Tottenham Hotspur 1 Chelsea 4

[Dwmh]

13 hours ago, ROTG said:

When the club's GK coach and recruitment dept are ex Brighton, there is not really any scouting involved.  

On the other hand I could be completely wrong and the gang of three went to todd & Eggy's with a list of  3rd choice GK's for them to decide which was the best option. 

Completely wrong, yeah.
So in the modern data driven world the key issues are which metrics do your scouts use to rate and value players.

So for outfield players one set of scouts might choose Km run per game and balls won as key metrics  (crudely how it works).
In which case there is little surprise that Cucurella and Caicedo have been bought by the scouting team - TWICE.

Sanchez rates high on crosses and shot stopping and low with the ball at this feet.  Some will consistently prefer him over say Kepa.
It is the metrics used that determine which players get chosen.

[Chelsea_Matt]

If we get beaten 5-0 but we rattle into tackles, run our socks off and fight for each other I’ll take that over a quiet, easy and comfortable 2-0 defeat. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

So in the modern data driven world the key issues are w

 

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

So in the modern data driven world the key issues are which metrics do your scouts use to rate and value players.

How very American. 

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

In which case there is little surprise that Cucurella and Caicedo have been bought by the scouting team - TWICE.

 Not sure who epiphany Cucurella was but the gang of three have a get out of jail pass for him. 
 

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Sanchez rates high on crosses and shot stopping and low with the ball at this feet.  Some will consistently prefer him over say Kepa.

So if I understand you kepa is a 4th choice keeper or division 2 first choice if Sanchez is rated by the gang of three. 

[Dwmh]

1 minute ago, ROTG said:

So if I understand

No you don't.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Completely wrong, yeah.
So in the modern data driven world the key issues are which metrics do your scouts use to rate and value players.

So for outfield players one set of scouts might choose Km run per game and balls won as key metrics  (crudely how it works).
In which case there is little surprise that Cucurella and Caicedo have been bought by the scouting team - TWICE.

Sanchez rates high on crosses and shot stopping and low with the ball at this feet.  Some will consistently prefer him over say Kepa.
It is the metrics used that determine which players get chosen.

Do scouts actually watch players these days?

[chara]

25 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Do scouts actually watch players these days?

I keep looking for the I-I statistics...you know the one....a pair of "eyes" and believing what you see not what numbers tell you!

[DannyLB]

I am actually feeling confident. Pure eye test statement: we’re a better side away. 
 

We have also been shown this season that the team will raise its levels for the bigger occasions. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 minutes ago, DannyLB said:

I am actually feeling confident. Pure eye test statement: we’re a better side away. 
 

We have also been shown this season that the team will raise its levels for the bigger occasions. 

Cool story bro🙃🤣

[Bison]

Just looking at the table and shaking my head. We are so far off the pace. We need a win here if we're to stand any chance of finishing in the top 10.

[Max Fowler]

Among other things I worry how T Silva will cope with the pace of Son up top.

He never looks a fool but he could be exposed.

[ROTG]

10 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Do scouts actually watch players these days?

Not at our club. 

Can't remember a more obvious lack of scouting over the past two windows, with the club going down the road of hiring scouts mid/lower PL teams and using their ready made lists of players suitable for those level teams, with the exception of Enzo which seems to be a todd & Eggy's ego signing.

Hence the cluster Poch has on his hands.

Should the club go shopping against in January it will be interesting to see which recruitment path the club goes for. 

[kev61]

12 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Completely wrong, yeah.
So in the modern data driven world the key issues are which metrics do your scouts use to rate and value players.

 

Scouts use metrics? - wow I thought they are there to identify talent and then things move further up the chain of hierarchy. 

If scouts can't Identify talent with their own judgement without data then they are worthless.

[My Blood Is Blue]

No confidence going into this one whatsoever. Tottenham are in very good form and full of confidence and we are the exact opposite of that. We’re 14 points behind them after 10 games and a win for them not only gets one over us, but also a former manager and more than anything, takes them back top… how the tables have turned.

My biggest concern for Monday, is how much respect Poch is going to pay Spurs and I think we’re just going to end up inviting them on to us and once they then get the first goal, it’ll be over and then just a case of how many.

