Chelsea 0 Aston Villa 2

[kev61]

22 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

A lot have done the same. Doesn't mean that they know what they're doing when running football club, does it?

Sorry, but now you're just confused me!

They have found their Achilles heel  in investment.I will answer a question with a question.Why are Americans  so readily wanting to invest in football when no club in europe is making money?

[kev61]

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

They have found their Achilles heel  in investment.I will answer a question with a question.Why are Americans  so readily wanting to invest in football when no club in europe is making money?

Just to add to that.We all know why the arabs do it they are sports washing.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, chara said:

Genuine question...can anyone...and there are some really good analysts here...tell me what the side set up was meant to produce today?

Help me anyone?

How I perceived it is as follows.

The back three combination looked more like it was built to preserve Reece James from the workload demand as a wingback by playing him RCB, Koulibaly through the middle is pretty standard, and then Cucurella at LCB wasn't unusual to see either and arguably seen to provide a bit more fluidity with his more comfortable nature of stepping up into midfield compared to Badiashile. 

Loftus-Cheek at RWB is always a puzzling move but once we opted for RJ at RCB the remaining options are slim. In theory it could've been seen as by having a better defender behind him in RJ compared to Chalobah (the only other real RCB option) it would allow Loftus-Cheek to focus more on getting forward and less so on getting back to defend. 

The midfield is a mess and has been for some time. That's not going to be rectified with the options on hand, nor a returning Kante. Irrespective of the double pivot combination we're asking either option to sacrifice their game for the other player, in the end it becomes unbalanced and too often sides get in behind to attack the defence with both midfielders caught the wrong side of the ball. Again, nothing unusual from what we've seen for some time now.

The attack looked based around trying to be fluid and replicating what we've seen in the last few games with getting Havertz a bit deeper, Mudryk (or Sterling when he's been fit) playing higher aiming to get in behind, and then Joao Felix floating around in the half spaces. As is often the case though there's no focal point, we move the ball with zero purpose into the attack, and we're heavily reliant on the wingbacks creating overloads to get in behind. Mudryk was often isolated or ignored, and we relied heavily on individualism to create rather than good movement and combination play. 

It's fine trying to be fluid in attack but you need to have the rest of ones house in order behind them. You can't expect an attack to flourish in any capacity when those around them aren't on the same page, and right now that's our problem. No one looks like they know what they should be doing, there's no direction or leadership - be it from the dugout via Potter, or from anyone on the pitch. 

This was not a starting eleven fielded to win a game. Too many players playing in potions or roles outside of their wheelhouse and requiring them to sacrifice their natural way of playing and negating their strengths, all while emphasising their weaknesses.

[kev61]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Sorry, but I don't care who I piss off with the comment, but that is poor from those Chelsea fans! Really, really poor and smacks of a spoilt, entitled fanbase and gives amunition to fans of other clubs who say we are a fair weather bunch.

It's easy to be a supporter when things are going well, but when  things are as awful as they are at this moment in time, that is when a team/club need their supporters more than ever! 

 

 

 

 

Oh come on!.the days of the flat cap and ten woodwind are gone when it comes to supporters.

You expect supporters to follow this array of millionaires and a PE teacher?

 

[kev61]

Just now, kev61 said:

Oh come on!.the days of the flat cap and ten woodbine are gone when it comes to supporters.

You expect supporters to follow this array of millionaires and a PE teacher?

 

 

[kev61]

2 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Oh come on!.the days of the flat cap and ten woodwind are gone when it comes to supporters.

You expect supporters to follow this array of millionaires and a PE teacher?

 

Woodwind? predictive text sorry.

[Michael Tucker]

8 minutes ago, kev61 said:

You expect supporters to follow this array of millionaires and a PE teacher?

Yes, just like they/we always have. Through thick and thin. Through owners big and small; wealthy and poor(ish). 

Of course, that doesn't mean that they/we have to like what being put on show, or the reasons for that.

[kev61]

4 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Yes, just like they/we always have. Through thick and thin. Through owners big and small; wealthy and poor(ish).

I'm welling up Michael.Are you being serious?

[Original 21]

Okay. Maybe Potter is already gone and everyone knows it but Boehly can’t announce it because of  financial stuff. So Potter knows it, the players know it, the Board know it. Hence, no one gives a s**t. Potter can mess about with the starting line up trying to prove to himself that he’s a genius. The players just try to humour Potter but know he’s out of his depth. And Boehly is just not bothering going to matches from now on because it’s too embarrassing and he needs to make sure Luis Enrique is committed to succeed Potter.

