Chelsea 1 Fulham 0

[CarefreeMuratcan]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

100%.

A Spurs loss is far more beneficial to us than United loosing. To be only 7 points behind them, in 5th place,  after 21 games is mind boggling.

Plus it's them and I hate them with a passion.

Oh wow I thought we were miles behind Spurs. In that case I change my mind and want United to lose too. 

[McCreadie]

41 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

And got thrashed in that one.  Possession, chances, 50/50s everything except finishing.
What is the problem with admitting it?

No problem as such, It just  didn’t happen.

[martin1905]

22 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Not really how i see it.
Yes Gallagher was 8 going on 10 today with Palmer as RW (with scope).
But Enzo was also pushing up.  Both Enzo and Gallagher were often seen out wide replacing a nominal winger who had moved inside.
Caicedo sat in a way Enzot didn't.  They swapped it around of course but for me it was more a V and single pivot than double pivot.

As for Enzo being better deeper - well so is Gallagher. We seem to have 5 players (including Big Les and Lavia -if I have understood him right) that want to play at 6.  Personally I am wondering if we shouldn't be giving Caicedo a longer leash to play box to box rather than sit.

Gallagher should be CM, just as Mount always should have been IMO IMO.  I know that struggling managers always want to play their best presser at AM but it just screams that we are out of form.

It mostly looks 4231 to me.  Main issue is that only Broja wants to play the 1 (he seemed to get the hang of it today for once).
And the 4 isn't really a 4.  It is a 3 with a semi-advanced RWB and a LW offering cover instead of a LWB.  Defences never play just as the paper format (it has always been No. of  attackers +1 in defence) so I am quire relaxed about the back 3/4/5.  Indeed it is the one thing that Poch seems to have sorted out better than other recent managers.

If so that is hugely depressing.  This was our best game of the run of 9 against 6 weak clubs, a weakened Newcastle LC team and 2 Championship teams.
It was definitely progress.  Personally I was very please with the progress.  But it wasn't good.  Stay at this level and we are back to 12th soon.

 

That was a good set of 11 players.  Then there was Mudryk on the bench (no mins?  fit?) and Chilwell. 
Not a bad 11.  Not a good 20 squad and an even worse squad of 25 for the rest of the season.  Even if everyone was suddenly fit most of our best 20 players would be very young or very unproven in the prem or both.

I'd like to blame Poch, but when I look at the squad, age and experience, it looks like someone does not want us to succeed.

There has been a lot of fan mood swings recently.  Player swings too, but most of us are not 22 or younger.
The positive reaction to Luton was daft IMO - but so was the negative reaction to Middlesborough (who have to hang on for 90 or 120 mins at the Bridge - they won't be looking forward to that).
Now it is all up again.  Nothing has changed, we went from a 44 pont team to a 54 point team.  No more than that.
We beat 1 team (villa away) in the top 10 last season.  We have beaten 2 so far this season (9 man spurs and Brighton)
We are a 54 point team now  (on course for 56 but havng played Fulham and Luton twice).

And lets not get into the dark issues that will occur when some of our current lot want to move on.

The differences in formations are very subtle, which I'm sure you are aware. I don't think there is any doubt that Enzo played deeper today with Gallagher further forward. Of course they move and both do a bit of everything so yes Enzo got forward and out wide at times but it was noticeably different today.

I'm not suggesting today was anything other than what it was. It was OK but the important parts for me was we finally saw a pivot of Enzo and Caicedo and we looked far more structured than normal, which is what gives me hope. I think we have some real quality players that too often have been misused. Today, if nothing else was a start.

It's funny that you say today was more of a V  yet mostly this season it has looked, to you,  more like a 4231 whereas I see it the complete opposite. 

[martin1905]

29 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Oh wow I thought we were miles behind Spurs. In that case I change my mind and want United to lose too. 

It's actually 8 so i got that wrong but still my point remains.

[Dwmh]

15 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I don't think there is any doubt that Enzo played deeper today with Gallagher further forward.

Agreed. And I'd add that Connor probably had his least impactful game of the season (plenty of good things from others though)

8 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

It's funny that you say today was more of a V  yet mostly this season it has looked, to you,  more like a 4231 whereas I see it the complete opposite. 

