Chelsea 1 Newcastle United 1 (Chelsea win 4-2 on penalties)

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

No. Lose the next 3 games and win this. The cups are our only path into Europe. 

I don't know. We're only 7 points behind Newcastle in 6th. 

If we win the next 3 league games, I expect we wont be all that far from those European spots. And I believe 7th is also Europe? 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

17 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I don't know. We're only 7 points behind Newcastle in 6th. 

If we win the next 3 league games, I expect we wont be all that far from those European spots. And I believe 7th is also Europe? 

7th is only Europe if each Cup is won by a team that finishes 6th or above.

The distribution is as follows:

1st-4th: CL
5th: EL
FA Cup or 6th: EL
League Cup or 7th: ECL

I'm trying to determine whether or not England getting a 5th CL spot this season, would mean every other European position gets knocked down one in the allocation, or whether we lose a place in this scenario.

Because if we gain a place, that would mean 8th would be get Conference League in the event the League Cup Winner is a Top 7 finisher.  Then the question is how far could this go? In this scenario, if West Ham or Brighton win the EL and finish 10th or below, would that extend a European place to 9th?

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by CarefreeMuratcan

[asvaberg]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Poch would want to win a cup as it looks good for his CV  , personally I'd rather we won the next three league games and got a bit of momentum going 

I'm for a Winnie the Pooh when he was asked: - "Honey or condensed milk with your bread?"

 - "Both"

(In the Norwegian translation it's a bit more polite answer, "Yes, please, both"

[CarefreeMuratcan]

24 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

I'm trying to determine whether or not England getting a 5th CL spot this season, would mean every other European position gets knocked down one in the allocation, or whether we lose a place in this scenario.

Because if we gain a place, that would mean 8th would be get Conference League in the event the League Cup Winner is a Top 7 finisher.  Then the question is how far could this go? In this scenario, if West Ham or Brighton win the EL and finish 10th or below, would that extend a European place to 9th?

 

Based on information I have found from before the Conference League existed, then under these scenarios, European Qualification would extend to 9th place. (Maximum of 5 teams into CL and maximum of 4 teams into EL).

But under the new regulations I think they are allowing a maximum of 7 teams from one country into the CL, so it could under these scenarios stretch down to the bottom half of the table even.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Nkunku off the bench for 30 mins would be lovely to see as well, ideally with us ahead and comfortable, rather than bringing him on in the hope he can work miracles in another game that's got away from us!

I was having a debate  around this subject with @CarefreeMuratcan at the game on Saturday - In so much as,  is it better to start the game with a player that's been out for a while or better to bring them on within the game itself e.g. off the bench for 20-30mins?

The scenario being that starting the game means you've done a full pre-game warm-up session and you're still warm, coming-off the bench into a game means you've got to immediately pick up the pace/tempo of a game you've had no part in, whereas if you start the game then the pace/tempo is being created as it develops and you're developing with it. So maybe doing the first 45mins is the better option?  Albeit not the way that conventional wisdom seems to operate.

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

If offered the opportunity, would you sacrifice tonight to win the next 3 league games ?

Si, hermano 💯✅

[CarefreeMuratcan]

2 minutes ago, east lower said:

I was having a debate  around this subject with @CarefreeMuratcan at the game on Saturday - In so much as,  is it better to start the game with a player that's been out for a while or better to bring them on within the game itself e.g. off the bench for 20-30mins?

The scenario being that starting the game means you've done a full pre-game warm-up session and you're still warm, coming-off the bench into a game means you've got to immediately pick up the pace/tempo of a game you've had no part in, whereas if you start the game then the pace/tempo is being created as it develops and you're developing with it. So maybe doing the first 45mins is the better option?  Albeit not the way that conventional wisdom seems to operate.

I'm definitely in the "start them from kick off" camp on this.

Too many times we have seen players thrown into the last 20 minutes and that's adding extra pressure to them on top of the pressure they have anyway.

