Chelsea 1 Fulham 0

[east lower]

2 hours ago, Blue Moon said:

Doesn’t quite say that, but I agree - it’s the best guess. Bloody Americans - always a thousand words where two will do.

The more they get to interact with us, the worse I think of them.

They're starting to make a pigs-ear out of quite a lot.

They're not at Hicks & Gillett's level of incompetence, but they're trying..................... 

[Blue Moon]

11 minutes ago, east lower said:

The more they get to interact with us, the worse I think of them.

They're starting to make a pigs-ear out of quite a lot.

They're not at Hicks & Gillett's level of incompetence, but they're trying..................... 

Agreed. They trying, very trying (to quote my old history teacher).

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Yes, also, how you win it. A defender randomly sticking his arm up and doing a stupid handball has the same metric awarded to a player going clean through, rounding the GK and getting brought down. One is pure fortune, and one is a proper goal scoring chance created 

surely that is correct. shots from identical positions, in identical situations should have the same Xg, otherwise what is it?

Overall we had something close to a 3-1 Xg position in the Palace, which suggests we merited the victory either way.

I think the Xg from a penalty is actually about 0.75 btw. 

Sure - there are times where xg is not perfect, just a lot more consistent that the alternatives.
On Palace Understat has 2.75-0.96
and yes 0.76 for the pen.

But I have never claimed we were not the better team, just that the penalty and the timing of it were a slice of luck.

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, Siidi said:

We could be worse; with that I agree. But apart from some decent results against some lowly teams, I really don't see the improvement in our game at all.

I have seen managers tweak their teams to affect the game (Wigan against us, for example) and the impact was immediate. I have also seen other teams come out in the second half with a different game plan that took us out the game. I have seen none of that from Pochettino, not when we're clinging on.

I once watched his PSG team in a major CL match, ( I think it was his last CL match for them as they got beat) and I remember thinking, surely, the manager must change something. His team is underperforming relative to the talent they have. It never happened for 90 min. This is the manager we have. 

It's a little disingenuous to more or less exclaim decent results have only come against lowly teams when some of our better performances this season have come against sides above us on the table. There's certainly been improvement, it of course may not be quite to the degree we'd all ideally have liked to see, but in comparison to last season it's certainly been there. 

I agree to an extent that Poch hasn't necessarily made decisive tactical moves that've transformed games, and more could be had in this area moving. It's also situational to a degree, considering our real issues in this area tend to rise coming out of the HT break and struggling to find our rhythm again. Some of it is likely coaching, some of it will also be down to the nature of our squad and its inexperience, and sometimes you also need to chalk down as the opposition coming out and doing more. 

Yeah, but in fairness you could say that about every manager to an extent. There were occasions where Mourinho would persist wth things as they were, same with Carlo, and more recently Tuchel. Coaches are also going to try and put faith in their process and their players by trusting their talent. Pep does this, as does Klopp. It's not necessarily a negative trait entirely. Granted, Poch isn't of that calibre overall.

[ROTG]

11 hours ago, xceleryx said:

That's nice. Again, nothing to do with the point being discussed at the time.

One hundred percent to do with your original point. If was not for miss management from above the club would not be it's current position which is something you fail to grasp. 

One can only assume the team now have the identity you have craved for over the past few seasons? 

[Dwmh]

14 minutes ago, ROTG said:

If was not for miss management from above

I think you mean mis-management.  At least I hope you do.

[xceleryx]

27 minutes ago, ROTG said:

One hundred percent to do with your original point. If was not for miss management from above the club would not be it's current position which is something you fail to grasp. 

One can only assume the team now have the identity you have craved for over the past few seasons? 

Again, none of which has any relevance between the direct comparison made between Emery at Villa and Poch here. 

I know it's a challenge for you to address actual points of discussion directly,  but I believe in you. Never give up. 

[kev61]

On 14/01/2024 at 13:41, boratsbrother said:

What's  more important is whether or not there's been progress this season and the answer to that is a definite yes!

 

 

 

You would certainly have to expect an improvement with money spent, or is that not a consideration?.

When you spend the amount we have I would expect us to be challenging in the top four.

If we spent nothing and brought in a new manager I would expect what we are doing now.Poch is doing nothing that I can see that gives me any confidence that we are going in the right direction.

If i spent a huge amount of money on a Ferrari I would expect it to perform better than a Nissan.

Edited January 16 by kev61

[ROTG]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Again, none of which has any relevance between the direct comparison made between Emery at Villa and Poch here. 

I know it's a challenge for you to address actual points of discussion directly,  but I believe in you. Never give up. 

Of course there i comparison which you fail to grasp - The problem stems from TT removal and his replacement, had the management hired a Emery or Poch level coach at the time, then the club would not be in its current poor league position nor would it have spent 1/2b on very average players.

