Chelsea 0 Aston Villa 2

[Mark Kelly]

14 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Newcastle haven't won a sausage since the Beatles were in their pomp, yet they fill their ground every game. West Ham haven't won anything for nearly 50 years yet they fill a 60,000 stadium. That is long-standing suffering and loyal support for you right there! 

There are many good reasons for not going to a game - Can't get time off work. On holiday. I'll health. Family reasons. Special social occassion. Can't afford the price of the tickets. Even just feeling a bit tierd and down and not up to going out that day. Not going because the team is playing crap is never a good enough excuse imho.

I agree in principal but this is so abject , so terrible , so hopeless that I can understand why some just can't take it when the board seemingly don't give a monkey's what they have done to this club , from day one they've got everything wrong .  They got the wrong coach , paid him the wrong money , bought the wrong players and are now going to sell the wrong players , you can practically guarantee that whatever decision they make about the ground will be the wrong one too.

Boehly and Potter should both go.

[east lower]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I agree in principal but this is so abject , so terrible , so hopeless that I can understand why some just can't take it when the board seemingly don't give a monkey's what they have done to this club , from day one they've got everything wrong .  They got the wrong coach , paid him the wrong money , bought the wrong players and are now going to sell the wrong players , you can practically guarantee that whatever decision they make about the ground will be the wrong one too.

Boehly and Potter should both go.

As far as I'm concerned 100% this. 

We've been stiffed by the Government and then Boehly and his circus. They are not fit to mention in the same breath as Roman, who cared for the club, the fans and its success.

This mob, clearly don't know what they're doing. At least with Roman,  if he made a mistake ala AVB, Scolari (?) he sorted it and quickly.

Managers knew what the deal was, win or you're out, and guess what - we won and more than anyone else.

Project, process, xG, yada, yada - my arse! Win some damn football matches.

Rant over and I still don't feel any better. 

Dog is going for a long walk over the common, pub lunch and a few beers.

Edited April 2, 2023 by east lower

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

I agree it was lazy, but that's largely because it was just a quick breakdown of the midfield. I've addressed some of its issue in wider detail in the squad status thread a week or two back.

Taking a more in-depth look at the situation still presents a lot of the same issues of years gone by, irrespective of whether or not Enzo is an upgrade on Jorginho. 

• Enzo gives us creativity, technical quality, vision and a wider scope of passing range than any other we've had since Fabregas. Defensively he's quite reasonable also, but it's not his primary strength nor the side of the ball his role should be focused around. Right now we're probably maximising about 50% of his capabilities, and that's being generous. This is largely because he's having to sacrifice his game to be that defensive option, whether that's in a midfield two or three. He needs to be playing with far more freedom and presence in the attacking third - we just can't afford that right now because of inadequate suitable partners.
• Kovacic is a fairly rounded player but doesn't particularly excel in either direction. He's excellent at what he does and I think quite under appreciated by many at times, but he's not the player that's going to thrive in a pivot either where he's also having to curb his game at times whenever Enzo does get the freedom to advance higher. I see him as the ideal third CM in a midfield trio, someone that does a bit of everything and adds balance between the holding midfielder and the more attacking #8 type. 
• Kante is a problem, I've said this before. It isn't because he's a bad player, but he's a fairly cumbersome fit tactically and with the direction we really need to move in with Enzo being a driving force. Can't maximise him in a pivot unless his partner sits and holds, fits best in a midfield three in a similar role to Kovacic, however he's far more technically stunted and an issue when it comes to having important possession in the attacking third. He works best when he's got freedom to roam about and win the ball high up the pitch.
• Then we have Mount, may not be here next season but under the assumption he is then there's no real midfield role for him unless he plays that #8 role in a midfield trio. That would have Enzo as the second CM and then proper holding player in behind - this keeps Kante and Kova on the bench. 
• Gallagher fits sort of in between a Kovacic and Kante. Technically limited but has the energy and endeavour of Kante, but is tactically naive and really works best with ample freedom to be a nuance. Can't play a pivot, which again makes him a better fit in a midfield trio as that #8 type. Probably not good enough to command a regular starting role, but can be useful in certain circumstances. 
• Chukwuemeka is still quite raw and is probably a couple years away from being in real contention should he develop. Has some nice traits, but again isn't suitable for a double pivot and suits a midfield trio more as a more attacking option. Looks more of a ball-carrier/runner type than a on ball creative. 