I watch on telly so I am very positive about the bits I watch replays of, but not so confident about where a player has been positioned over 90 mins.  It feels like a pair to me, albeit it one where either player has some license to roam.
We are probably arguing over one and a quarter vs one and three quarter 6's.
Given that we have mostly had one FB who does not go forward (Colwill) and at other times played with 3 CBs, I am a bit surprised there is any need for a second 6 though.  

I have to admit though that I have wanted to see Connor and Mount play a 2 man CM for 3 or 4 years now, and always expected it to happen when they reached 23/24.  I found watching RLC there very painful.

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, Ham said:

It's called Argyle. 

About a spy cat apparently 🤷🏻‍♂️

Surprised the organisers didn't squeeze a rendition of cool for cats out of them. 

Off to get my coat

[Floyd25]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Sorry but has this already been discussed? WTF.

 

You can tell we have American owners, wouldn’t have happened before. Pretty distracting doing a silly routine whilst a game is going on,  just hope it’s a one off, but I’m sure if they had it their way they’d plaster the entire stadium in adverts. 

Edited January 14 by Floyd25

[kev61]

I didn't get to watch the game,but hells bells - Poch plays Chilwell again  as a winger!!.The guy just doesn't learn from past mistakes.

Chilwell is a nailed on full back that gets forward at every opportunity.This thing about managers putting square pegs in round holes does my nut in.

I'm all for trying players in different roles but Chilwell is a player that we NEED as a left back!.

[kev61]

The fact that over half the people here voted we would lose is very telling.

It says to me we have no confidence in the team and therefore no confidence in the manager - or is that skewed logic?

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

I didn't get to watch the game,but hells bells - Poch plays Chilwell again  as a winger!!.The guy just doesn't learn from past mistakes.

Chilwell is a nailed on full back that gets forward at every opportunity.This thing about managers putting square pegs in round holes does my nut in.

I'm all for trying players in different roles but Chilwell is a player that we NEED as a left back!.

And posts like these are why you shouldn't make comment on situations you lack context over. 

Chilwell coming on at LW wasn't that big of an issue, in fact you could argue it was a good move given the nature of the game at the time. Colwill was doing fine at LB, minus some silly fouls, and with Fulham trying to push for a goal having a wide player that was going to track back and provide more defensive cover than a traditional wide player like Sterling was a bonus. Plus it allowed us to retain height in the backline that would've been lost with a direct swap for Colwill, with Chilwell still capable of having an impact higher up the pitch.

Should it be a long term move, probably not. But I can also see it being a thing while we retain Thiago Silva in the side for tactical reasons discussed previously. 

In short, it's not actually that big of a deal.

[kev61]

10 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

And posts like these are why you shouldn't make comment on situations you lack context over. 

Dear dear xceleryx.Your over complicated nonsense knows no bounds.I will leave it there.

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

I didn't get to watch the game,but hells bells - Poch plays Chilwell again  as a winger!!.The guy just doesn't learn from past mistakes.

Chilwell is a nailed on full back that gets forward at every opportunity.This thing about managers putting square pegs in round holes does my nut in.

I'm all for trying players in different roles but Chilwell is a player that we NEED as a left back!.

Chillwell came on because panic mode had set in 2nd half with Fulham on the offensive. Resulting with us parking the bus and hanging on to a 1-0 lead against Fulham.

xceleryx war and piece free reply 😀

[Sciatika]

11 hours ago, Super Kenny Monkou said:

Indeed. The less money we spend on players the better they are!

Or the better "value" they are. I find it hard to tell which because I am (naturally) predisposed to rate the skills of those I least expect to deliver.

[Siidi]

9 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Not really how i see it.
Yes Gallagher was 8 going on 10 today with Palmer as RW (with scope).
But Enzo was also pushing up.  Both Enzo and Gallagher were often seen out wide replacing a nominal winger who had moved inside.
Caicedo sat in a way Enzot didn't.  They swapped it around of course but for me it was more a V and single pivot than double pivot.

