Aston Villa 2 Chelsea 2

[Sciatika]

I imagine players returning from long-term injury would be built up in training before returning to the squad. If I had my way, they would turn out for the U21s, who have a fixture with the Saints tonight. With Enzo out, I imagine something like:

-------------------------------Petrovic

Disasi/Gilchrist-------Chalobah------Silva------Cucurella

-----------------------Caicedo

----------------------------------------Gallagher

-----------Madueke--------Palmer---------Mudryk

------------------------------Jackson 

But with lots of rotation up front, I did wonder if we might play Cucurella on the right. I thought he played well there against Brighton, handling Mitoma well. That would allow us to play Chilwell on the left. They will probably play Rogers on their left as Zaniolo is injured. But we lack solidity at the back, so the extra CB as an RB seems to make sense. Hopefully, no one gets themselves sent off this time. Not confident.

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I imagine players returning from long-term injury would be built up in training before returning to the squad. If I had my way, they would turn out for the U21s, who have a fixture with the Saints tonight. With Enzo out, I imagine something like:

-------------------------------Petrovic

Disasi/Gilchrist-------Chalobah------Silva------Cucurella

-----------------------Caicedo

----------------------------------------Gallagher

-----------Madueke--------Palmer---------Mudryk

------------------------------Jackson 

But with lots of rotation up front, I did wonder if we might play Cucurella on the right. I thought he played well there against Brighton, handling Mitoma well. That would allow us to play Chilwell on the left. They will probably play Rogers on their left as Zaniolo is injured. But we lack solidity at the back, so the extra CB as an RB seems to make sense. Hopefully, no one gets themselves sent off this time. Not confident.

Isn't Chilwell injured? 

[Sciatika]

You're right. My bad.

[Max Fowler]

I don't know where to put this comment so I am just going to put it here:

I believe there is a strong bias on this forum to not fully respect our former achievements, particularly post the "legendary RA era" of Jose, JT, Lamps, Drogba and co.

So often I read on here statements like "We were going nowhere under Roman in recent years", "Tuchel was past his best and needed to go", "Kovacic was an average player at best", "If Havertz hadn't scored in the CL final he wouldn't have been remembered at all".

This is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING to me. Namely - we have won TWO Champions Leagues in our history and all of the aforementioned names contributed to ONE of those two wins. Undoubtedly the second greatest night in my history as a Chelsea fan. 

Drogba, Lampard and JT could only deliver the same amount of Champions Leagues as Tuchel, Havertz and Kovacic. 
And despite the fact that we fell off in the league during the latter years of RA - we still delivered trophies on a regular basis.

To me this partly stems from two reasons:

1) There are a few prominent and beloved members on here who are in complete denial about how poorly our club is currently being run and how we have completely destroyed our winning mentality and culture. Therefore, it helps their state of denial to rewrite history - "the achievements weren't that great after all". Or blaming the current situation on everything except the owners, because it hurts to admit the hard truth that with bad owners like ours we are the most seriously in trouble.

2) More understandably, there are some who were hurt about how some of the experienced players downed tools in the early months of Clearlake. I do not deny that some of them could have fought harder at the end, but this completely misses the fact that this was a self-inflicted chaos that would have been almost impossible to function in - even if the players had given their all. The fact that some our formerly key players were clearly up for sale did not help either. We should have respected their achievements and built a squad around them, instead we made it clear that they were not wanted and built a dressing room of 40 first-teamers that left the likes of Mudryk changing in the corridor.

We have only won the Champions League twice guys. TWICE! We're not f'in Real Madrid.

To close, I believe the vast majority of Chelsea fans are on a similar page to me and again - there is a bias on this website against all of the above. 
I am okay with that. Ciao!

Edited April 26 by Max Fowler

[My Blood Is Blue]

35 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I don't know where to put this comment so I am just going to put it here:

I believe there is a strong bias on this forum to not fully respect our former achievements, particularly post the "legendary RA era" of Jose, JT, Lamps, Drogba and co.

So often I read on here statements like "We were going nowhere under Roman in recent years", "Tuchel was past his best and needed to go", "Kovacic was an average player at best", "If Havertz hadn't scored in the CL final he wouldn't have been remembered at all".

This is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING to me. Namely - we have won TWO Champions Leagues in our history and all of the aforementioned names contributed to ONE of those two wins. Undoubtedly the second greatest night in my history as a Chelsea fan. 