So really we just all need to chill out. Potter will be gone in a couple of months. The players will try and do their best against Real Madrid, despite Potter, and we’ll have a proper manager in place next season, as long as Boehly stops using whatever fuckwits advised him to hire Potter in the first place and brings in an experienced international manager whose worked at the highest level and who everyone can respect. It’s not bloody rocket science. 

[Michael Tucker]

4 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I'm welling up Michael.Are you being serious?

Yes I am. Are you mate? Because all I'm doing is telling the truth.

[kev61]

2 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Yes I am. Are you mate? 

No I'm not.I watched Chelsea in the early eighties every home game and some away games like oxford and cambridge because I wanted to see what these cities they looked like.

What does Chelsea fc offer me as a fan that I have followed for 50 years?

Except for nostalgia , nothing at the moment.

I could afford a season ticket but it is way down in my list of priorities and I reckon it is the same for our fans the length  and breadth of the country and beyond.

[Michael Tucker]

2 minutes ago, kev61 said:

No I'm not.

There you go.

2 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I watched Chelsea in the early eighties every home game and some away games like oxford and cambridge because I wanted to see what these cities they looked like.

Well mate. I've been watching Chelsea since the late 60's. at the ground, or on tv. So what?

 

[Michael Tucker]

Kev, you need to be very careful what you say next, and how you say it. You've been warned.

[kev61]

4 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Kev, you need to be very careful what you say next, and how you say it. You've been warned.

OK skipper I'll stick to the benign. 

[thevelourfog]

6 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Sorry, but I don't care who I piss off with the comment, but that is poor from those Chelsea fans! Really, really poor and smacks of a spoilt, entitled fanbase and gives amunition to fans of other clubs who say we are a fair weather bunch.

It's easy to be a supporter when things are going well, but when  things are as awful as they are at this moment in time, that is when a team/club need their supporters more than ever! 

The emboldened text ... So what? Any support of any club that is even partly founded on caring/worrying about what supporters of other clubs think is on pretty shaky ground to start with. I don't consider myself in competition with anyone else about how much I support my club, because I just don't care about how much other people support theirs. It's irrelevant to me. Besides, you'd have to be on another planet to think what @east lower describes doesn't happen absolutely everywhere. I know a Man Utd ST holder who was describing the same thing earlier this season, worked with a Liverpool supporter who described the same thing happening under Hodgson, Arsenal fans used to just not turn up because at that time they had no selling-on system. 

Not going is pretty much the only "power" (and it is hardly even that) ST holders have in making their views clear. And the reality is the cost makes this a big issue. If it's the 70s/80s and you're paying a couple of quid, through thick and thin is much easier than when every game costs a minimum £70 all-in.

It's not like ST holders have disappeared in droves simply because we're not winning 5-0 every weekend.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

I was so excited and happy about getting tickets for the Madrid home game on Friday. All that excitement and anticipation deflated the very next day.

Villa were not good. We handed them the game on a plate.

Chilwell was the best player on the pitch.

[ROTG]

On 20/03/2023 at 21:18, ROTG said:

This match is a tale of a two coaches taking over a teams during the season and how they have made an impact on the team performance.

£2m for a European winning coach Vs £20m for a PL Buffon. 
 

well done team TB, keep up the good work. 

[Blue Moon]

7 hours ago, kev61 said:

Quite simply if Potter was a conductor in an orchestra the piano player would play like les dawson.

Showing my age there😉

 

Good analogy.  Les Dawson was actually quite a good pianist, and only hammed it up for comedic effect. 

[Sleeping Dave]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

 

The midfield is a mess and has been for some time. That's not going to be rectified with the options on hand, nor a returning Kante. Irrespective of the double pivot combination we're asking either option to sacrifice their game for the other player, in the end it becomes unbalanced and too often sides get in behind to attack the defence with both midfielders caught the wrong side of the ball. Again, nothing unusual from what we've seen for some time now.

 

I think this is somewhat lazy. We’ve been talking  about the midfield for a long time but have essentially changed 50% of it. 

The players we have should have the potential to form a balanced midfield. Enzo and Kovacic are not the same. Kante very much different to them and so is Chukwuemeka and Gallagher. Enzo is a very clear upgrade on Jorginho and effectively not as limited. 

I think one of the biggest problems we have is that we chop and change all the time. We rarely play the same eleven two games in a row, let alone the same spine. It’s counter-productive and means we can never find that fluidity. 

We had a few attacks that looked promising, mostly because Havertz, Felix and Enzo has now played well together and often. Another huge issue is that our squad is way, way too big. 

