Sheffield United 2 Chelsea 2

[My Blood Is Blue]

1 minute ago, boratsbrother said:

Ive tried to stick up for our players as much as possible,  but yesterday's performance and what you say here is a turning point for me. 

 

I wouldn’t and won’t defend the players, ultimately they’re the ones out on the pitch and days like yesterday are just not acceptable. However, what I would say is that leadership comes from the front/top/however you want to position it and in a footballing sense that is your manager/head coach and he should be able to motivate the players to go out there to put in as much effort as possible, if nothing else. 

The other point is again around the lack of experience in our squad. The players don’t look like players that have downed tools or turned on the manager, but they do like young and inexperienced players that have nobody to look to on the pitch when things aren’t working, that can push and pull the players around, making sure they’re doing the basics and be the coach on the pitch. We were obviously massively spoilt when we used to have multiple international captains on the pitch, but even more recently we had players like Rudiger & Jorginho who were able to fill that role.

Silva is the closest we have to it in this team, but his English isn’t great and he can’t do it all in how own. I also think the manager has pushed him out somewhat and his heart isn’t quite in it as it once was.

[east lower]

14 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Ive tried to stick up for our players as much as possible,  but yesterday's performance and what you say here is a turning point for me. 

 

I have nothing to judge what I saw yesterday on, but my own experience in teams and some conversations I have had with three ex-PL footballers I know. 

The pros tell me that by far the majority of time they follow instructions. That’s what they are trained to do, and do so despite at times not agreeing with it and when it’s not working.

When I played, even at the level I played at and you weren’t playing with mates so harsh words were ‘easier’, the players knew a good coach from a dud. If there were a few old heads in the dressing room then they’d stand-up and say something to try to elicit some sort of change.

No one’s doing the latter, but they look as though they know they are being hamstrung. Are the players truly as bad as they look? 

Havertz being a prime example. Give him to a coach who has a clue and mentality + methodology and he is looking like the player we thought we might have bought.

Edited April 8 by east lower

[Rob B]

My mind was fully made up on Poch during the Man United game.  

Until then, I'd been on the fence because I felt like the squad were behind the manager, we need stability, he'd had injuries etc, but the last two games have sold it for me, he has to go.

He's tactically inept and the players aren't developing, in fact, many of them are regressing.   The run we've had over the last 10 games (against incredibly poor opposition I might add) feels like it's happened on some occasional brilliance / talent alone.   There is no cohesion, no patterns of play, no defensive structure and no plan. 

The starting 11 yesterday was awful - Cucurella and Gallagher on the left,  Disasi and Madueke on the right,  Palmer in the centre,  none of it worked.  But for some unknown reason, he refuses to change until it's too late.  Which has happened time and time again this season,  the game was crying out for a couple of subs around the hour mark yesterday  - move Palmer back to the right, bring on Chukwuemeka in the middle, and introduce Mudryk or Sterling on the left to pin them back.   Everyone can see it, apart from Poch. 

Despite having 8 days before the next game, I suspect we are stuck with him until the end of the season now, but surely enough's enough? 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I don't know how I feel about it all at the moment. We've had moments this season that indicate we have the talent there, but for whatever reason it just isn't being realised and I put it down to two main factors... The coach, I just don't think he's good enough and I think he's massively being found out this season. Who sets us up with Disasi at RB, nullifying any attacking threat from our right-hand side and then Cucurella and Gallagher on the left, meaning we also have no real threat on the left either? Madness! The other factor and I've been banging the drum since pre-season, is the massive lack of experience in the squad and that comes back to the owner's plan and the 'scouting departments' lack of ability in building a team. 

I think this summer will tell us what the owner's true plans are for this club. It's obvious to everyone where the gaps are in our squad and the experience we lack, so if they go out and just sign kids again, then it will all but confirm they are in it purely as an investment to try and turn a profit on as many players as possible. If they go out and sign the players we desperately need with the experience level we need, then I may start to believe they actually want success on the field first and foremost.

I think the owners will make the case that our current crop can become the experienced players and focus on supplementing them with more U23s.

The rumour that we wanted "two of the world's most talented U23 players per every position" had a ring of truth.