Am I being too negative? Maybe, but this is where I feel we are at the moment. Our big matches this season will be against those in and around us and that is not the top 6 or even 8.

[Mark Kelly]

50 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

No confidence going into this one whatsoever. Tottenham are in very good form and full of confidence and we are the exact opposite of that. We’re 14 points behind them after 10 games and a win for them not only gets one over us, but also a former manager and more than anything, takes them back top… how the tables have turned.

My biggest concern for Monday, is how much respect Poch is going to pay Spurs and I think we’re just going to end up inviting them on to us and once they then get the first goal, it’ll be over and then just a case of how many.

Am I being too negative? Maybe, but this is where I feel we are at the moment. Our big matches this season will be against those in and around us and that is not the top 6 or even 8.

Having seen the press conference , I agree with you , he unsurprisingly still has a deeply held affection for Spurs and I don't believe he wants to tarnish the way their imbecile supporters feel about him . That said , we do generally raise our game and play better than normally when we're not facing the dreaded low block , however , whatever way you slice it , they can score goals and we are clueless once we cross the halfway line .

If Mudryk plays I will give him five minutes before Romero puts him out for the rest of the season whilst the referee looks elsewhere. 

[Dwmh]

9 hours ago, kev61 said:

Scouts use metrics? - wow I thought they are there to identify talent and then things move further up the chain of hierarchy. 

If scouts can't Identify talent with their own judgement without data then they are worthless.

Perfectly sensible in the world where the only opinion that counts is yours.  Clearly in that world scouts should do nothing without calling you first.
But in the real world, this is possibly the stupidest thing you have written Kev.

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Having seen the press conference , I agree with you , he unsurprisingly still has a deeply held affection for Spurs and I don't believe he wants to tarnish the way their imbecile supporters feel about him .

Or he has his eye on his next set of job interviews and want to make sure he is remembered as a Spurs and Southampton manager for whom he won trophies  (4 manager of the month awards) and not as another Chelsea temp.

[xceleryx]

21 hours ago, ROTG said:

Not at our club. 

Can't remember a more obvious lack of scouting over the past two windows, with the club going down the road of hiring scouts mid/lower PL teams and using their ready made lists of players suitable for those level teams, with the exception of Enzo which seems to be a todd & Eggy's ego signing.

Hence the cluster Poch has on his hands.

Should the club go shopping against in January it will be interesting to see which recruitment path the club goes for. 

You piss and moan at the best of times, but since the change of ownership and reworking of the transfer department you've elevated your efforts considerably. 

We've scouted just fine, as evident by the talent we've managed to pick up over the last couple of windows. Of course, a sizeable chunk of the focus has been on potential that'll hopefully develop further into top draw quality as time goes on. That doesn't constitute as substandard talent ID-ing, but rather fitting the blueprinted approach that's been set out. Whether you agree with that plan is irrelevant, it's a subjective topic that'll divide opinions regardless. 

For someone that loiters around just waiting for their moment to dismiss ownership, transfer department, scouting, our signings, and whatever else in between, you provide literally no informed alternative whenever pressed on the matter. Who should we be signing? What scouts should we be hiring? What should those scouts hired being looking at when doing their job? What meets the ROTG standard? 

Let's not pretend our recruitment was any better under Roman's tenure either, which you'll no doubt deflect towards as history has shown. We'd been utterly aimless for years, signing players with no rhyme or reason to how they'd fit or what we needed. Often spending absorbent amounts for the luxury of it all as well. 

At least we've got a plan in place that we're looking to follow, it may take patience and time to bear fruit, but it's a far more sustainable approach within the way modern football now works. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by xceleryx

[ROTG]

49 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

You piss and moan at the best of times, but since the change of ownership and reworking of the transfer department you've elevated your efforts considerably. 

No moaning just an opinion rather than being a lemming. 

50 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We've scouted just fine, as evident by the talent we've managed to pick up over the last couple of windows. Of course, a sizeable chunk of the focus has been on potential that'll hopefully develop further into top draw quality as time goes on. That doesn't constitute as substandard talent ID-ing, but rather fitting the blueprinted approach that's been set out. Whether you agree with that plan is irrelevant, it's a subjective topic that'll divide opinions regardless. 