Please continue with your TOCWS blinkered view

[ROTG]

6 hours ago, Dwmh said:

I think you mean mis-management.  At least I hope you do.

being bounced along a track in the dark at 05:00 in a Chinese built minibus, is probably not the best time to respond on a phone 😀

[xceleryx]

41 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Of course there i comparison which you fail to grasp - The problem stems from TT removal and his replacement, had the management hired a Emery or Poch level coach at the time, then the club would not be in its current poor league position nor would it have spent 1/2b on very average players.

Please continue with your TOCWS blinkered view

I'm not failing to grasp anything my flock directing friend. I am entirely understanding of what you're saying, don't necessarily disagree  with some of it to an extent, but again (yeah, I know), none of it retains any relevance when comparing Emery's Villa to Poch's Chelsea. 

What you're trying to argue is the equivalent of me saying if Villa didn't appoint Gerrard they wouldn't have likely appointed a manager of Emery's calibre, and therefore would unlikely be performing as they currently are. Again, no relevance to Poch and his tenure here to date.

Now, don't you have background checks to do on our potential targets to make sure there's that dearly sort after Brighton correct you obsess over? 

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

You would certainly have to expect an improvement with money spent, or is that not a consideration?.

When you spend the amount we have I would expect us to be challenging in the top four.

If we spent nothing and brought in a new manager I would expect what we are doing now.Poch is doing nothing that I can see that gives me any confidence that we are going in the right direction.

If i spent a huge amount of money on a Ferrari I would expect it to perform better than a Nissan.

I would agree with you if the money was spent on experienced high quality players who'd proved themselves in the Premiership. But you and everyone on here knows that it wasn't.  You also know this is a long-term plan which is going to take time to start working the way we all want it too. 

Even with such huge room for improvement we are 2  points ahead of Newcastle, 1 point behind Utd and only 3 points from 6th place and one game away from a cup final. 

Sorry, to say this but there is an unhealthy sense of entitlement amongst too many Chelsea fans which might explain the awful lack of support at home games.  Playing in front of silent fans  can't be doing our young team any good at all. 😟

 

[chiswickblue]

It's amazing how our "good" moments generally coincide with us playing poor teams, and our "bad" moments coincide with playing good teams. Is the team really improving or are the opponents different?

[Rob B]

4 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

It's amazing how our "good" moments generally coincide with us playing poor teams, and our "bad" moments coincide with playing good teams. Is the team really improving or are the opponents different?

Not sure on this.

I haven’t analysed this properly but was only thinking recently that we have done well against teams at both end of the table.

For example, good performances against Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs (albeit lots of draws, some unlucky not to win) and good results against Sheff Utd, Burnley, Luton etc as you’d expect.

Where we’ve fallen foul are the mid clubs such as Bournemouth, Wolves, Forest, Brentford and Everton (who would be mid-table were it not for a points deduction)

Feels to me like we are too talented not to win against the Championship sides and will get ourselves motivated for the big teams (who’s style probably suits as as they don’t park the bus),  but the established PL teams with a bit of quality but will be dogged, physical  and defend well,  is where we are coming unstuck. 

Edited January 16 by Rob B

[Siidi]

On 16/01/2024 at 00:23, xceleryx said:

It's a little disingenuous to more or less exclaim decent results have only come against lowly teams when some of our better performances this season have come against sides above us on the table. There's certainly been improvement, it of course may not be quite to the degree we'd all ideally have liked to see, but in comparison to last season it's certainly been there. 

I agree to an extent that Poch hasn't necessarily made decisive tactical moves that've transformed games, and more could be had in this area moving. It's also situational to a degree, considering our real issues in this area tend to rise coming out of the HT break and struggling to find our rhythm again. Some of it is likely coaching, some of it will also be down to the nature of our squad and its inexperience, and sometimes you also need to chalk down as the opposition coming out and doing more. 

Yeah, but in fairness you could say that about every manager to an extent. There were occasions where Mourinho would persist wth things as they were, same with Carlo, and more recently Tuchel. Coaches are also going to try and put faith in their process and their players by trusting their talent. Pep does this, as does Klopp. It's not necessarily a negative trait entirely. Granted, Poch isn't of that calibre overall.

Every manager has that moment or match when they freeze just when their team needed them to makes changes, and instead become a spectator of their defeat. For Poch, they are not just "bad moments" but his entire modus operandi. Either he believes he has set his team up to deal with every situation (no proof of that so far) or he simply doesn't know how to react when the game changes for his team. I think it's the latter.