[Max Fowler]

11 minutes ago, Rob B said:

My mind was fully made up on Poch during the Man United game.  

Until then, I'd been on the fence because I felt like the squad were behind the manager, we need stability, he'd had injuries etc, but the last two games have sold it for me, he has to go.

He's tactically inept and the players aren't developing, in fact, many of them are regressing.   The run we've had over the last 10 games (against incredibly poor opposition I might add) feels like it's happened on some occasional brilliance / talent alone.   There is no cohesion, no patterns of play, no defensive structure and no plan. 

Truth.

The reason I felt sick after the United game is I would have loved Chelsea to win in exciting fashion at the end. But I cannot let go how dreadful our football was for much of that game.

Poch does deserve some credit that the team can actually score now. It always gives you a chance of sneaking a win, unlike under Potter where if you can't score the best you are leaving with is a draw.

But I can't just celebrate at the end and pretend what I saw in the game. I don't think many of the fans in the stadium forgot either, they just enjoyed the moment of us actually winning and United's demise.

[boratsbrother]

For me, the one flaw that consistently stands out is our sloppy passing. Time and time again, what should.be.a very simple pass is messed up, either hit too far forward, too far left or right or hit backwards instead of square which leads us to  break our flow and lose momemtum.  It's not as if I'm wanting   Hoddle or Fabregas levels of passing here, just expecting the very basics of football at this level  to be better than they currently are.

[Backbiter]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

I have nothing to judge what I saw yesterday on, but my own experience in teams and some conversations I have had with three ex-PL footballers I know. 

The pros tell me that by far the majority of time they follow instructions. That’s what they are trained to do, and do so despite at times not agreeing with it and when it’s not working.

When I played, even at the level I played at and you weren’t playing with mates so harsh words were ‘easier’, the players knew a good coach from a dud. If there were a few old heads in the dressing room then they’d stand-up and say something to try to elicit some sort of change.

Agree. Even at  the low-level I played, we used to make in-game tactical adjustments when things were going wrong. Put an extra man in midfield, get the winger to switch sides, drop deeper in defence if the opposition's pacy attacker was running us ragged, sub off players who were playing crap. There was always a player or two with a good football brain  who we'd all listen to and follow their instructions, both at halftime and during the game.

Some of the best players I played with or coached did not possess a football brain, and needed to be told what to do. Left to their own devices they would make poor decisions, take up ineffective positions ("stand in the wrong places" © DWMH) and generally not play for the team.

[ChelseaJambo]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Ive tried to stick up for our players as much as possible,  but yesterday's performance and what you say here is a turning point for me. 

 

I was very much on the Potter out train and not blaming the players.

I've totally changed my view (and that's not to say Potter and Poch are good enough either), but quite simply we've loads of players who just simply aren't good enough.

People are blinded by the fees and think they must be good. They aren't. There's literally 3 or 4 players who are up to standard for top 4/5, imo.

[ChelseaJambo]

52 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I think the owners will make the case that our current crop can become the experienced players and focus on supplementing them with more U23s.

The rumour that we wanted "two of the world's most talented U23 players per every position" had a ring of truth.

I wonder when they'll start implementing that strategy.

[Bert19]

13 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Yes. But he’s right imo. Much as Poch has been a shocking disappointment the players need to take responsibility too imo. 

They do.  But they're consistently being let off the hook by a Manager than 

2 hours ago, east lower said:

The away fans were particularly cheesed-off at the end of the game yesterday and vocalised it. 

Players trudged off with their chins in their chests barely acknowledging the away support. A few made the ‘effort’ of walking 10-20 yards out of the centre circle towards the fans and Palmer came over.

There’s something rotten about the club now and it’s starting to show.

Complete lack of standards from top to bottom.  Nothing from the Owners, Directors or Manager to the players on how Chelsea players should conduct themselves and what is expected of them.  

Poor all round. 

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I wouldn’t and won’t defend the players, ultimately they’re the ones out on the pitch and days like yesterday are just not acceptable. However, what I would say is that leadership comes from the front/top/however you want to position it and in a footballing sense that is your manager/head coach and he should be able to motivate the players to go out there to put in as much effort as possible, if nothing else. 