Who have the gang of three scouted outside the list of players who were on their previous employers radar or just went brought someone from there previous employers. Not forgetting there previous employers were Brighton, Southampton and Monaco which sums up the recruitment level nicely. 

55 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

For someone that loiters around just waiting for their moment to dismiss ownership, transfer department, scouting, our signings, and whatever else in between, you provide literally no informed alternative whenever pressed on the matter. Who should we be signing? What scouts should we be hiring? What should those scouts hired being looking at when doing their job? What meets the ROTG standard? 

I am not a qualified football person, therefore my opinion is meaningless, however to keep top 4 continuity, winning trophies and maintain the high bar, the recruitment needs to be of a certain level.  You can look at al the top team and ourselves prior to the takeover and see the level of player required.

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Let's not pretend our recruitment was any better under Roman's tenure either, which you'll no doubt deflect towards as history has shown. We'd been utterly aimless for years, signing players with no rhyme or reason to how they'd fit or what we needed. Often spending absorbent amounts for the luxury of it all as well. 

See above comments, the trophy cabinet and continual top 4 and qualification to CL / UEFA and winning them along with the occasional domestic cup since the Conte final season, with many of the recruited players playing key roles in that period of the team's success. 

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

At least we've got a plan in place that we're looking to follow, it may take patience and time to bear fruit, but it's a far more sustainable approach within the way modern football now works. 

Absolute poppy-cock. 

We have no plan in place, as the past 3 windows have proven. The gang of 3 have put the club so far behind the 8 ball it is embarrassing. Even a coach of Pep's stature would steer clear of this poop show. Let see if the u23 buying  philosophy stay in place this January?

Sustainability is based on revenue generation, how many more season can the club survive without the rewards of CL football and being a top team. The pot is almost dry with your favourite idea of selling a academy players so where will the money come from after that in order to keep within FFP?

Modern day football involves having the right structure in place with footballing people running the day to day affairs and  supporting the club to continually evolve in keeping ahead of the chasing packs. Chitty, Dippers, toon toon are examples of this philosophy followed by Spuds and the Arse, as the league table demonstrates. 

[kev61]

14 hours ago, Dwmh said:

 Clearly in that world scouts should do nothing without calling you first.
 

Many a true word said in jest😉.

You remind me of a judge that knows everything about the law but knows nothing about justice.

Javert springs to mind in les miserable. 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by kev61

[Floyd25]

On 02/11/2023 at 10:09, paulw66 said:

Sanchez, James, Colwill, Silva, Disasi, Enzo, Caicedo, Gallagher, Sterling, Palmer, Mudryk

I reckon Poch sticks with Jar Jar Binks up front for now, despite his obvious struggles, jokes aside I really hope he can regain some confidence and quickly, body language doesn’t look great. 

[kev61]

I have no idea who we should play and I have a feeling Poch doesn't either.

[Rob B]

I’d go with these 11 players.  
 

                                 Sanchez

James.          Silva            Badiashille.       Colwill

             Caicedo.      Enzo.     Gallagher

   Sterling.                Palmer.               Mudryk 

 

Not quite sure how you’d line them up in a formation,  but I guess Palmer as a false 9 because quite frankly, Jackson’s confidence is shot to pieces. 

The 4 central guys to get around Spurs midfield, and Sterling / Mudryk to stay high and wide to use their pace for transitions. 

[Holymoly]

On 04/11/2023 at 15:00, Chelsea_Matt said:

If we get beaten 5-0 but we rattle into tackles, run our socks off and fight for each other I’ll take that over a quiet, easy and comfortable 2-0 defeat. 

Err....I don't think so. I actually do think we'll lose but I'm hoping it's not a thumping, whatever the circumstances. Pochettino is going to come under a huge amount of scrutiny tonight, whether it be team selection, tactics or substitutions. I fear he will be out managed by Ange and the team will suffer accordingly.

[Sciatika]

12 minutes ago, Rob B said:

I’d go with these 11 players.  
 

                                 Sanchez

James.          Silva            Badiashille.       Colwill

             Caicedo.      Enzo.     Gallagher

   Sterling.                Palmer.               Mudryk 

 

Not quite sure how you’d line them up in a formation,  but I guess Palmer as a false 9 because quite frankly, Jackson’s confidence is shot to pieces. 

