martin1905 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, Dwmh said: I guess Pep's achievements for getting 90 points and a CL should be written off too for the same reason. No ones writing anything off, just putting it into perspective. He won the league once, the champions league once and both domestic cups once after assembling the most expensive starting 11 in the history of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 I think if we gave Graham Potter 8 years and £800m to spend he would have a fair chance of winning the league once. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Just now, martin1905 said: No ones writing anything off, just putting it into perspective. He won the league once, the champions league once and both domestic cups once after assembling the most expensive starting 11 in the history of football. He won the Covid league once , The Champions league against a simpleton and Spurs and both domestic cups on penalties fixed it for you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, Dwmh said: I guess Pep's achievements for getting 90 points and a CL should be written off too for the same reason. Ultimately I think Pep has proved to be up there with Ferguson as the best manager ever. Jose has dropped out of the running for that- he is down in history among the best of the rest with Wenger, Klopp etc. The whole point around Klopp for me isn't about whether he's the best manager of all time, but the fact that he is a great character who makes the game of football more interesting. It would be funny to still see Liverpool failing under Rodgers but as a football fan you just cannot ignore moments like the Barcelona comeback, the title races against City etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 minute ago, martin1905 said: I think if we gave Graham Potter 8 years and £800m to spend he would have a fair chance of winning the league once. Every top club in the league spends massive amounts of money now Martin. The fact is he has still spent a lot less than everyone else in net terms and has anyway earned his right to spend that much through his success. If we spent another 500 million under Tuchel I would say he deserved it because he was successful for us. The reason why Potter didn't get 800 million to spend was because he was unsuccessful. It's like you are holding that spend against him - actually him being there for that long was because he did a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: Every top club in the league spends massive amounts of money now Martin. The fact is he has still spent a lot less than everyone else in net terms and has anyway earned his right to spend that much through his success. If we spent another 500 million under Tuchel I would say he deserved it because he was successful for us. The reason why Potter didn't get 800 million to spend was because he was unsuccessful. It's like you are holding that spend against him - actually him being there for that long was because he did a great job. He spent over £600m before winning the league. I'm not knocking him, he's a great manager but has spent more money than anyone other than Pep, has been there nearly 9 full seasons and won the league once. It's just about giving people some perspective. Yes he got over 90 points 3 times and yes he came up against City and Pep but people make out like he was the pauper up against the unlimited funds of City and its just not the case. He spent his way to success, like pretty much every successful manager does. Not sure why the narrative is trying to be changed, especially on a Chelsea forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 6 minutes ago, martin1905 said: He spent over £600m before winning the league. I'm not knocking him, he's a great manager but has spent more money than anyone other than Pep, has been there nearly 9 full seasons and won the league once. It's just about giving people some perspective. Yes he got over 90 points 3 times and yes he came up against City and Pep but people make out like he was the pauper up against the unlimited funds of City and its just not the case. He spent his way to success, like pretty much every successful manager does. Not sure why the narrative is trying to be changed, especially on a Chelsea forum. We'll agree he spent decent money - but not on the fact that he spent more than anyone other than Pep. He actually spent less than all the other top clubs during his tenure. But now we're going round in circles. Personally I would prefer if Chelsea fans on here would drop the "media bias" blah blah narrative and just say - we want the Premier League to be strong and fair and exciting. Makes it even more fun to win. Acknowledge good characters when they come around - give them credit where it's due and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: We'll agree he spent decent money - but not on the fact that he spent more than anyone other than Pep. He actually spent less than all the other top clubs during his tenure. But now we're going round in circles. Personally I would prefer if Chelsea fans on here would drop the "media bias" blah blah narrative and just say - we want the Premier League to be strong and fair and exciting. Makes it even more fun to win. Acknowledge good characters when they come around - give them credit where it's due and move on. I'll drop the media bias when the media do. You're posts are suspiciously veering towards Closet journo territory by the way 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 41 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: The reason why Potter didn't get 800 million to spend was because he was unsuccessful. No because Todd & Egg’sy decided to give the money to three scouts with lists of players from their previous employers 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: We'll agree he spent decent money - but not on the fact that he spent more than anyone other than Pep. So he didn't spend £800m on new players? He didn't assemble the most expensive starting line up in premier league history costing over £700m? Net spend is so irrelevant to a manager. It only has a place in conversation when it comes to balancing the books. He had a team worth over £700m that he bought every single player, apart from Trent, yet claim he spent less than £300m, how does that work? 16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, paulw66 said: Either exceptional, or mediocre. Juice on, juice off. Juice on, juice off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 15 minutes ago, martin1905 said: Net spend is so irrelevant to a manager. It only has a place in conversation when it comes to balancing the books. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Really? Absolutely, if a manager spends £800m on players then he has spent £800m on players. He has still assembled a squad of players that cost £800m. How the club generates that money, if some of it comes from selling players or whatever other avenue is irrelevant. He still has a squad that cost £800m. His squad isn't worth £300m is it? The squad is worth what it cost, not that minus the players sold. I've never looked at his team and thought, didn't he do well assembling that squad for a net spend of under £300m, I've looked at it and gone yeah well he spent £140m on a Goalkeeper and Centre half, Nunez cost £85m not £26m because they sold a couple of squad players. Maybe that's what we should start doing, Mudryk wasn't a waste of money, he was basically free because we sold Mount for a similar fee. So he didn't actually cost anything. Players cost what they cost. Fair play to the clubs that make some of that money back by selling players, we've been very good at it but it doesn't change how much is spent on incoming transfers. It doesn't change how much Klopp has spent on players. Completely different topic to a clubs net spend. Net spend, I'd imagine, is very important to a clubs yearly finances, I doubt the manger gives any thought to it. He just wants his transfer funds, however they come. Would be different if a manager bought through loads of youth team players ,that cost nothing, sold them on for huge profit and reinvested that money and went on to win multiple titles. I'd be the first to say fair play. Edited January 30 by martin1905 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, martin1905 said: He spent his way to success, like pretty much every successful manager does. Not sure why the narrative is trying to be changed, especially on a Chelsea forum. Tbf, though, Chelsea supporters are going to be some of those most painfully aware that you can't just spend your way to success. Or, perhaps more accurately, that spending also has to include spending a huge amount on a brilliant coach. My interest is just that Klopp is clearly a brilliant coach, and I'm not getting the sense that anyone here actually sees differently. For avoidance of doubt, I hate him (he is someone you love if he's one of your own, but I do dislike the idea he is more universally admirable) and I hate Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 11 minutes ago, thevelourfog said: Tbf, though, Chelsea supporters are going to be some of those most painfully aware that you can't just spend your way to success. Or, perhaps more accurately, that spending also has to include spending a huge amount on a brilliant coach. My interest is just that Klopp is clearly a brilliant coach, and I'm not getting the sense that anyone here actually sees differently. For avoidance of doubt, I hate him (he is someone you love if he's one of your own, but I do dislike the idea he is more universally admirable) and I hate Liverpool. For me it's the Mark Hughes effect . I absolutely loathed him when he was at United Loved him when he played for us . Klippety is the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, Max Fowler said: I also really like Klopp personally - think he's a great guy even if he can be a twat on the sidelines sometimes... Klopp is a twat on the sidelines all the time now. When he first arrived he was mildly amusing much like JM, but also like JM after a few seasons he’s become an obnoxious ar*ehole who spends his time berating officials and blaming everyone else when his team loses. Can’t wait to see him and his Turkey Teeth disappear into the sunset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, martin1905 said: Absolutely, if a manager spends £800m on players then he has spent £800m on players. He's partly only spent that so much because he's been there for so long. Very strange argument. Also if we sold all our players for 1 billion and replaced them all with free transfers - then you would understand why net spend matters Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NoblyBobly Posted January 30 Popular Post Share Posted January 30 5 hours ago, Max Fowler said: It's not just two Premier League teams - it's the 1st placed team vs. the 9th placed team. With the 1st placed team having an iconic manager now on his goodbye parade making them nigh on impossible to beat. And what is our record away from Stamford Bridge this season? What is Poch's glittering record of winning UK cup competitions? That all adds up to next to no chance - if you think we can scrape through on pens then I am happy for you to wear your lucky underwear to try and make it happen. Well you don’t sound very happy , you sound almost suicidal. Like I say, if it’s such an impossibility then stick your life savings on it. But it’s not an impossibility is it? Far from it. So let me correct you on a couple of things and help put a spring in your step and your hat at a jaunty angle. It is a fact that it is two Premiership teams. It is an undeniable fact. It is a fact that that we have already played them at the Bridge during very poor form and it was ….wait for it….. this is going to shock you….a draw!!! Of late our form has improved at lot. We are still erratic of course but 6 goals got us through to the final. We have moments when we can put 4 goals past City. So what I’m saying is , we are not completely shite and they are not a machine. This is a final, a one off game. It wouldn’t even be a major cup upset. Remember Sunderland beating Leeds? Remember lowly Wimbledon beating some top team in the FA cup…now who was it, the name escapes me? And I remember as a young lad in 1984 watching us give them an unexpected hiding at the Bridge. I even nicked one of the dippers Kit Kats after the game! I don’t want to rely on my lucky underpants . I want a fair ref and I want that we play well and take our chances. If we start missing from 3 yards then it’s goodnight Vienna. Take a leaf out of Vinny Jones book when he played for Chelsea when he walked under the sign “This is Anfield” on the stairs and allegedly scribbled on the wall “…and we are bothered” . 