The other point is again around the lack of experience in our squad. The players don’t look like players that have downed tools or turned on the manager, but they do like young and inexperienced players that have nobody to look to on the pitch when things aren’t working, that can push and pull the players around, making sure they’re doing the basics and be the coach on the pitch. We were obviously massively spoilt when we used to have multiple international captains on the pitch, but even more recently we had players like Rudiger & Jorginho who were able to fill that role.

Silva is the closest we have to it in this team, but his English isn’t great and he can’t do it all in how own. I also think the manager has pushed him out somewhat and his heart isn’t quite in it as it once was.

Good points, well made.  

[jasonb]

Listening to the pundits yesterday on UTD saying it is chaos football and this is also said of us.

Southgate has also now gone 4-2-3-1.

With the amount of forward pressing leads to the defensive weakness and in our case not helped by missing Colwill, Chillwell and Gusto.

Using Madueke means Palmer has to move more central where he is less effective and Jackson had a shocker probably should have taken him off 20 mins earlier.

A bad day at the office, we move on.

[Box of Tricks]

Sixth place should have been easily achievable this season. The fact that we're still close to it but still floundering is just massively frustrating.

Feels like a collective f*** up from everyone in a position of power at this club.

[asvaberg]

31 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Listening to the pundits yesterday on UTD saying it is chaos football and this is also said of us.

Southgate has also now gone 4-2-3-1.

With the amount of forward pressing leads to the defensive weakness and in our case not helped by missing Colwill, Chillwell and Gusto.

Using Madueke means Palmer has to move more central where he is less effective and Jackson had a shocker probably should have taken him off 20 mins earlier.

A bad day at the office, we move on.

A bad day at work (game) means twice the work next day (game), or?

Two points lost, it's terrible. 

On the bright side: we are unbeaten in the last 6 PL games , 7 including FA. 

We score more league-goals than with Tuchel in the 2020-21 season (Champion league winners).

But we're sloppy at the back.:

Anyone remember WBA at SB the 2020-21 season? We conceded 5 that day in April, but in the remaining 7 PL games we conceded only 6. It tells a lot about a manager and a team that can turn things around and make corrections. Poch doesn't seem to have this ability, nor the players - at least not with a proper management and a typical captain.

We lost a CaptainLeaderLegend and personality in JT.

We lost a CaptainLeaderLegend in "Dave".

We lost a leader (and an experienced player) in Jorginho.

We haven't had a proper captain since. No offence on Silva or Gallagher, great players,  but they are not that kind of a leader/player/person.

 

 

Edited April 8 by asvaberg

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, east lower said:

The away fans were particularly cheesed-off at the end of the game yesterday and vocalised it. 

Players trudged off with their chins in their chests barely acknowledging the away support. A few made the ‘effort’ of walking 10-20 yards out of the centre circle towards the fans and Palmer came over.

There’s something rotten about the club now and it’s starting to show.

Where Analytics Has Gone Since “Moneyball”

Since the revolutionary breakthrough in Oakland, the use of analytics in baseball has become the norm, not the exception. Every team uses analytics to some extent.

One of the most famous cases involves the Boston Red Sox. The team, which had not won a World Series since 1918, won four times in the 21st century after taking an analytics approach under General Manager Theo Epstein and his successors.

Tom Tippett also proved a key member of the team’s success. Tippett worked as senior baseball analyst for the Red Sox from 2003 to 2016. He created realistic simulation programs to use in analytics, including the program used to power Diamond Mind Online simulation baseball.

The game ranks as one of the best simulation games, with many additions and refinements over the years. Players can play the game using baseball players from every era and use current and historical ballparks. Those curious about how it works can register and try a free game.

Epstein famously took the same analytics approach to the Chicago Cubs in 2011, eventually guiding the team to a World Series victory in 2016, the team’s first since 1908.

Analytics have also kept smaller teams thriving. Perhaps the most famous example of this is the Tampa Bay Rays, a team that adheres to an analytics-driven approach to all phases of team management and the game itself. The Rays have been one of the most successful baseball teams in the last 15 years. The Rays have made the playoffs eight times since 2008, winning two American League pennants. They’ve remained competitive even against teams in their own division with payrolls twice the size of what the Rays pay.