So once you gander at our midfield options there's a clear pattern on hand. We've got a massive shortage of creativity, technical quality, passing, vision and guile on the ball. Off the ball there's no real true defensive option on hand that has the tactical discipline and defensive attributes to anchor a midfield on their own. What we do have is quite a lot of cross-over between ball-winners and carriers - those that like to break lines. 

There's not a lot of combinations that can be formed out of our options that provide genuine cohesion and balance of skillsets while simultaneously filling the necessary roles as of them. You would have to think a proper holding player is a must get in the summer, that would help us tenfold across the board. It would unlock Enzo more in a double pivot, and if we were to be without Enzo at any point be able to make better use of a Kante or Kovacic in the role as we can let them play more naturally with protection behind.  Similarly we'd reap the benefits in a midfield three. Truthfully, we probably need two holding players coming in. This gives us a genuine backup to retain continuity, opposed to what we have no where every change we make requires adjusting other areas to negate deficiencies. 

First though we need to decide on how we want to play and what we're demanding from the positions in question. That way we can then go out and actually target the players with the required attributes to play in the manner desired, therefore creating balance and cohesion. 

I could go on further as this has a knock-on effect higher up the pitch with respects to our attacking midfield options and so on, what formations we're limited with, and so on. But I'm sure you get the drift already. 

For me the ideal bare minimum midfield group would look a little like so; 

Holding Midfielder, Backup Holding Midfielder, Enzo, Creative backup for Enzo, Kovacic, Attack minded CM.

This gives us the ability to play a double pivot in a couple of ways, we can play a midfield three and have balance, and we've got actual depth where we can make more seamless changes when needed without disrupting thing as much as we do now. 

TLDR

[xceleryx]

5 minutes ago, RDCW said:

TLDR

Jog on then champ.

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Jog on then champ.

Brevity is the soul of wit, so at least this is an improvement on your usual copious self-important nonsense.

[Ham]

 

🙁

 

[Mark Kelly]

11 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

🙁

 

As I said previously , their objective simply must be to make things so utterly terrible that they can remake the club in their own image so that when they eventually get success there is no shred of reflected glory towards the previous regime.

The levels of muppetry on show from the board downwards is incredible , we have a moron coach , we've bought loads of sub par "one for the future" players , our player of the year two seasons running wants out, the list goes on and on.

Nothing they have achieved so far has worked and these are the brains behind our next ground development . We'll be sharing with QPR soon.

[RDCW]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

As I said previously , their objective simply must be to make things so utterly terrible that they can remake the club in their own image so that when they eventually get success there is no shred of reflected glory towards the previous regime.

The levels of muppetry on show from the board downwards is incredible , we have a moron coach , we've bought loads of sub par "one for the future" players , our player of the year two seasons running wants out, the list goes on and on.

Nothing they have achieved so far has worked and these are the brains behind our next ground development . We'll be sharing with QPR soon.

The Super Hoops wouldn't want to be associated with the likes of us in this form - we would be an embarrassment.

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, RDCW said:

The Super Hoops wouldn't want to be associated with the likes of us in this form - we would be an embarrassment.

I didn't mean temporarily by the way 😭

[Miguelito07]

43 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

🙁

 

To be fair - the Board are not going to say ‘no we don’t back him’

. However, if Potter is still the manager next season then they Board are truly muppets 

[Holymoly]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Boehly and Potter should both go.