It's not even only with injured players. Giroud used to get the short end of this stick. Wasn't our starting striker (when he should have been over the other options) and he would be thrown on as a sub at the end of games, go on rescue us, he wouldn't be able to show himself properly and so that justifies him not being a starter, and the cycle continues.

 

[Mark Kelly]

Start them and when ( it's us so...) you're five nil up rest them. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Start them and when ( it's us so...) you're five nil up rest them. 

We never seem to do that which is imo stupid.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

29 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Based on information I have found from before the Conference League existed, then under these scenarios, European Qualification would extend to 9th place. (Maximum of 5 teams into CL and maximum of 4 teams into EL).

But under the new regulations I think they are allowing a maximum of 7 teams from one country into the CL, so it could under these scenarios stretch down to the bottom half of the table even.

Ok I have found the information now:

"the answer is given by the UEFA circular no 36, sent to each FA on 10th July: “One additional league phase spot each will be reserved for the two associations whose affiliated clubs have the best collective performance in the previous season in the UEFA club competitions (in accordance with the associations’ club coefficient for the season). This spot (“European Performance Spot”) will be allocated to the club best ranked in their domestic league behind the clubs that have qualified directly for the UCL league phase positions. The additional spot will not reduce the number of clubs in UEL and UECL, so these two associations will be entitled to one team more each in their overall UEFA club competitions quota.”

So this confirms, that if England gets a 5th CL spot this season, the European positions all get moved down one. In this scenario, if both cup holders finish in European positions, then 8th would get Conference League.

What we have no confirmation on is in this scenario, if Brighton or West Ham finish 6th-8th and  win the EL (so qualify for the CL), would this extend the Conference League position to 9th.

And if the maximum scenario occurs, England gets a 5th spot, CL winner, EL winner and Conference winner are from England and all finish 6th-8th, then  would that in theory possibly mean Conference League Position for 11th? (7 CL teams, 3 EL teams, 1 Conference League team).

Edited December 19, 2023 by CarefreeMuratcan

[Proud-Blue]

I'm watching this tonight in a pub in Newcastle surrounded by Geordies. 

I'd really appreciate if we could just, for once, not embarrass ourselves against them!

[CarefreeMuratcan]

2 minutes ago, Proud-Blue said:

I'm watching this tonight in a pub in Newcastle surrounded by Geordies. 

I'd really appreciate if we could just, for once, not embarrass ourselves against them!

At home we are ok against them I think. I wouldn't give us a chance in hell if it was at St James Park.

[My Blood Is Blue]

27 minutes ago, east lower said:

I was having a debate  around this subject with @CarefreeMuratcan at the game on Saturday - In so much as,  is it better to start the game with a player that's been out for a while or better to bring them on within the game itself e.g. off the bench for 20-30mins?

The scenario being that starting the game means you've done a full pre-game warm-up session and you're still warm, coming-off the bench into a game means you've got to immediately pick up the pace/tempo of a game you've had no part in, whereas if you start the game then the pace/tempo is being created as it develops and you're developing with it. So maybe doing the first 45mins is the better option?  Albeit not the way that conventional wisdom seems to operate.

Yeah, this is an interesting point actually, although I guess the flip side of it is that the last 30 has, in theory, a lot less intensity than the first 30, when everyone is fresh and raring to go at kick-off. 

[east lower]

4 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Yeah, this is an interesting point actually, although I guess the flip side of it is that the last 30 has, in theory, a lot less intensity than the first 30, when everyone is fresh and raring to go at kick-off. 

Situational, we could be cruising and then coming on is OK, or the flip side of the coin is we're chasing the game and the intensity is 100% from the get-go.

Safer bet for the player and their well-being (for me) is get them on from  the start.

[Sciatika]

As it's only the QF, there is no extra time - the game goes straight to pens.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

50 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

As it's only the QF, there is no extra time - the game goes straight to pens.

Ah I had forgotten about that. I'd take pens right now. 😅

[jasonb]

Newcastle are now out of Europe with only the domestic cups left, this could be a cracker of a game as neither club wants to go out early.