Rays Former General Manager Andrew Friedman left in 2014 for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Since then, the Dodgers have won a World Series (over, of all teams, the Rays), three pennants and six division titles. The Houston Astros, winners of the 2022 World Series, also use analytics in their approach to managing the team.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

38 minutes ago, Box of Tricks said:

Sixth place should have been easily achievable this season. The fact that we're still close to it but still floundering is just massively frustrating.

Feels like a collective f*** up from everyone in a position of power at this club.

No not only 6th. 4th or 5th should have been possible. Easily. The only teams head and shoulders above are obviously the Top 3 in the title race. Everyone else fighting for European positions are about the same, it's just a matter of who will show that bit of extra competence and right now it's Spurs and Villa. Teams we destroyed at their own grounds.

[boratsbrother]

22 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Where Analytics Has Gone Since “Moneyball”

Since the revolutionary breakthrough in Oakland, the use of analytics in baseball has become the norm, not the exception. Every team uses analytics to some extent.

One of the most famous cases involves the Boston Red Sox. The team, which had not won a World Series since 1918, won four times in the 21st century after taking an analytics approach under General Manager Theo Epstein and his successors.

Tom Tippett also proved a key member of the team’s success. Tippett worked as senior baseball analyst for the Red Sox from 2003 to 2016. He created realistic simulation programs to use in analytics, including the program used to power Diamond Mind Online simulation baseball.

The game ranks as one of the best simulation games, with many additions and refinements over the years. Players can play the game using baseball players from every era and use current and historical ballparks. Those curious about how it works can register and try a free game.

Epstein famously took the same analytics approach to the Chicago Cubs in 2011, eventually guiding the team to a World Series victory in 2016, the team’s first since 1908.

Analytics have also kept smaller teams thriving. Perhaps the most famous example of this is the Tampa Bay Rays, a team that adheres to an analytics-driven approach to all phases of team management and the game itself. The Rays have been one of the most successful baseball teams in the last 15 years. The Rays have made the playoffs eight times since 2008, winning two American League pennants. They’ve remained competitive even against teams in their own division with payrolls twice the size of what the Rays pay.

Rays Former General Manager Andrew Friedman left in 2014 for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Since then, the Dodgers have won a World Series (over, of all teams, the Rays), three pennants and six division titles. The Houston Astros, winners of the 2022 World Series, also use analytics in their approach to managing the team.

Problem  with that is, comparing Baseball to Football is like comparing Heavy Metal Music to Classical Music.  They have one thing in common with the other, but only one thing. 

Btw. I think Baseball is a wonderful sport. Second only to football in team sports.

 

 

 

[asvaberg]

2 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Problem  with that is, comparing Baseball to Football is like comparing Heavy Metal Music to Classical Music.  They have one thing in common with the other, but only one thing. 

 

Excellent 🙂

 

[east lower]

41 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Where Analytics Has Gone Since “Moneyball”

Since the revolutionary breakthrough in Oakland, the use of analytics in baseball has become the norm, not the exception. Every team uses analytics to some extent.

One of the most famous cases involves the Boston Red Sox. The team, which had not won a World Series since 1918, won four times in the 21st century after taking an analytics approach under General Manager Theo Epstein and his successors.

Tom Tippett also proved a key member of the team’s success. Tippett worked as senior baseball analyst for the Red Sox from 2003 to 2016. He created realistic simulation programs to use in analytics, including the program used to power Diamond Mind Online simulation baseball.

The game ranks as one of the best simulation games, with many additions and refinements over the years. Players can play the game using baseball players from every era and use current and historical ballparks. Those curious about how it works can register and try a free game.

Epstein famously took the same analytics approach to the Chicago Cubs in 2011, eventually guiding the team to a World Series victory in 2016, the team’s first since 1908.

Analytics have also kept smaller teams thriving. Perhaps the most famous example of this is the Tampa Bay Rays, a team that adheres to an analytics-driven approach to all phases of team management and the game itself. The Rays have been one of the most successful baseball teams in the last 15 years. The Rays have made the playoffs eight times since 2008, winning two American League pennants. They’ve remained competitive even against teams in their own division with payrolls twice the size of what the Rays pay.