Drogba, Lampard and JT could only deliver the same amount of Champions Leagues as Tuchel, Havertz and Kovacic. 
And despite the fact that we fell off in the league during the latter years of RA - we still delivered trophies on a regular basis.

To me this partly stems from two reasons:

1) There are a few prominent and beloved members on here who are in complete denial about how poorly our club is currently being run and how we have completely destroyed our winning mentality and culture. Therefore, it helps their state of denial to rewrite history - "the achievements weren't that great after all". Or blaming the current situation on everything except the owners, because it hurts to admit the hard truth that with bad owners like ours we are the most seriously in trouble.

2) More understandably, there are some who were hurt about how some of the experienced players downed tools in the early months of Clearlake. I do not deny that some of them could have fought harder at the end, but this completely misses the fact that this was a self-inflicted chaos that would have been almost impossible to function in - even if the players had given their all. The fact that some our formerly key players were clearly up for sale did not help either. We should have respected their achievements and built a squad around them, instead we made it clear that they were not wanted and built a dressing room of 40 first-teamers that left the likes of Mudryk changing in the corridor.

We have only won the Champions League twice guys. TWICE! We're not f'in Real Madrid.

To close, I believe the vast majority of Chelsea fans are on a similar page to me and again - there is a bias on this website against all of the above. 
I am okay with that. Ciao!

Max, you probably won't be surprised that I disagree with a lot of this, but I'm not going to go into each of the points you've raised as I think a lot of these are being discussed on various topics across the site already. What l will say is that this forum has a whole bunch of people who inevitably have differing views and different posting styles. Some people post regularly and are forthright with their views, others post less often and may not always push too strongly on how they feel and everything and everyone in between... all are fine and all are encouraged, if we didn't have differing views then we wouldn't have a forum. I think to suggest this forum has a bias of any sort is wrong but also unfair. 

The only thing I would pull out from what you've said is around people not wanting to call out how badly the club is being run... I think the vast majority agree that the owners haven't been doing a good job, but just because that view is held, it doesn't mean people can't think others are to blame for our form this season.

[Mark Kelly]

Blimey there having a hard on for Havertz and really having a hard on for Havertz. 

 

[NoblyBobly]

@Max Fowler There’s no bias about anything on this forum. There might be a prevailing view on some subjects but that’s about it. Would you say there is a bias in the opinion that we have not had a great season?  No, that is a prevailing view. 
As far as our current situation , I take it back to the Roman era when we bought a load of expensive rubbish on Lampards second season and expected him to win the title with it. I would have kept the squad largely as it was in his first season. But that discussion has been had. Some agreed with me and some didn’t. 
And Max , you are a good contributor with interesting views. Don’t delve too deep. It’s only a bunch of blokes venting bollocks on our football club. 

[Bones]

Havertz was phenomenal against Real Madrid prior to that City game too.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Max, you probably won't be surprised that I disagree with a lot of this, but I'm not going to go into each of the points you've raised as I think a lot of these are being discussed on various topics across the site already. What l will say is that this forum has a whole bunch of people who inevitably have differing views and different posting styles. Some people post regularly and are forthright with their views, others post less often and may not always push too strongly on how they feel and everything and everyone in between... all are fine and all are encouraged, if we didn't have differing views then we wouldn't have a forum. I think to suggest this forum has a bias of any sort is wrong but also unfair. 

The only thing I would pull out from what you've said is around people not wanting to call out how badly the club is being run... I think the vast majority agree that the owners haven't been doing a good job, but just because that view is held, it doesn't mean people can't think others are to blame for our form this season.

 

51 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

@Max Fowler There’s no bias about anything on this forum. There might be a prevailing view on some subjects but that’s about it. Would you say there is a bias in the opinion that we have not had a great season?  No, that is a prevailing view. 
As far as our current situation , I take it back to the Roman era when we bought a load of expensive rubbish on Lampards second season and expected him to win the title with it. I would have kept the squad largely as it was in his first season. But that discussion has been had. Some agreed with me and some didn’t. 
And Max , you are a good contributor with interesting views. Don’t delve too deep. It’s only a bunch of blokes venting bollocks on our football club. 

Sam, Nobly. Please don’t take my post as a criticism of the forum at all. My point that there is a bias here on this topic isn’t to denigrate in any way. It’s simply an honest reflection of what I perceive - that the sample of 5-10 really active posters I have debated with is not a representative sample of the whole fanbase on this subject.

