under his belt. He is still an extremely raw player for his age.  

Petrovich, Gusto, Disasi, Badiashile, Mudryk, Jackson, Mudueke, Chuck,  Palmer, Colwill are all still very much on the learning curve.  Along with this, as has been mentioned many times by posters, we have a lack of natural leaders in the team and the chronic inury problems which has lead to us having to flog our three midfielders to death.  

 

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

Let's assume that you and me have no idea what is in the mind of Clearlake.

As an investment company we can agree that they are in it to make money.

If the glazers sell their shares in Man U they will make a profit.If clearlake sell they won't lose money:that is what investors do 

For Clearlake they are probably investing in London one of the most iconic cities in the world.

They have probably looked at the psg model that hasn't worked 

In terms of size, Utd are simply on a different planet to us as a club. Regardless of how mediocre they are and have been for over a decade, they'll always find a buyer who'll stump up billions for the club.

For the time being at least, we are a club in significant decline. A club struggling to attract big name  sponsorships. A club who's stadium is way below the quality it needs. If Clearlake try to sell anytime soon,  might find out they have hugely overpaid for the club. 

[Max Fowler]

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

Fook me when have 21, 22, 23, 24 year olds been kids. 

Most people by that age have been working 4+ or just graduated by that age. 

We are not fielding a team full of teenagers every week.

This another one of the myths people are hiding behind, when the truth is some of those players are not as good as some might believe. 

Okay change the word "kids". We nonetheless have a ridiculously young squad - 2nd youngest in Europe including Thiago to bump up the average.
I agree that many, many aren't up to snuff, which is why I think other managers would not do a whole lot better

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Okay change the word "kids". We nonetheless have a ridiculously young squad - 2nd youngest in Europe including Thiago to bump up the average.
I agree that many, many aren't up to snuff, which is why I think other managers would not do a whole lot better

This whole youngest squad thing is again is really non starter IMO.

We didn't have Silva and in the Burnley game there starting 11 average age was 1 year higher, and that is not the first time the average gap between the two teams was close. 

 BTW who was responsible for the alleged youngest squad Poch?

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

The problem is our players lack of Premier League experience, not the actual age of the players  Added to that issue is they style of play in the league which is simply on a different level of pace and week in week out intensity to everyother league in Europe. 

Rooney was a mature, experienced Premier League player by the time he was 22. Contrast that to. Mudryk, who came from a low level league with only a few dozen ganes under his belt. He is still an extremely raw player for his age.  

Petrovich, Gusto, Disasi, Badiashile, Mudryk, Jackson, Mudueke, Chuck,  Palmer, Colwill are all still very much on the learning curve.  Along with this, as has been mentioned many times by posters, we have a lack of natural leaders in the team and the chronic inury problems which has lead to us having to flog our three midfielders to death.  

 

Bit of a strawman IMO

Who was responsible for the team having no leaders Poch?

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ROTG said:

Bit of a strawman IMO

Who was responsible for the team having no leaders Poch?

Poch could actually be a leader himself you know , and by that I don't mean a cheer leader , I mean someone who gives the players instruction on where to be at the various phases of the game , helps his players understand the role in the side they must fulfill and set up the side to get the best out of the players available to him.

He choses chaos , on purpose , by design , and whenever he does speak to them , confuses the fuck out of them which always , and I mean always leads to us losing the lead in games.

No leaders? Be the leader. 

 

[Max Fowler]

39 minutes ago, ROTG said:

This whole youngest squad thing is again is really non starter IMO.

We didn't have Silva and in the Burnley game there starting 11 average age was 1 year higher, and that is not the first time the average gap between the two teams was close. 

 BTW who was responsible for the alleged youngest squad Poch?

How on earth is it a non-starter? We have the 2nd youngest squad in the top 5 European leagues

We clearly lack experience all over the pitch.

 

 

[boratsbrother]

36 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Bit of a strawman IMO

Who was responsible for the team having no leaders Poch?

No, it's an actual fact that we have a lot of players with not enough Premier League experience. It's an actual fact that this league is played at a higher pace and intensity than any other league in Europe. 

Just look at the last week alone. We are able to beat a team which was challenging for the CL.. That same team gets a draw a few days later against the team at the top of the league while we struggle for a point against one of the worst teams to ever play in this league. That is how incredibly competetive and intense this league is. 

It can take time to get up to speed for a player. Look at Drogba. Looked quite ordinary for much of  his first season, and since then the league has only got even quicker and even more intense.

 

[boratsbrother]

38 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Poch could actually be a leader himself you know , and by that I don't mean a cheer leader , I mean someone who gives the players instruction on where to be at the various phases of the game , helps his players understand the role in the side they must fulfill and set up the side to get the best out of the players available to him.

He choses chaos , on purpose , by design , and whenever he does speak to them , confuses the fuck out of them which always , and I mean always leads to us losing the lead in games.

No leaders? Be the leader. 

 

But no manager can help them once they cross the white line. There has to be leaders out there on the pitch and we don't have a single one of them. We simply don't have any characters with a strong personality and presence on the the pitch. 

It's not something that can be manufactured, it comes from within the players themselves. Gallagher displays his  phenomanal workrate but he doesn't have that leadership personality. Palmer leads by performance, but again lacks the personality of a leader. 

I don't know what we can do about this tbh 

 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

20 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

But no manager can help them once they cross the white line. There has to be leaders out there on the pitch and we don't have a single one of them. We simply don't have any characters with a strong personality and presence on the the pitch. 

It's not something that can be manufactured, it comes from within the players themselves. Gallagher displays his  phenomanal workrate but he doesn't have that leadership personality. Palmer leads by performance, but again lacks the personality of a leader. 

I don't know what we can do about this tbh 

 

 

I agree and I also agree with what Mark said, both are correct.

We massively lack experience and leadership in our squad, I’ve covered it so many times, I won’t go into it again. For me, this is the area that needs fixing before we worry about splashing out on a striker, because until this is fixed, we’ll struggle.

That said, the manager should be well aware of this shortcoming within the squad and so therefore realise, he may need to do a bit more leading that he may normally do and he may need to try and coach in some leadership, by working with certain players, probably those that seem to actually be able to stay fit, to be his voice out there and know what to do in certain situations in games. It won’t solve the problem, but it will go some way to helping it. I also think, when given this squad, you may need to be more vocal and clear in your instructions before and during a match. Look at what happens to us after half time, nearly every time, this isn’t a coincidence. 

You can’t inject experience or leadership into  the players we have, but you can do as much as possible to give them the tools to succeed and put in a structure that allows for leadership to grow. I love Gallagher, I think he’s brilliant, but I don’t see a man that has grown into the captaincy that he’s had most of the season… it obviously doesn’t come naturally to him, but then Poch should be working with him on how to be a leader, making him become a leader within that team by the way he works with him and speaks to and about him around the team… maybe that is happening, but it doesn’t seem to be.

Honestly, it strikes me that even after almost a whole season, Poch hasn’t actually got to know these players properly.