Injury News

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, Bison said:

All media reports suggests he is settled at Chelsea, want to stay and it's all about contract length. This will be the last big deal of his career so it makes sense he wants to get it right.

Denying yourself the option of a healthy Kante is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I'm not singling him out id do it with Mendy and Mount too.

Kante will be elsewhere this summer and we won't get a penny for him.

[Bison]

Just now, Mark Kelly said:

I'm not singling him out id do it with Mendy and Mount too.

Kante will be elsewhere this summer and we won't get a penny for him.

Looks that way unfortunately. And to be totally honest, if I was Kante, I'd be out the door too.

He will have his pick of the elite clubs in Europe and the chance of working with some of the best managers in the game.

[Bob Singleton]

Good news 🙂  This was earlier today.

[thevelourfog]

13 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Good news 🙂  This was earlier today.

"Nice to meet you ... And you are ... ??"

[Michael Tucker]

6 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

"Nice to meet you ... And you are ... ??"

😜

 

[xceleryx]

7 hours ago, Bison said:

Looks that way unfortunately. And to be totally honest, if I was Kante, I'd be out the door too.

He will have his pick of the elite clubs in Europe and the chance of working with some of the best managers in the game.

Will he though? 

In La Liga he doesn't fit Real Marid's needs, nor is he a Barcelona type of player for the football Xavi plays. If Kante is chasing a big contract still then that more or less rules out Serie A sides altogether. He's not going to play ahead of either Kimmich or Goretzka at Bayern in Germany. Looking at other Premier League clubs Arsenal may be interested in a short term deal depending on what happens with old mate, but he's still not an ideal fit due to technical limitations and inability to anchor the midfield. Man Utd don't need him, nor do Man City. I could see Liverpool maybe taking some interest as he would fit Klopps football and their midfield is in desperate need of some investment, but Kante would present a short term solution and with risk attached. Otherwise you're looking at maybe Spurs or Newcastle. This more or less just leaves PSG as the only real other possibility. 

Looking beyond the reputation Kante has, there's a lot of reg flags attached to the present day edition of Kante. Team's aren't going to overlook the fact he'll be 32 and comes with injury troubles over the last 3-4 years. Any reasonably run club aren't going to throw aimless wads of cash at him imo.

[Bison]

On 21/02/2023 at 23:59, xceleryx said:

Will he though? 

In La Liga he doesn't fit Real Marid's needs, nor is he a Barcelona type of player for the football Xavi plays. If Kante is chasing a big contract still then that more or less rules out Serie A sides altogether. He's not going to play ahead of either Kimmich or Goretzka at Bayern in Germany. Looking at other Premier League clubs Arsenal may be interested in a short term deal depending on what happens with old mate, but he's still not an ideal fit due to technical limitations and inability to anchor the midfield. Man Utd don't need him, nor do Man City. I could see Liverpool maybe taking some interest as he would fit Klopps football and their midfield is in desperate need of some investment, but Kante would present a short term solution and with risk attached. Otherwise you're looking at maybe Spurs or Newcastle. This more or less just leaves PSG as the only real other possibility. 

Looking beyond the reputation Kante has, there's a lot of reg flags attached to the present day edition of Kante. Team's aren't going to overlook the fact he'll be 32 and comes with injury troubles over the last 3-4 years. Any reasonably run club aren't going to throw aimless wads of cash at him imo.

I remember saying on the old form that I don't agree with your characterisation of Kante as some sort of unskilled workhorse. He has a unique profile as a player so I can understand why people have been and continue to be wrong about him so no real surprise.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Bison said:

I remember saying on the old form that I don't agree with your characterisation of Kante as some sort of unskilled workhorse. He has a unique profile as a player so I can understand why people have been and continue to be wrong about him so no real surprise.

He does have a unique profile, but it all hinges on his energy and athleticism. Once that wanes, which it already has done in the last couple of years, his impact will diminish courtesy of having few strings to his bow to fall back upon. Unless of course he's been hiding these over the last however many years his career has spanned for.

But hey, we'll see what happens. As I've said before, historically players in the mould of Kante don't age well once they lose their legs have little else to turn towards, so we'll see if he bucks that trend or not. 

[Mark Kelly]

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

He does have a unique profile, but it all hinges on his energy and athleticism. Once that wanes, which it already has done in the last couple of years, his impact will diminish courtesy of having few strings to his bow to fall back upon. Unless of course he's been hiding these over the last however many years his career has spanned for.