Don't get me wrong; I think Poch can get better than what we've seen so far  But, but, even when he gets to his very best (and we can wait another two seasons for that at the current rate) he will not be good enough for Chelsea. This is my conclusion, and I suspect the conclusion Spurs reached.

I can see Poch grabbing one trophy in 3 seasons with a bit of luck. But the robustness, attention to details, the ability to turn a defeat into victory, to get over the line no matter what, ... , all that stuff you need to win the league and big trophies, I really don't think Poch has enough of it. 

[paulw66]

19 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

It's amazing how our "good" moments generally coincide with us playing poor teams, and our "bad" moments coincide with playing good teams. Is the team really improving or are the opponents different?

Sure, but earlier on in the season we lost at home to Forest and Brentford. We have recently beaten teams of that level. 

We also got good results against Arsenal, City and Spurs. 

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Sure, but earlier on in the season we lost at home to Forest and Brentford. We have recently beaten teams of that level. 

and lost to Middlesborough.  I wouldn't get excited now - espcecially with the 6 games coming up all being much tougher and including the top 3.

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

We also got good results against Arsenal, City and Spurs. 

Spoken like the fan of a 50-60 point team.  3 points in 3 games is a morale boost, but not a big step towards being top 4.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

 I wouldn't get excited now -

Who is. It's still better beating Fulham, Sheffield United and Palace than it is losing to Forest and Brentford 

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Spoken like the fan of a 50-60 point team.  3 points in 3 games is a morale boost, but not a big step towards being top 4.

No, but it's better than losing those 3 games, which we did last year. 

[Dwmh]

21 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Who is. It's still better beating Fulham, Sheffield United and Palace than it is losing to Forest and Brentford 

losing to Middlesborough was worse.  Being out played by Luton wasn't good either.

22 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

No, but it's better than losing those 3 games, which we did last year. 

The trouble is that those 3 morale boosting but points low draws were eaerlier in the season when we were losing to Forest and Brentford.  The big question is if we can face up to the big clubs again now - we don't know.
But will find out pretty soon,

Time for some expectations management,

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Dwmh said:

 Being out played by Luton wasn't good either.

 

Going three nil up and taking your foot off the pedal after 75 minutes  isn't "being outplayed" if anything it's being naive which comes from being a young squad with a cowardly manager . 

[Dwmh]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Going three nil up and taking your foot off the pedal after 75 minutes  isn't "being outplayed" if anything it's being naive which comes from being a young squad with a cowardly manager . 

On chances on possession on everything except incredible finishing we were poor and out played.
It was a poor performance.  

Now if you believe the sudden turnaround can be maintained and was not a one off, that would be fantastic news.  Not seen it since.

In anycase does anyone really want to talk this team up when we have the top 3 to play in 6 games?  And an anything les than 4-0 win is bad  game againt Middlesborough first?
Expectations management starts here.  It could be a rough ride.

[Mark Kelly]

15 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

  And an anything les than 4-0 win is bad  game againt Middlesborough first?
.

You'd best talk to Villa about that then seeing as they're higher in the league that we are and they only managed a 1-0 wing against Boro the week before we lost to them

[Dwmh]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

You'd best talk to Villa about that then seeing as they're higher in the league that we are and they only managed a 1-0 wing against Boro the week before we lost to them

I should think they are rather embarrassed about that.  I doubt anyone thought it was a game to be proud of.
Especially as they put out a strong team much like we did.
Still they did still win, and away from home.  If they failed to score the late goal it would have been a home replay.
The pressure on us is much greater.
Funny enough we have Villa in the cup - feeling confident?

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Dwmh said:

I should think they are rather embarrassed about that.  I doubt anyone thought it was a game to be proud of.
Especially as they put out a strong team much like we did.
Still they did still win, and away from home.  If they failed to score the late goal it would have been a home replay.
The pressure on us is much greater.
Funny enough we have Villa in the cup - feeling confident?

 

Well no , but as I have been saying for months , with this coach in charge I'm not confident of winning the coin toss let alone any football matches. 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Well no , but as I have been saying for months , with this coach in charge I'm not confident of winning the coin toss let alone any football matches. 

With this number of players, with this coach, with this board, with these 8 year contracts, with the threat of the Creamcakes realising that a 10 year project doesn't work for them, with the continuous negative atmosphere that is at the club most of the time (and will return rapidly next time we lose 2 games in a row), with our scouts, with our inability to retain good players, with our medical track record which shows no sign of changing, with our reduced ability to spend for the next 7 years...

... with this manager and with our inability to hire a better one.

You can add the refs if you choose.

PL football is a game of short ladders and long snakes.

Top right and you can see the rare Tyranasaurus @xceleryx
a rare creature with the head and body of a snake which miraculously turn around into a ladder to the top.

Edited January 17 by Dwmh