[Lump Of Celery]

Think we need to  start getting Maatsen some minutes at LB, with Cucu and Chilwell both now long term absentees. Also playing all of our CB's across the back 4 doesn't allow for any resting or rotation bbetween them. Hoping he can get at least 30minutes at LB in this game

Also - don't know if anyone saw from Howe's press conference, but apparently Hall's permanent move to Newcastle is dependent on certain performance based criteria being met. Howe didn't seem so sure that he was on course to meet those

[DannyLB]

1 minute ago, Lump Of Celery said:

 

Also - don't know if anyone saw from Howe's press conference, but apparently Hall's permanent move to Newcastle is dependent on certain performance based criteria being met. Howe didn't seem so sure that he was on course to meet those

Yup. Largely why I believe his minutes are otherwise so limited. I’m convinced they still want him just not at whatever contingent price. 

[Bison]

4 minutes ago, Lump Of Celery said:

Think we need to  start getting Maatsen some minutes at LB, with Cucu and Chilwell both now long term absentees. Also playing all of our CB's across the back 4 doesn't allow for any resting or rotation bbetween them. Hoping he can get at least 30minutes at LB in this game

Also - don't know if anyone saw from Howe's press conference, but apparently Hall's permanent move to Newcastle is dependent on certain performance based criteria being met. Howe didn't seem so sure that he was on course to meet those

I read something yesterday (probably nonsense) but it said Newcastle are obligated to by Hall if they finish above where Chelsea finished last season.

[chara]

6 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

If offered the opportunity, would you sacrifice tonight to win the next 3 league games ?

Absolutely...even thinking about Europe for next season is lunacy..lambs to the slaughter...9 points in the bag gives some wriggle room and hopefully a less stressful New Year.

 

6 hours ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

No. Lose the next 3 games and win this. The cups are our only path into Europe. 

See above...I do, and always have, enjoyed your optimism CarefreeM ..reminds me of my younger self....BUT some of us somewhat older members can remember the pain of relegation and the struggles to regain top tier status. To be free of that Damocles item would help my (Football/Chelsea) stress factor come down

With points plus injury issues easing (won't hold my breath!) just perhaps The Poch might be able to show us some progress however small but encouraging,,,to beat Newcastle only to throw away points would drag us all down far too much..imho.

[paulw66]

47 minutes ago, Bison said:

I read something yesterday (probably nonsense) but it said Newcastle are obligated to by Hall if they finish above where Chelsea finished last season.

I have read it is based on league position (one they are guaranteed to get) rather than performances by the player.

he has been subbed at HT in all 3 league starts, which suggests Howe doesn't rate him

[Lump Of Celery]

2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I have read it is based on league position (one they are guaranteed to get) rather than performances by the player.

he has been subbed at HT in all 3 league starts, which suggests Howe doesn't rate him

Ah ok, never heard of a league position clause before, seems they dodged that question.

Yes he hasn't set the world alight there. Howe gave some glowing praise, but also mentioned his defending isn't good enough. I also saw the stat about being subbed at half time

[Blue Moon]

3 hours ago, Proud-Blue said:

I'm watching this tonight in a pub in Newcastle surrounded by Geordies. 

I'd really appreciate if we could just, for once, not embarrass ourselves against them!

Did that in a Tottenham Court Road pub, turned out to be a Georgie pub. Disgraced myself when the first goal went in, and thought it best to leave.

You can always hope that they'll turn out to be closet Black Cats, Smoggies or Monkeyhangers.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

22 minutes ago, chara said:

With points plus injury issues easing (won't hold my breath!) just perhaps The Poch might be able to show us some progress however small but encouraging,,,to beat Newcastle only to throw away points would drag us all down far too much..imho.

I appreciate and respect this, having not experienced that era I can't see the forest for the trophies!

My radical idea would be a Cup win should make a team immune from relegation (and also somehow feed into CL qualification).

We'll see how many teams rest players for cup games then!