Baby, bathwater, etc

Let's just try changing the manager to someone who has a plan for what he wants first, eh? Don't forget this time last year it wasn't a foregone conclusion that we would still be here. As it is this is effectively a brand new club with new people from top to bottom. There are no players in the squad I would reckon can form a new core Chelsea FC ethos as they are either too young or not good enough. The owners have set out their plan, unfortunately the manager they settled upon doesn't have one of his own. He is clearly overawed by the job ahead of him and has yet to relieve himself of a mid tier mentality. I've been converted to the "Potter must go camp", don't overstretch your ambitions. 😉

[RDCW]

3 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

To be fair - the Board are not going to say ‘no we don’t back him’

. However, if Potter is still the manager next season then they Board are truly muppets 

Shall we call it a night? We'll you could hardly call it a show!

[Holymoly]

2 minutes ago, RDCW said:

Shall we call it a night? We'll you could hardly call it a show!

[RDCW]

4 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

To be fair - the Board are not going to say ‘no we don’t back him’

. However, if Potter is still the manager next season then they Board are truly muppets 

Ernie Potter and Bert Boehly using teaspoons while the fire of mediocrity burns the fabric of the club down.

[Original 21]

It’s no longer a case of Potter needs a preseason. Or the players are injured. Or whatever is the excuse of the week. Our form is down to plain managerial incompetence and the fact that the owners are tolerating it is hugely damaging to the club’s standing. 

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Is that us, Bach? Waldorf and Stadler.

Edited April 2, 2023 by RDCW

[RDCW]

9 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Baby, bathwater, etc

Let's just try changing the manager to someone who has a plan for what he wants first, eh? Don't forget this time last year it wasn't a foregone conclusion that we would still be here. As it is this is effectively a brand new club with new people from top to bottom. There are no players in the squad I would reckon can form a new core Chelsea FC ethos as they are either too young or not good enough. The owners have set out their plan, unfortunately the manager they settled upon doesn't have one of his own. He is clearly overawed by the job ahead of him and has yet to relieve himself of a mid tier mentality. I've been converted to the "Potter must go camp", don't overstretch your ambitions. 😉

The point is there was no need to renew the Club from top to bottom and if anyone is guilty of throwing out the baby with the bathwater it's Bert the muppet Boehly!

Edited April 2, 2023 by RDCW

[JaneB]

1 hour ago, RDCW said:

Brevity is the soul of wit, so at least this is an improvement on your usual copious self-important nonsense.

Be nice eh?

[RDCW]

57 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Be nice eh?

😇

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I agree it was lazy, but that's largely because it was just a quick breakdown of the midfield. I've addressed some of its issue in wider detail in the squad status thread a week or two back.

Taking a more in-depth look at the situation still presents a lot of the same issues of years gone by, irrespective of whether or not Enzo is an upgrade on Jorginho. 

• Enzo gives us creativity, technical quality, vision and a wider scope of passing range than any other we've had since Fabregas. Defensively he's quite reasonable also, but it's not his primary strength nor the side of the ball his role should be focused around. Right now we're probably maximising about 50% of his capabilities, and that's being generous. This is largely because he's having to sacrifice his game to be that defensive option, whether that's in a midfield two or three. He needs to be playing with far more freedom and presence in the attacking third - we just can't afford that right now because of inadequate suitable partners.
• Kovacic is a fairly rounded player but doesn't particularly excel in either direction. He's excellent at what he does and I think quite under appreciated by many at times, but he's not the player that's going to thrive in a pivot either where he's also having to curb his game at times whenever Enzo does get the freedom to advance higher. I see him as the ideal third CM in a midfield trio, someone that does a bit of everything and adds balance between the holding midfielder and the more attacking #8 type. 
• Kante is a problem, I've said this before. It isn't because he's a bad player, but he's a fairly cumbersome fit tactically and with the direction we really need to move in with Enzo being a driving force. Can't maximise him in a pivot unless his partner sits and holds, fits best in a midfield three in a similar role to Kovacic, however he's far more technically stunted and an issue when it comes to having important possession in the attacking third. He works best when he's got freedom to roam about and win the ball high up the pitch.
• Then we have Mount, may not be here next season but under the assumption he is then there's no real midfield role for him unless he plays that #8 role in a midfield trio. That would have Enzo as the second CM and then proper holding player in behind - this keeps Kante and Kova on the bench. 
• Gallagher fits sort of in between a Kovacic and Kante. Technically limited but has the energy and endeavour of Kante, but is tactically naive and really works best with ample freedom to be a nuance. Can't play a pivot, which again makes him a better fit in a midfield trio as that #8 type. Probably not good enough to command a regular starting role, but can be useful in certain circumstances. 
• Chukwuemeka is still quite raw and is probably a couple years away from being in real contention should he develop. Has some nice traits, but again isn't suitable for a double pivot and suits a midfield trio more as a more attacking option. Looks more of a ball-carrier/runner type than a on ball creative. 