EDIT: Perhaps it is wrong of me to imply that this is the whole forum - but if 80% of the posts on this subject are from the aforementioned sample, that is the impression that is given.

Edited April 26 by Max Fowler

[Rob B]

Not what Poch will play, but my team would be something like this

                                        Petrovic

           Chalobah   Disasi   Silva    Cucurella

                             Caicedo    Gallagher

        Palmer        Chukwuemeka     Sterling

                                       Jackson

 

After the Arsenal shambles, Madueke and Mudryk should be nowhere near it.   Save Alfie G the embarrassment unless he's played in his proper position at CB (which seems unlikely).  Chalobah at RB only because I think he is a better 1v1 defender than Disasi.   Would be nice for Carney to get a start against his former club. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

 

Didn't know where else to post this :)

[boratsbrother]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I don't know where to put this comment so I am just going to put it here:

I believe there is a strong bias on this forum to not fully respect our former achievements, particularly post the "legendary RA era" of Jose, JT, Lamps, Drogba and co.

So often I read on here statements like "We were going nowhere under Roman in recent years", "Tuchel was past his best and needed to go", "Kovacic was an average player at best", "If Havertz hadn't scored in the CL final he wouldn't have been remembered at all".

This is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING to me. Namely - we have won TWO Champions Leagues in our history and all of the aforementioned names contributed to ONE of those two wins. Undoubtedly the second greatest night in my history as a Chelsea fan. 

Drogba, Lampard and JT could only deliver the same amount of Champions Leagues as Tuchel, Havertz and Kovacic. 
And despite the fact that we fell off in the league during the latter years of RA - we still delivered trophies on a regular basis.

To me this partly stems from two reasons:

1) There are a few prominent and beloved members on here who are in complete denial about how poorly our club is currently being run and how we have completely destroyed our winning mentality and culture. Therefore, it helps their state of denial to rewrite history - "the achievements weren't that great after all". Or blaming the current situation on everything except the owners, because it hurts to admit the hard truth that with bad owners like ours we are the most seriously in trouble.

2) More understandably, there are some who were hurt about how some of the experienced players downed tools in the early months of Clearlake. I do not deny that some of them could have fought harder at the end, but this completely misses the fact that this was a self-inflicted chaos that would have been almost impossible to function in - even if the players had given their all. The fact that some our formerly key players were clearly up for sale did not help either. We should have respected their achievements and built a squad around them, instead we made it clear that they were not wanted and built a dressing room of 40 first-teamers that left the likes of Mudryk changing in the corridor.

We have only won the Champions League twice guys. TWICE! We're not f'in Real Madrid.

To close, I believe the vast majority of Chelsea fans are on a similar page to me and again - there is a bias on this website against all of the above. 
I am okay with that. Ciao!

The hard facts prove beyond any doubt that the teams of our golden era under Roman were superior to the later years and far, far superior to what we've seen in recent years, including that team which won the CL in 2021..

We haven't won a domestic trophy for six years. We haven't even challenged for the title in 7 years. We won the CL in  a wierd season played behind closed doors  when we finished 19 points behind City in the league but somehow managed to beat them in a one off game.  It was those years which started the serious rot. Those years where we started to look way, way short of the best. Those years where we started to consistently shit the bed in the big games. 

When we were at our best we were a team which was feared in England and across Europe. We were tough bastards who nobody liked playing.. Every season we were looked on as serious contenders for the title and CL.  We were incredibly consistent season after season after season. 

There's simply zero comparrison between the great Chelsea teams and everything that's followed since 2017!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26 by boratsbrother

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Bones said:

Havertz was phenomenal against Real Madrid prior to that City game too.

Yeah, but he was a “moments” player. No way the “generational” talent everyone touted him as.

Out of him and Timo, I would have kept the latter to this day because imo for all his faults he never stopped running, never hid and always gave everything. I’ve a lot of time for Timo, far more than I do for 95% of the wretches who imo disgrace our colours every week. Sorry if that’s harsh but it’s just how I feel. 🙃🍋👀💯💯

[Max Fowler]

29 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

The hard facts prove beyond any doubt that the teams of our golden era under Roman were superior to the later years and far, far superior to what we've seen in recent years, including that team which won the CL in 2021..

We haven't won a domestic trophy for six years. We haven't even challenged for the title in 7 years. We won the CL in  a wierd season played behind closed doors  when we finished 19 points behind City in the league but somehow managed to beat them in a one off game.  It was those years which started the serious rot. Those years where we started to look way, way short of the best. Those years where we started to consistently shit the bed in the big games. 