The 4 central guys to get around Spurs midfield, and Sterling / Mudryk to stay high and wide to use their pace for transitions. 

I imagine a very fluid 4-2-4

[xceleryx]

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

No moaning just an opinion rather than being a lemming. 

Mate, you literally sit on here waiting for an opportunity to take a pop at the new ownership, recruitment, our scouting, an virtually everything else in between. 

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

Who have the gang of three scouted outside the list of players who were on their previous employers radar or just went brought someone from there previous employers. Not forgetting there previous employers were Brighton, Southampton and Monaco which sums up the recruitment level nicely. 

You realise how ridiculous it is to dismiss scouting and recruitment teams from using their knowledge garnered through prior work, right? Man City have scouts who last worked at Leeds, Deportivo, New York, SönderjyskE, Grasshopper, and other clubs that fall well outside of the big leagues. Yet, they manage to do just fine when it comes to finding players. 

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

I am not a qualified football person, therefore my opinion is meaningless, however to keep top 4 continuity, winning trophies and maintain the high bar, the recruitment needs to be of a certain level.  You can look at al the top team and ourselves prior to the takeover and see the level of player required.

A little ironic that for someone that isn't a qualified football person to have such a strong and dismissive opinion about footballing matters and recruitment. It's not really as linear as you're projecting the matter to be either. Sure, there's a standard required at all levels of the game and you look to recruit for that. Sometimes that may come in the form of buying ready made established options, sometimes that's investing in higher potential that may take a bit more time to grow. There's not hard and fast rule at the end of the day. 

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

See above comments, the trophy cabinet and continual top 4 and qualification to CL / UEFA and winning them along with the occasional domestic cup since the Conte final season, with many of the recruited players playing key roles in that period of the team's success. 

Yes, and as I detailed before we were hardly impressive during a lot of those years when it came to our domestic form. Often just scraping by or relying on other teams to help us out, hardly anything impressive about it. All while not looking remotely close to challenging for a title any time soon. Winning a few cup competitions was nice, but it doesn't change the bigger picture. 

7 hours ago, ROTG said:

Absolute poppy-cock. 

We have no plan in place, as the past 3 windows have proven. The gang of 3 have put the club so far behind the 8 ball it is embarrassing. Even a coach of Pep's stature would steer clear of this poop show. Let see if the u23 buying  philosophy stay in place this January?

Sustainability is based on revenue generation, how many more season can the club survive without the rewards of CL football and being a top team. The pot is almost dry with your favourite idea of selling a academy players so where will the money come from after that in order to keep within FFP?

Modern day football involves having the right structure in place with footballing people running the day to day affairs and  supporting the club to continually evolve in keeping ahead of the chasing packs. Chitty, Dippers, toon toon are examples of this philosophy followed by Spuds and the Arse, as the league table demonstrates. 

Shows just how bitter you are towards ownership you cannot even bring yourself to acknowledging the clear plan we're undertaking. Whether you like or agree with it is irrelevant, it's still there. Which of course is to rebuild through high potential young players, eventually allowing us to have a strong foundation of talent that can be then built upon further with the addition of additional quality.  

This the same Pep that turned us down reportedly several times under Roman's reign, including once claiming he'd need like eleven new players?  So yeah, I'd also expect him to turn us down now when we're undertaking the sort of rebuild and project we are. Hardly shocking events. 

I don't know the answer to that, I don't work for the club to know the ins and outs of our financial situation and how our sustainability is to be forecasted and handled. What I do know though is that ownership certainly aren't going to sit on their hands and see their investment nestle itself at the bottom of the toilet bowl either. Given how they run their other sporting ventures, they'll spend and do what's needed to get a winning team on the park, given that's ultimately the best way for them to also generate maximum profits. 

A structure we lacked prior and played a big part in years of wayward spending and a decline in standards. City took years to get to where they are, as did Liverpool and Arsenal. Newcastle are slowly building themselves, and Tottenham could still very much go either way at this stage. None of them are comparable to our situation, with the exception of Arsenal to a degree. Rome wasn't built in a day, and it won't happen here either with  what we're undertaking.