As for Enzo being better deeper - well so is Gallagher. We seem to have 5 players (including Big Les and Lavia -if I have understood him right) that want to play at 6.  Personally I am wondering if we shouldn't be giving Caicedo a longer leash to play box to box rather than sit.

Gallagher should be CM, just as Mount always should have been IMO IMO.  I know that struggling managers always want to play their best presser at AM but it just screams that we are out of form.

It mostly looks 4231 to me.  Main issue is that only Broja wants to play the 1 (he seemed to get the hang of it today for once).
And the 4 isn't really a 4.  It is a 3 with a semi-advanced RWB and a LW offering cover instead of a LWB.  Defences never play just as the paper format (it has always been No. of  attackers +1 in defence) so I am quire relaxed about the back 3/4/5.  Indeed it is the one thing that Poch seems to have sorted out better than other recent managers.

If so that is hugely depressing.  This was our best game of the run of 9 against 6 weak clubs, a weakened Newcastle LC team and 2 Championship teams.
It was definitely progress.  Personally I was very please with the progress.  But it wasn't good.  Stay at this level and we are back to 12th soon.

 

That was a good set of 11 players.  Then there was Mudryk on the bench (no mins?  fit?) and Chilwell. 
Not a bad 11.  Not a good 20 squad and an even worse squad of 25 for the rest of the season.  Even if everyone was suddenly fit most of our best 20 players would be very young or very unproven in the prem or both.

I'd like to blame Poch, but when I look at the squad, age and experience, it looks like someone does not want us to succeed.

There has been a lot of fan mood swings recently.  Player swings too, but most of us are not 22 or younger.
The positive reaction to Luton was daft IMO - but so was the negative reaction to Middlesborough (who have to hang on for 90 or 120 mins at the Bridge - they won't be looking forward to that).
Now it is all up again.  Nothing has changed, we went from a 44 pont team to a 54 point team.  No more than that.
We beat 1 team (villa away) in the top 10 last season.  We have beaten 2 so far this season (9 man spurs and Brighton)
We are a 54 point team now  (on course for 56 but havng played Fulham and Luton twice).

And lets not get into the dark issues that will occur when some of our current lot want to move on.

Pochettino's weaknesses go beyond formations, tbf. He showed again that he has no idea how the midfield should respond to pressure.  To see a midfield with Gallagher,  Caicedo, and Enzo being ripped through at every attack was frighteningly poor. Every Fulham attack in the final 20 min ended in our 18 yd box or goal mouth. 

A basic tweak of compacting Enzo, Caicedo and Gallagher, and pulling back out FBs to tighten up the wings may have stemmed the flow, perhaps. If you set a defensive block in your midfield, you can win the ball, then use it as you please. How can we engage in end to end football when we're the ones defending a lead? Totally crazy.

But I get the feeling that Pochettino doesn't have it in him to tweak his team to deal with a situation. The now famous 2016 meltdown of his  Spurs team at the Bridge always come to my mind when I see Poch sit and watch horror unfolds around his team. The camera always shows him mumbling stuff to his assistants who look just as perplexed. More twitching than tweaking, I must say. 

[Bison]

@Dwmh regarding Caicedo, I would love to see him part of a double pivot but, as you say, with the freedom to play box to box.

It makes sense playing Caicedo deep at the moment because he's by far the best midfielder at receiving the ball from the defenders with his back to play/on the half-turn, making angles and playing out of pressure. 

I would love it if Ugochukwu could develop into a Mikel like player because with his size and athleticism, Caicedo and Ugo would be a formidable base. But based on what I've seen so far Ugo isn't great playing out of pressure, with his back to goal. Hopefully it's something he can develop.

[Holymoly]

16 hours ago, JaneB said:

 

 

With respect, a bit of an overreaction.  Frank is still a fan, always will be, and is allowed to go to games.  I love seeing him there.  

It might well mean nothing but I so agree with your first paragraph.  If Frank could just swallow his pride and realise he could still have a lot to contribute I'd be so happy 💙

 

I'd imagine Pochettino would have to be doing some swallowing of his pride too.