So once you gander at our midfield options there's a clear pattern on hand. We've got a massive shortage of creativity, technical quality, passing, vision and guile on the ball. Off the ball there's no real true defensive option on hand that has the tactical discipline and defensive attributes to anchor a midfield on their own. What we do have is quite a lot of cross-over between ball-winners and carriers - those that like to break lines. 

There's not a lot of combinations that can be formed out of our options that provide genuine cohesion and balance of skillsets while simultaneously filling the necessary roles as of them. You would have to think a proper holding player is a must get in the summer, that would help us tenfold across the board. It would unlock Enzo more in a double pivot, and if we were to be without Enzo at any point be able to make better use of a Kante or Kovacic in the role as we can let them play more naturally with protection behind.  Similarly we'd reap the benefits in a midfield three. Truthfully, we probably need two holding players coming in. This gives us a genuine backup to retain continuity, opposed to what we have no where every change we make requires adjusting other areas to negate deficiencies. 

First though we need to decide on how we want to play and what we're demanding from the positions in question. That way we can then go out and actually target the players with the required attributes to play in the manner desired, therefore creating balance and cohesion. 

I could go on further as this has a knock-on effect higher up the pitch with respects to our attacking midfield options and so on, what formations we're limited with, and so on. But I'm sure you get the drift already. 

For me the ideal bare minimum midfield group would look a little like so; 

Holding Midfielder, Backup Holding Midfielder, Enzo, Creative backup for Enzo, Kovacic, Attack minded CM.

This gives us the ability to play a double pivot in a couple of ways, we can play a midfield three and have balance, and we've got actual depth where we can make more seamless changes when needed without disrupting thing as much as we do now. 

I agree with a lot of what you say, personally I’d also get a holding mid through the door. A tough man that can pass the ball around as well. Strong and fast and someone that attacking players don’t want to play against. A modern day Makelele with size (although such players aren’t really made anymore). Problem is that when I’m looking around I can’t see too many of those players around. I think we’d have to sign someone like City managed with Rodri, someone on the way up but yet to realise his full break-through season. 

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

A note to all members… I understand that we’re all frustrated, angry and a range of other emotions because of how things are going at our club. However, I have noticed an increase in posts that are becoming too personal in nature. While disagreements are inevitable, let us try to keep our discussions centered on football and Chelsea-related topics, rather than attacking each other personally.

I believe that we can maintain a respectful and engaging forum without the need for heavy moderation. Therefore, I encourage you to express your opinions about our club and its manager, rather than trying to outdo each other. If you feel the need to engage in personal discussions, please take it to private messages.

It’s okay to disagree and have different opinions, it’s football after all, but we should strive to maintain a level of respect and civility towards each other, otherwise it all becomes a bit boring to read!

[Mark Kelly]

38 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I agree with a lot of what you say, personally I’d also get a holding mid through the door. A tough man that can pass the ball around as well. Strong and fast and someone that attacking players don’t want to play against. A modern day Makelele with size (although such players aren’t really made anymore). Problem is that when I’m looking around I can’t see too many of those players around. I think we’d have to sign someone like City managed with Rodri, someone on the way up but yet to realise his full break-through season. 

 

Hojberg from Spurs? 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Hojberg from Spurs? 

When they signed him I laughed out loud. I'm not laughing much these days, one of their better signings in years imo. Very underrated!

[Sleeping Dave]

Potter sacked!

[Thiago97]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

When they signed him I laughed out loud. I'm not laughing much these days, one of their better signings in years imo. Very underrated!

Agree 100%. He would slot in here perfectly.