But hey, we'll see what happens. As I've said before, historically players in the mould of Kante don't age well once they lose their legs have little else to turn towards, so we'll see if he bucks that trend or not. 

My issue is that I hope we don't play him as far forward as we have been , someone who rarely assist's , rarely scores and has no discernible passing range shouldn't be utilised as the midfielder nearest the opposition goal.  Fine player , absolutely excellent at harrying and winning the ball back but an attacking midfielder he ain't.

[xceleryx]

16 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

My issue is that I hope we don't play him as far forward as we have been , someone who rarely assist's , rarely scores and has no discernible passing range shouldn't be utilised as the midfielder nearest the opposition goal.  Fine player , absolutely excellent at harrying and winning the ball back but an attacking midfielder he ain't.

Completely agree, been a big gripe of mine for awhile. Like, I understand he works/worked great when looking to engage a high press but often once he won the ball back it went nowhere anyway because he lacks other qualities on ball to capitalise. 

The big question is whether he can play a more reserved type of football where he's not like an energetic dog trying to chase a ball all over the park. I have my reservations however as if he could, this was something he should've been beginning to transition towards a good 3-4 years ago to prepare. 

[martin1905]

I'm still of the opinion that Kante will be a huge asset, if he comes back fully fit and recovered from his injury problems, hopefully the surgery he had will fix that.

His age doesn't bother me, he's not quite 32 so nowhere near past it and the modern day footballer has, or should have, completely changed the outlook of older players.

He may lose a yard but he's never been that reliant on his pace. He's so unique in his athleticism and work rate that it's impossible to compare him to other players as he's a complete freak and a one off. He's also not played that much football throughout his career. His level was so high, best I've ever seen at what he does, by far, even if he's not quite the same he will still be an absolute beast.

So for me a new contract is and absolute no brainer and I think he will prove a lot of people wrong.

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by martin1905

[asvaberg]

49 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

My issue is that I hope we don't play him as far forward as we have been , someone who rarely assist's , rarely scores and has no discernible passing range shouldn't be utilised as the midfielder nearest the opposition goal.  Fine player , absolutely excellent at harrying and winning the ball back but an attacking midfielder he ain't.

With Enzo, I would move Kante back as a "Makelele type of player", and Enzo as a "Fabregas type of player", if you get my meaning.

[Sciatika]

51 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I'm still of the opinion that Kante will be a huge asset, if he comes back fully fit and recovered from his injury problems, hopefully the surgery he had will fix that.

During Philip II's conquest, Sparta was left alone, relatively weak and without walls. He sent a message “If I invade Lakonia, you will be destroyed, never to rise again.” The Spartans replied, “If.”

[xceleryx]

56 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

With Enzo, I would move Kante back as a "Makelele type of player", and Enzo as a "Fabregas type of player", if you get my meaning.

The problem here is that Kante isn't disciplined enough to just sit. He gravitates towards the ball on all occasions and we saw that during the brief period in which he played that holding role under Conte, it wasn't good. 

You also basically neuter what makes Kante Kante by doing this, which then leaves you with a technically limited ball-winning midfielder that's not exactly comfortable with ball at feet in tight spaces. That's about the last thing you want when deep in your own defensive half.

[asvaberg]

Valid points, @xceleryx

 

[martin1905]

14 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

During Philip II's conquest, Sparta was left alone, relatively weak and without walls. He sent a message “If I invade Lakonia, you will be destroyed, never to rise again.” The Spartans replied, “If.”

Well, if course IF is a big word but it's a risk Vs reward thing for me. The risk is tiny the reward potentially huge.

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, xceleryx said:

The problem here is that Kante isn't disciplined enough to just sit. He gravitates towards the ball on all occasions and we saw that during the brief period in which he played that holding role under Conte, it wasn't good. 

You also basically neuter what makes Kante Kante by doing this, which then leaves you with a technically limited ball-winning midfielder that's not exactly comfortable with ball at feet in tight spaces. That's about the last thing you want when deep in your own defensive half.

Absolutely, Kante never has and never will be a holding midfielder.

 

[xceleryx]

Just now, martin1905 said:

Absolutely, Kante never has and never will be a holding midfielder.

 

Which is a big part of why it boggles me that we're handing him a new deal so eagerly. 