I still think we lack a CM (Kovacic isn’t a first choice player ally this level), a striker and a goalkeeper that can read the game and command his area. Do that and get rid of a long list of deadwood and we are much closer to where we want to be. 

[Super Kenny Monkou]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I think this is somewhat lazy. We’ve been talking  about the midfield for a long time but have essentially changed 50% of it. 

The players we have should have the potential to form a balanced midfield. Enzo and Kovacic are not the same. Kante very much different to them and so is Chukwuemeka and Gallagher. Enzo is a very clear upgrade on Jorginho and effectively not as limited. 

I think one of the biggest problems we have is that we chop and change all the time. We rarely play the same eleven two games in a row, let alone the same spine. It’s counter-productive and means we can never find that fluidity. 

We had a few attacks that looked promising, mostly because Havertz, Felix and Enzo has now played well together and often. Another huge issue is that our squad is way, way too big. 

I still think we lack a CM (Kovacic isn’t a first choice player ally this level), a striker and a goalkeeper that can read the game and command his area. Do that and get rid of a long list of deadwood and we are much closer to where we want to be. 

There is a lot of deadwood!

[Super Kenny Monkou]

3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

The emboldened text ... So what? Any support of any club that is even partly founded on caring/worrying about what supporters of other clubs think is on pretty shaky ground to start with. I don't consider myself in competition with anyone else about how much I support my club, because I just don't care about how much other people support theirs. It's irrelevant to me. Besides, you'd have to be on another planet to think what @east lower describes doesn't happen absolutely everywhere. I know a Man Utd ST holder who was describing the same thing earlier this season, worked with a Liverpool supporter who described the same thing happening under Hodgson, Arsenal fans used to just not turn up because at that time they had no selling-on system. 

Not going is pretty much the only "power" (and it is hardly even that) ST holders have in making their views clear. And the reality is the cost makes this a big issue. If it's the 70s/80s and you're paying a couple of quid, through thick and thin is much easier than when every game costs a minimum £70 all-in.

It's not like ST holders have disappeared in droves simply because we're not winning 5-0 every weekend.

Interesting debate this and Arsenal’s former system is relevant.

I do know people with season tickets who pick and choose games and then sell the vast majority on.

Maybe a reduction in season tickets sold is the answer or restrict the passing on of tickets but is that achievable?

I never bother to even try and get a ticket now as it seems a forlorn exercise.

[xceleryx]

15 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I think this is somewhat lazy. We’ve been talking  about the midfield for a long time but have essentially changed 50% of it. 

The players we have should have the potential to form a balanced midfield. Enzo and Kovacic are not the same. Kante very much different to them and so is Chukwuemeka and Gallagher. Enzo is a very clear upgrade on Jorginho and effectively not as limited. 

I think one of the biggest problems we have is that we chop and change all the time. We rarely play the same eleven two games in a row, let alone the same spine. It’s counter-productive and means we can never find that fluidity. 

We had a few attacks that looked promising, mostly because Havertz, Felix and Enzo has now played well together and often. Another huge issue is that our squad is way, way too big. 

I still think we lack a CM (Kovacic isn’t a first choice player ally this level), a striker and a goalkeeper that can read the game and command his area. Do that and get rid of a long list of deadwood and we are much closer to where we want to be. 

I agree it was lazy, but that's largely because it was just a quick breakdown of the midfield. I've addressed some of its issue in wider detail in the squad status thread a week or two back.

Taking a more in-depth look at the situation still presents a lot of the same issues of years gone by, irrespective of whether or not Enzo is an upgrade on Jorginho. 