When we were at our best we were a team which was feared in England and across Europe. We were tough bastards who nobody liked playing.. Every season we were looked on as serious contenders for the title and CL.  We were incredibly consistent season after season after season. 

There's simply zero comparrison between the great Chelsea teams and everything that's followed since 2017

Precisely one type of post on here that honestly boggles the mind. Again - for what it's worth, I believe the vast majority of the fanbase do not think like this at all. We have won the Champions League twice in our history. But of course you are downplaying the second one because it was a COVID season. How would you feel if I said we were far luckier in the first one? I am sorry - we were FAR more in control and dominant against City (one hundred thousand million percent more in control).

But I HATE saying that or thinking in that way because I do not DOWNPLAY our trophies and I celebrate ALL OF OUR VICTORIES. The second Champions League was the second best night in my life as a Chelsea fan and you are saying we were lucky? It's not even worth responding to such a claim.

I love critiquing our club but there is honest critique and there is straight up masochism. Perhaps you value winning the Premier League more than the Champions League. I don't. But that would be the only way I could relate in any way at all to one word of your post and where you are coming from.

Most fans do not and should not think how you are thinking. There are special teams that come together - 2010 Barcelona, the Man United team that won the treble, the Invincibles, our early years under Jose, even Man City last season. Yet most football fans have the sense to know that these teams come together for unique reasons that cannot "just" be replicated.

Yet we never won the Champions League under Jose or until Di Matteo. We should respect that the Tuchel era culminated in of the best moments in OUR HISTORY. Tuchel goes down as one of our greatest managers of all time because of it.

Again - we are not Real Madrid. Have some perspective. Have some respect for the amazing things that we have achieved. Have some humility. Despite the emotion of my post, I fully respect your opinion and perspective - but I also respectfully and strongly disagree with you. 💙

Edited April 26 by Max Fowler

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Precisely one type of post on here that honestly boggles the mind. Again - for what it's worth, I believe the vast majority of the fanbase do not think like this at all. We have won the Champions League twice in our history. But of course you are downplaying the second one because it was a COVID season. How would you feel if I said we were far luckier in the first one? I am sorry - we were FAR more in control and dominant against City (one hundred thousand million percent more in control).

But I HATE saying that or thinking in that way because I do not DOWNPLAY our trophies and I celebrate ALL OF OUR VICTORIES. The second Champions League was the second best night in my life as a Chelsea fan and you are saying we were lucky? It's not even worth responding to such a claim.

I love critiquing our club but there is honest critique and there is straight up masochism. Perhaps you value winning the Premier League more than the Champions League. I don't. But that would be the only way I could relate in any way at all to one word of your post and where you are coming from.

Most fans do not and should not think how you are thinking. There are special teams that come together - 2010 Barcelona, the Man United team that won the treble, the Invincibles, our early years under Jose, even Man City last season. Yet most football fans have the sense to know that these teams come together for unique reasons that cannot "just" be replicated.

Yet we never won the Champions League under Jose or until Di Matteo. We should respect that the Tuchel era culminated in of the best moments in OUR HISTORY. Tuchel goes down as one of our greatest managers of all time because of it.

Again - we are not Real Madrid. Have some perspective. Have some respect for the amazing things that we have achieved. Have some humility. Despite the emotion of my post, I fully respect your opinion and perspective - but I also respectfully and strongly disagree with you. 💙

I would imagine the vast fan base of which you mention couldn't find Stamford Bridge if you put them in an Uber at Fulham Broadway 

[Max Fowler]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I would imagine the vast fan base of which you mention couldn't find Stamford Bridge if you put them in an Uber at Fulham Broadway 

Luck is a race to the bottom Mark. You know what - we were LUCKY we had JT in our academy. OMG We were SOOOO lucky Drogba scored in the Champions League final. That trophy barely even counts. That Torres? What a waste of space!!! Noone would remember him if it wasn't for that goal against Barcelona.

Speaking of lucky - we were so lucky that Roman came along when he did. There was no Man City or other billionaire owners to deal with. God we were lucky then!! I wouldn't even count those first trophies because there was no competition!!! Tuchel had to deal with prime Liverpool and City under Klopp and Guardiola!!! Jose was SOOO lucky in 2004-05. Never won the Champions League and blew up the dressing room twice! Better off without him.