2 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyCFC Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 20 hours ago, east lower said: The sight of them setting off flares and throwing them and other things at our team coach on its way into the stadium along with their absolute arrogance that they were winning the league and then their realisation that their nemesis’s (Jose and Chelsea) had quite literally done for them was beautiful to behold. I’m normally an anonymous away fan when coming away but I recall this scouser raging at this and that and how they were cheated out of a victory and etc, etc and couldn’t resist the urge to tell him that they’d just been schooled by the master and that Rodgers had he been half the manager that Jose was wouldn’t have lost that game. Was getting a little bit heated when some massive scouser came over (thought I might have an issue) and said to the other fella’s he’s 100% right and to suck it up. Beat a retreat then and sat in the coach taking in all their miserable faces. Joyous indeed, with that slip being the icing on the cake. If only Fernando had poked the goal in, rather than doing the ‘right-thing’ and squaring it to Willian (it was Willian, wasn’t it?) would have popped the cherry on the top of the bakewell. That must have been amazing to have been there that day and witness it first hand. I can imagine the joy in walking out at the end and witnessing the melt down!! As you say the arrogance was astounding, they had all their past names there that day as if it was a victory parade. Sly Sports of course was lapping it up on the tv as well in the build up. If I remember correctly we were between CL semis with Atletico and had a number of key injuries so had a weakened side. It was a foregone conclusion, or so they thought… It has to be one of the most satisfying results we have had, without actually winning a trophy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 5 minutes ago, JonnyCFC said: That must have been amazing to have been there that day and witness it first hand. I can imagine the joy in walking out at the end and witnessing the melt down!! As you say the arrogance was astounding, they had all their past names there that day as if it was a victory parade. Sly Sports of course was lapping it up on the tv as well in the build up. If I remember correctly we were between CL semis with Atletico and had a number of key injuries so had a weakened side. It was a foregone conclusion, or so they thought… It has to be one of the most satisfying results we have had, without actually winning a trophy. Right up there with the battle of the bridge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east lower Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, JonnyCFC said: That must have been amazing to have been there that day and witness it first hand. I can imagine the joy in walking out at the end and witnessing the melt down!! As you say the arrogance was astounding, they had all their past names there that day as if it was a victory parade. Sly Sports of course was lapping it up on the tv as well in the build up. If I remember correctly we were between CL semis with Atletico and had a number of key injuries so had a weakened side. It was a foregone conclusion, or so they thought… It has to be one of the most satisfying results we have had, without actually winning a trophy. It was a cobbled together team alright Tomas Kalas played at centre-half if memory serves me correctly - even Jose had the flu! He was lively enough on the touchline though, beating his chest, he laid it on thick - good for him. In its own way it was as good, if not better than the game we needed to win there to go into the last game of the season with the title in our own hands - a 4-1 win? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fowler Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, NoblyBobly said: Well you don’t sound very happy , you sound almost suicidal. Like I say, if it’s such an impossibility then stick your life savings on it. But it’s not an impossibility is it? Far from it. So let me correct you on a couple of things and help put a spring in your step and your hat at a jaunty angle. It is a fact that it is two Premiership teams. It is an undeniable fact. It is a fact that that we have already played them at the Bridge during very poor form and it was ….wait for it….. this is going to shock you….a draw!!! Of late our form has improved at lot. We are still erratic of course but 6 goals got us through to the final. We have moments when we can put 4 goals past City. So what I’m saying is , we are not completely shite and they are not a machine. This is a final, a one off game. It wouldn’t even be a major cup upset. Remember Sunderland beating Leeds? Remember lowly Wimbledon beating some top team in the FA cup…now who was it, the name escapes me? And I remember as a young lad in 1984 watching us give them an unexpected hiding at the Bridge. I even nicked one of the dippers Kit Kats after the game! During very poor form? As in... our first game of the season? The difference is - Klopp is leaving now. That gives them extra motivation and us no chance. The fact that we are even mentioning ourselves alongside "cup upsets" shows how far we have fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyCFC Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, east lower said: It was a cobbled together team alright Tomas Kalas played at centre-half if memory serves me correctly - even Jose had the flu! He was lively enough on the touchline though, beating his chest, he laid it on thick - good for him. In its own way it was as good, if not better than the game we needed to win there to go into the last game of the season with the title in our own hands - a 4-1 win? If you mean the 2010 season, second to last game, think that was 2-0. I remember the 4-1 game you mention well, it was our first visit back there after the CL semi final ghost goal game the season before. Jose walking down the touch line near the end, winding up their lot with finger to his lips shushing them 😂😂😂 stuff of legend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holymoly Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I think I'll hibernate for the next 24 hours. The whole event is going to be horrendous. See you tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarefreeMuratcan Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 YouTube algorithm decided to play Blue Day in my car on my the way to work this morning. Poll option changed back to WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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