As I discussed earlier (can't remember if in here or the Kante thread itself), but he's an awkward fit for us moving forward. We can't pair Enzo and Kante together, they both require a holding player as a partner to fully maximise their qualities. We're not going to drop Enzo, so that leaves no real spot for Kante. If we play a midfield three then we're stilling needing a holding player, but it would at least allow us to play both Kante and Enzo together while maximising their strengths and with protection behind.

This however creates problems further ahead for Joao Felix and eventually Nkunku, god forbid we end up with both next season. To squeeze that third CM into the side it'll mean sacrificing the central attacking midfield spot where Joao Felix currently occupies, and where Nkunku also likes to play. We're not going to drop either player because that would be absurd, so that leaves us with having to shoehorn them elsewhere and that's equally absurd to do. Especially after all these years trying to squeeze players into alternative roles. 

We need to look beyond the reputation of Kante and what he's achieved and realise that the present day version isn't worth catering the side around anymore, it would also be foolish to do given his age and injury troubles at this stage of his career. The profile of player he is simply isn't what present day Chelsea need in any capacity, we need a bonafide holding player to maximise those we currently have that'll propel us forward for years to come. Love the smiley man, but as Kenny Rogers said - "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em", and we need to be folding on Kante. 

[asvaberg]

So neither @martin1905 nor @xceleryx would approve this lineup?

                   Kepa

     Fofana - Silva - Badiashile

James                            Chilwell

                    Kante

        Felix - Enzo - Mudryk

                D.Fofana

 

[Mark Kelly]

11 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

So neither @martin1905 nor @xceleryx would approve this lineup?

                   Kepa

     Fofana - Silva - Badiashile

James                            Chilwell

                    Kante

        Felix - Enzo - Mudryk

                D.Fofana

 

I think the issue is , we'd end up with this instead:

   Kepa

     Fofana - Silva - Badiashile

James                            Chilwell

                   

        Felix - Enzo - Mudryk 

Kante                                                 

                D.Fofana

Edited February 24, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[xceleryx]

55 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

So neither @martin1905 nor @xceleryx would approve this lineup?

                   Kepa

     Fofana - Silva - Badiashile

James                            Chilwell

                    Kante

        Felix - Enzo - Mudryk

                D.Fofana

 

Parts of it are okay, others not so much. 

If we're going to play a back three I think the backline and wingbacks are spot on. It's the midfield and attack that issues begin to take shape, although I don't mind D.Fofana being upfront. 

1. Kante as a holding player is a stern no-go. 
2. Enzo starting high in an attacking midfield position probably isn't the best, you ideally want him getting on the ball deeper to initiate plays and then moving forward as things progress. 
3. Neither Felix or Mudryk are best served in those hybrid like winger-come-attacking midfield roles, more so Mudryk who is an out and out winger more than anything else. While Felix you want to be kept as central as possible and not having to take up wide positions away from goal. 

Those would be the three main basic points of contention. 

[Ham]

2 hours ago, Sciatika said:

During Philip II's conquest, Sparta was left alone, relatively weak and without walls. He sent a message “If I invade Lakonia, you will be destroyed, never to rise again.” The Spartans replied, “If.”

Was it not the Spartans who also famously said "If your Aunt had plums she'd be your Uncle? 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, asvaberg said:

So neither @martin1905 nor @xceleryx would approve this lineup?

                   Kepa

     Fofana - Silva - Badiashile

James                            Chilwell

                    Kante

        Felix - Enzo - Mudryk

                D.Fofana

 

Anything with three at the back is a massive no to me.

I do however like

Kante DM Enzo

Sterling Nkunku Mudryk

Can't count on Felix being here so can't put him in. Mount too I think will be gone in the summer.

And I know Nkunku isn't a proper number 9 but I think we will see us play without one and have a very fluid front three.

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Which is a big part of why it boggles me that we're handing him a new deal so eagerly. 

The data, along with TB wanting to watch kante on the field of play, seeing as TB has basically paid the man a weekly wage to sit in the sick tent since he took over the club

[chara]

3 hours ago, Ham said:

Was it not the Spartans who also famously said "If your Aunt had plums she'd be your Uncle? 

No Ham..that was the Blyth Spartans...a common mistake.

Kante...Shankley oft quoted by me..."Better gone a year too early than a year too late"...bite the bullet..(Hmm iffy movie with some great "bits")