Race to the bottom downplaying / putting our entire history down to luck--- let's go 🛝🛝🛝🛝🛝 #weaintgotnohistory #itwasallluck

Edited April 26 by Max Fowler

[asvaberg]

Listen to The Boss- wise words: 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/DMs8oqFmtqzEXd5d/

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

Listen to The Boss- wise words: 

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/DMs8oqFmtqzEXd5d/

I’d have him back in a heartbeat. 💚💚💚🇳🇴

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Luck is a race to the bottom Mark. You know what - we were LUCKY we had JT in our academy. OMG We were SOOOO lucky Drogba scored in the Champions League final. That trophy barely even counts. That Torres? What a waste of space!!! Noone would remember him if it wasn't for that goal against Barcelona.

Speaking of lucky - we were so lucky that Roman came along when he did. There was no Man City or other billionaire owners to deal with. God we were lucky then!! I wouldn't even count those first trophies because there was no competition!!! Tuchel had to deal with prime Liverpool and City under Klopp and Guardiola!!! Jose was SOOO lucky in 2004-05. Never won the Champions League and blew up the dressing room twice! Better off without him.

Race to the bottom downplaying / putting our entire history down to luck--- let's go 🛝🛝🛝🛝🛝 #weaintgotnohistory #itwasallluck

I do believe you are once again arguing with me about points I haven't made.  Don't believe I have ever mentioned us being lucky, we certainly haven't been with injuries these past seasons. 

However, luck does play a part but so does building a cohesive team and making the whole a better proposition than the separate parts. 

Tuchel did a great job at that, I don't think you'll find many to argue against that although the signs were there that he was unhappy with the quality of the squad and the fact that many of them were running down their contracts.

 

[Max Fowler]

Just now, Mark Kelly said:

I do believe you are once again arguing with me about points I haven't made.  Don't believe I have ever mentioned us being lucky, we certainly haven't been with injuries these past seasons. 

However, luck does play a part but so does building a cohesive team and making the whole a better proposition than the separate parts. 

Tuchel did a great job at that, I don't think you'll find many to argue against that although the signs were there that he was unhappy with the quality of the squad and the fact that many of them were running down their contracts.

 

Yeah was more responding to you as the latest great man with a pint but I know YOU didn’t say that 😀

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Yeah was more responding to you as the latest great man with a pint but I know YOU didn’t say that 😀

A pint does sound nice though. 

[boratsbrother]

I'd also rate the pre Roman era of Zola, Vialli and co higher than our teams since 2017.

Not only more successful but also a damn sight more enjoyable football to watch as well. They were also a crucially important team in our history, laying the foundations for everything that followed during Romans rule.

Edited April 26 by boratsbrother

[chara]

Interesting to and fro,,,quick OG response...Havertz...indeed a "moments" player... the bewildering ONLY WON THE EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIP TWICE!

Go through the EPL and beyond,,, or just take the London "elite"....how many followers can stand up and say that?.....some red shirted and white shirted fans would give a left 🥜 to be able to say that.

 

[Max Fowler]

38 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

I'd also rate the pre Roman era of Zola, Vialli and co higher than our teams since 2017.

Not only more successful but also a damn sight more enjoyable football to watch as well. They were also a crucially important team in our history, laying the foundations for everything that followed during Romans rule.

Interesting point. But I still don’t get the constant need to compare. We have had many successful teams over the last 30 years. Successful for different reasons. Some teams better than others - more trophies, talent, fun to watch. Others laying the groundwork.

I would never play down the achievements of the pre-Roman side. Why play down the achievements of the late Roman era? Only value IMO is to justify that Roman wasn’t flawless but we know that already.

Many worry that we are now not building a team that lays any groundwork, that we gutted the good things we DID still have. It isn’t to claim Roman was perfect and Clearlake the devil, but after 18 months of what we have seen, there is good reason to be concerned. 

[chrisb]

@Max Fowler, don’t get too fixated on other peoples opinions and thoughts as they are theirs and theirs alone. Other people may agree with them but if you don’t then that’s fine. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink and if you try to force it you’ll probably get kicked square in the plums. In other words just stick to your opinion but don’t keep trying to tell others that  they’re wrong, it just doesn’t work!

Most of us “older folk” on here can’t remember getting up this morning let alone anything beyond yesterday.

 

Oh, and Havertz was shit and I miss him about as much as the genital warts I had when I was young! 😁