Rays Former General Manager Andrew Friedman left in 2014 for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Since then, the Dodgers have won a World Series (over, of all teams, the Rays), three pennants and six division titles. The Houston Astros, winners of the 2022 World Series, also use analytics in their approach to managing the team.

Well, given that could the current Chelsea FC owners f**k-off back to America, stay there and apply their BS ideas to American Sports 👍

[Sciatika]

@asvaberg Vivaldi was always a bit rock'n'roll because he favoured simple three-chord I-IV-V harmonisation that's also the basis of 12-bar and modern pop music. One story about him is that his job was teaching young orphan girls, which has always struck me as a bit weird. He had trained as a priest, so I suppose that they thought it would be OK.  However, not as weird as his contemporary, Jean Baptiste Lully, who died of conducting. In Lully's day, the conductor would beat time with a long wooden pole against the floor. Apparently, Lully hit his own foot, and refused to have the toe amputated, got gangrene and died. 

[asvaberg]

2 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

@asvaberg Vivaldi was always a bit rock'n'roll because he favoured simple three-chord I-IV-V harmonisation that's also the basis of 12-bar and modern pop music. One story about him is that his job was teaching young orphan girls, which has always struck me as a bit weird. He had trained as a priest, so I suppose that they thought it would be OK.  However, not as weird as his contemporary, Jean Baptiste Lully, who died of conducting. In Lully's day, the conductor would beat time with a long wooden pole against the floor. Apparently, Lully hit his own foot, and refused to have the toe amputated, got gangrene and died. 

Thanks. And yes, both stories are well known to me. I'm over average enthusiast in classical music 🎶 🎵 (and hard rock)

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Problem  with that is, comparing Baseball rounders to Football is like comparing Heavy Metal Music to Classical Music.  They have one thing in common with the other, but only one thing. 

Btw. I think Baseball rounders is a wonderful sport. Second only to football in team sports.

 

 

 

corrected

[Bones]

49 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

@asvaberg Vivaldi was always a bit rock'n'roll because he favoured simple three-chord I-IV-V harmonisation that's also the basis of 12-bar and modern pop music. One story about him is that his job was teaching young orphan girls, which has always struck me as a bit weird. He had trained as a priest, so I suppose that they thought it would be OK.  However, not as weird as his contemporary, Jean Baptiste Lully, who died of conducting. In Lully's day, the conductor would beat time with a long wooden pole against the floor. Apparently, Lully hit his own foot, and refused to have the toe amputated, got gangrene and died. 

I am continously surprised how well educated and smart our forum members are!!! Very interesting

[Bones]

3 hours ago, Rob B said:

My mind was fully made up on Poch during the Man United game.  

Until then, I'd been on the fence because I felt like the squad were behind the manager, we need stability, he'd had injuries etc, but the last two games have sold it for me, he has to go.

He's tactically inept and the players aren't developing, in fact, many of them are regressing.   The run we've had over the last 10 games (against incredibly poor opposition I might add) feels like it's happened on some occasional brilliance / talent alone.   There is no cohesion, no patterns of play, no defensive structure and no plan. 

The starting 11 yesterday was awful - Cucurella and Gallagher on the left,  Disasi and Madueke on the right,  Palmer in the centre,  none of it worked.  But for some unknown reason, he refuses to change until it's too late.  Which has happened time and time again this season,  the game was crying out for a couple of subs around the hour mark yesterday  - move Palmer back to the right, bring on Chukwuemeka in the middle, and introduce Mudryk or Sterling on the left to pin them back.   Everyone can see it, apart from Poch. 

Despite having 8 days before the next game, I suspect we are stuck with him until the end of the season now, but surely enough's enough? 

Same here, been on the fence, mind made up after last two games.

Everyone here know football so can see the tactical changes your are describing. But can our owners see them? Maybe "football people" can tell that to them, but can they swallow their pride to make the necessary management adjustments?

[Max Fowler]

Axidental Disasti

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Axidental Disasti

 

 

Who knew a lumbering centre half wouldn't be any good as a foraging wing back .

Not the coach apparently