• Enzo gives us creativity, technical quality, vision and a wider scope of passing range than any other we've had since Fabregas. Defensively he's quite reasonable also, but it's not his primary strength nor the side of the ball his role should be focused around. Right now we're probably maximising about 50% of his capabilities, and that's being generous. This is largely because he's having to sacrifice his game to be that defensive option, whether that's in a midfield two or three. He needs to be playing with far more freedom and presence in the attacking third - we just can't afford that right now because of inadequate suitable partners.
• Kovacic is a fairly rounded player but doesn't particularly excel in either direction. He's excellent at what he does and I think quite under appreciated by many at times, but he's not the player that's going to thrive in a pivot either where he's also having to curb his game at times whenever Enzo does get the freedom to advance higher. I see him as the ideal third CM in a midfield trio, someone that does a bit of everything and adds balance between the holding midfielder and the more attacking #8 type. 
• Kante is a problem, I've said this before. It isn't because he's a bad player, but he's a fairly cumbersome fit tactically and with the direction we really need to move in with Enzo being a driving force. Can't maximise him in a pivot unless his partner sits and holds, fits best in a midfield three in a similar role to Kovacic, however he's far more technically stunted and an issue when it comes to having important possession in the attacking third. He works best when he's got freedom to roam about and win the ball high up the pitch.
• Then we have Mount, may not be here next season but under the assumption he is then there's no real midfield role for him unless he plays that #8 role in a midfield trio. That would have Enzo as the second CM and then proper holding player in behind - this keeps Kante and Kova on the bench. 
• Gallagher fits sort of in between a Kovacic and Kante. Technically limited but has the energy and endeavour of Kante, but is tactically naive and really works best with ample freedom to be a nuance. Can't play a pivot, which again makes him a better fit in a midfield trio as that #8 type. Probably not good enough to command a regular starting role, but can be useful in certain circumstances. 
• Chukwuemeka is still quite raw and is probably a couple years away from being in real contention should he develop. Has some nice traits, but again isn't suitable for a double pivot and suits a midfield trio more as a more attacking option. Looks more of a ball-carrier/runner type than a on ball creative. 

So once you gander at our midfield options there's a clear pattern on hand. We've got a massive shortage of creativity, technical quality, passing, vision and guile on the ball. Off the ball there's no real true defensive option on hand that has the tactical discipline and defensive attributes to anchor a midfield on their own. What we do have is quite a lot of cross-over between ball-winners and carriers - those that like to break lines. 

There's not a lot of combinations that can be formed out of our options that provide genuine cohesion and balance of skillsets while simultaneously filling the necessary roles as of them. You would have to think a proper holding player is a must get in the summer, that would help us tenfold across the board. It would unlock Enzo more in a double pivot, and if we were to be without Enzo at any point be able to make better use of a Kante or Kovacic in the role as we can let them play more naturally with protection behind.  Similarly we'd reap the benefits in a midfield three. Truthfully, we probably need two holding players coming in. This gives us a genuine backup to retain continuity, opposed to what we have no where every change we make requires adjusting other areas to negate deficiencies. 

First though we need to decide on how we want to play and what we're demanding from the positions in question. That way we can then go out and actually target the players with the required attributes to play in the manner desired, therefore creating balance and cohesion. 

I could go on further as this has a knock-on effect higher up the pitch with respects to our attacking midfield options and so on, what formations we're limited with, and so on. But I'm sure you get the drift already. 

For me the ideal bare minimum midfield group would look a little like so; 

Holding Midfielder, Backup Holding Midfielder, Enzo, Creative backup for Enzo, Kovacic, Attack minded CM.

This gives us the ability to play a double pivot in a couple of ways, we can play a midfield three and have balance, and we've got actual depth where we can make more seamless changes when needed without disrupting thing as much as we do now. 

[boratsbrother]

8 hours ago, kev61 said:

Oh come on!.the days of the flat cap and ten woodwind are gone when it comes to supporters.

You expect supporters to follow this array of millionaires and a PE teacher?

 

Newcastle haven't won a sausage since the Beatles were in their pomp, yet they fill their ground every game. West Ham haven't won anything for nearly 50 years yet they fill a 60,000 stadium. That is long-standing suffering and loyal support for you right there! 

There are many good reasons for not going to a game - Can't get time off work. On holiday. I'll health. Family reasons. Special social occassion. Can't afford the price of the tickets. Even just feeling a bit tierd and down and not up to going out that day. Not going because the team is playing crap is never a good enough excuse imho.

Edited April 2, 2023 by boratsbrother

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, kev61 said:

ten woodwind

It’s woodbine and they were for norvern monkeys. 
Embassy, rothmans, B&H or No 6 if you brought a single for us southern softies. 
 

I’lol get my coat. 

[Blue Moon]

10 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Newcastle haven't won a sausage since the Beatles were in their pomp, yet they fill their ground every game. West Ham haven't won anything for nearly 50 years yet they fill a 60,000 stadium. That is long-standing suffering and loyal support for you right there! 

There are many good reasons for not going to a game - Can't get time off work. On holiday. I'll health. Family reasons. Special social occassion. Can't afford the price of the tickets. Even just feeling a bit tierd and down and not up to going out that day. Not going because the team is playing crap is never a good enough excuse imho.

Those were in the days when you supported a local team, and few moved out of the locality. The times they have a-changed, and a walk to the ground via the pub is now a day’s excursion for those of us whose work moved them away from town in their youth, and creaky knees, decreased income and deep sighs from ‘er indoors must be considered.