[Holymoly]

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

The fact that over half the people here voted we would lose is very telling.

It says to me we have no confidence in the team and therefore no confidence in the manager - or is that skewed logic?

I voted for a draw, and that was during the match when we were 1-0 up!

[east lower]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

I didn't get to watch the game,but hells bells - Poch plays Chilwell again  as a winger!!.The guy just doesn't learn from past mistakes.

Chilwell is a nailed on full back that gets forward at every opportunity.This thing about managers putting square pegs in round holes does my nut in.

I'm all for trying players in different roles but Chilwell is a player that we NEED as a left back!.

It’s because the coach doesn’t like the full-backs in his system (does he have any?) getting across the half-way line. 

He’s almost forced to let Gusto get forward because the left-back (whilst Colwill is fulfilling the role) is almost anchored inside our half.  Otherwise we’d have had width on one side of the pitch, offered by Sterling, and he’s most effective in the area just wide and around the corner of the penalty box.

[east lower]

Meant to add that Enzo was a little better yesterday. 

Problem is for me that the one thing that would make him a match changer is the one thing you cannot coach (assuming we had a coach who could do that) and that’s a yard or two more speed.

Watched MOTD this morning and they have a very valid point about our ‘press’ - it’s pretty much Gallagher on his todd when we press in the opposition half.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

The Gusto challenge was similar to his one against Villa wasn't it? So which decision was correct and which wrong? Makes no sense as usual. 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

It’s because the coach doesn’t like the full-backs in his system (does he have any?) getting across the half-way line. 

He’s almost forced to let Gusto get forward because the left-back (whilst Colwill is fulfilling the role) is almost anchored inside our half.  Otherwise we’d have had width on one side of the pitch, offered by Sterling, and he’s most effective in the area just wide and around the corner of the penalty box.

Actually the Colwill half LCB, half FB with Gusto almost a WB makes a lot of sense and is probably the one pattern of play that Poch has achieved.
@kev61 Chilwell came on at 77 mins and we decided to hang on to the goal lead.  Playing an extra FB in front of the FB in defensive mode has been going on ever since the introduction of the first No 12 shirt.

[east lower]

12 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Actually the Colwill half LCB, half FB with Gusto almost a WB makes a lot of sense and is probably the one pattern of play that Poch has achieved.
@kev61 Chilwell came on at 77 mins and we decided to hang on to the goal lead.  Playing an extra FB in front of the FB in defensive mode has been going on ever since the introduction of the first No 12 shirt.

Having been at the game, Chilwell spent as much time in their half as he did reinforcing the LB position. But better than Sterling at that defensive position, but that should be a given. He was almost an ‘out’ ball when we needed to relieve some of the pressure that the coach managed to present Fulham with by allowing us to sit deep.

The only time (generally) that Colwill gets beyond the halfway line is when he carries the ball with him and again that’s natural because he’s a centre-half. He had one of his better games at that left-back position yesterday and it is left-back not a hybrid role.

[Ham]

1 hour ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

The Gusto challenge was similar to his one against Villa wasn't it? So which decision was correct and which wrong? Makes no sense as usual. 

The Villa one was wrong. Again he connected with the ball but his foot bounced off the ball and connected at a similar height. 

I'm sure there's a correlation between the levels of interest shown by the commentators. Versus Villa they were calling for a red. Yesterday they weren't. 

[ROTG]

29 minutes ago, Ham said:

The Villa one was wrong. Again he connected with the ball but his foot bounced off the ball and connected at a similar height. 

I'm sure there's a correlation between the levels of interest shown by the commentators. Versus Villa they were calling for a red. Yesterday they weren't. 

It was a bit of a needless challenge in the first place, I guess you can put that down to Gusto's age. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

I don’t think the Gusto challenge was a red, but I was worried VAR were going to intervene and change it to a red. Slow it down, freeze the frame and it looks a lot worse than it was. I’m sure it was uncomfortable for Willian but it’s just one of those unlucky contacts that gets made, nothing malicious in it and didn’t put the player in danger, IMO.

I continue to be impressed by Gusto, hard to believe he’s only 20! He’s clearly had a very good football education back in France.