Crystal Palace 1 Chelsea 3

[Holymoly]

23 hours ago, Sciatika said:

I used to live near Selburst Park. The area was OK apart from the days the Palace fans turned up. 

I used to do my shopping at Sainsbury's there when I lived in Croydon. Of course the gaff has shifted significantly downmarket in the intervening 40 years.

[boratsbrother]

4 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Question @boratsbrother - do you think we were in crisis mode after Wolves?
The point isn't the difficulty of those games - the point is we are already 11th!!! If we started the season with these 5 games I would fully agree with you. 

The fact is we are already 11th and will likely end up 12th - 14th after those games - nearly 3 quarters of the way through the season.

That isn't crisis mode? Absolutely crazy how our standards have slipped in such a short space of time.

Whether you think that is crisis mode or not, the fans will - and I fully expect the revolt we saw in the Wolves game to get far, far worse.

No I didn't think we were in crisis after the Wolves game. I took it for what it was which was a very poor performance and result. Equally, the win at Villa was a good performance and result, but that in no way is an indication that we are heading back up to the top level again and neither would good results against City and Arsenal.

I keep saying this, but what we are seeing is pretty much what I'd expect to see from a team like ours at this moment in time - some good, sometimes very good moments and periods in games. some indifferent and some bloody awful. I expect this next season too, but less of the awful and more of the  good.

 

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, Dwmh said:

It is curious just how quickly we have adjusted to being a mid-table team which gets excited when we beat a team a little above us and demoralised when we lose to a team 3 points below us.
 

 

 

It's just a matter of accepting the reality of where we currently are. No point in deluding ourselves that we're a great team which is just having bad luck and going through a sticky patch. Also  no  point  in thinking we're at crisis point, because we are not! We might be if things don't significantly improve in the next 2 years, but definitely not at this moment in time!

[Sciatika]

To be honest, I never expected to be much higher than midtable, which is why I got a bit overexcited when I thought there was a chance we would. I think this is the season when we rebuild, and I can see some evidence of that. But they are young and inconsistent and we have suffered with injuries and other issues. So, I have been trying to be positive (even sometimes ridiculously so) because I can't see the point in negativity at this time in the season. To be honest, it gets me down. I have to see some humour in it. The chants:

"How s**t must you be, we're winning away," or

"You're nothing special, we always lose"

is where we are. Like all fans, we like a moan.  As a club, what we should be concentrating on is helping the players do better, and for that, they need the support of the club, coaches and, particularly, the fans. The fans were absolutely magnificent at Villa Park and I am putting much of the good performance down to that.

[Max Fowler]

21 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

To be honest, I never expected to be much higher than midtable, which is why I got a bit overexcited when I thought there was a chance we would. I think this is the season when we rebuild, and I can see some evidence of that. But they are young and inconsistent and we have suffered with injuries and other issues. So, I have been trying to be positive (even sometimes ridiculously so) because I can't see the point in negativity at this time in the season. To be honest, it gets me down. I have to see some humour in it. The chants:

"How s**t must you be, we're winning away," or

"You're nothing special, we always lose"

is where we are. Like all fans, we like a moan.  As a club, what we should be concentrating on is helping the players do better, and for that, they need the support of the club, coaches and, particularly, the fans. The fans were absolutely magnificent at Villa Park and I am putting much of the good performance down to that.

The matchday fans would have been unbelievably critical if we had not turned up against Villa, you can bet your bottom dollar on that. They would have booed the team off the pitch - but we turned up, so they didn't. 

The performance did not come from the support of the fans - sure it helped as the game progressed. The lads decided to turn up for once and the fans responded - if they bottled it there would have been more mutiny.

[Sciatika]

I never said it was all down to the fans, but it is like a symbiotic relationship. I heard them singing and chanting before the kick-off. I think my point is that we need them to understand what is and is not acceptable in terms of effort, but, given the effort is there, then we need to give them the benefit of the doubt when passes go wrong or they make the wrong decision. To me, that is not a thing to boo.

Edited February 9 by Sciatika

[Max Fowler]

57 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

No I didn't think we were in crisis after the Wolves game. I took it for what it was which was a very poor performance and result. Equally, the win at Villa was a good performance and result, but that in no way is an indication that we are heading back up to the top level again and neither would good results against City and Arsenal.

I keep saying this, but what we are seeing is pretty much what I'd expect to see from a team like ours at this moment in time - some good, sometimes very good moments and periods in games. some indifferent and some bloody awful. I expect this next season too, but less of the awful and more of the  good.

Well pretty much the rest of world football and the vast majority of our fanbase thought we were in a crisis. Fair enough if you didn't. I count it as a crisis because the pressure was growing enough, and likely still will, to force Poch out of his job.

You may not think it's a crisis, but enough fans do and that tells. You may be okay with finishing mid-table and putting in performances like we have done, but most fans are not. The owners will sack Poch to save face just as they did with Potter - and, by the way, exactly the same arguments were made with Potter and we are getting less points under Poch.

There is a recurring framing of "the ups and downs" of watching us, but the reality is Villa was unique because it was literally the first time this season we put in a complete performance. "Good moments and periods in games" just isn't good enough - Sheffield United have that, Burnley have that - we are Chelsea Football Club and we should expect much more.

Again, if you want to be patient I admire it. But I hope you will agree that there is a reality of fan and media pressure that will very likely get rid of Poch if not before the end of the season then by it. Not that I think getting rid of Poch is anywhere near the biggest thing we need to change - but it will be a reflection of where we are and the fans having spoken again.

[Max Fowler]

8 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I never said it was all down to the fans, but it is like a symbiotic relationship. I heard them singing and chanting before the kick-off. I think my point is that we need them to understand what is and is not acceptable in terms of effort, but, given the effort is there, then we need to give them the benefit of the doubt when passes go wrong or they make the wrong decision. To me, that is not a thing to boo.

The players and manager are a reflection of the project. If we look like schoolboys then booing tells the owners and everyone involved that it's just not good enough. Booing is the start of protest and protest is the start of change. 

The players are paid enough and haven't exactly conducted themselves well this season either - on and off the pitch. They can save the season putting in good performances and a good win at Palace will obviously be applauded.

[Ham]

7 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

My post wasn't aimed at you @My Blood Is Blue - I think you are quite realistic about where we are at. There are a few people on here however, who cede absolutely no ground in terms of admitting how badly this project is failing, so I am also bored of people acting as if everything is okay because we had one good performance against Villa.

 

You say that people, myself being one of the main culprits for sure, refuse to cede ground on how badly the entire project is going and that says a lot about why there are so many divisions on this forum.

I've said on many occasions that I believe that we actually have one of the strongest squads in the PL (and for a good few years to come) and that the problem is that they aren't hitting the heights they should.  (Coaching, injuries, lack of confidence, whatever).

As such, there is no need for me to submit to you as I disagree on where the project is. 

I recall the start of the season where we won the PL with Conte and there were so many people saying that we needed to have a massive clear out and it transpired that we just needed the right coach and tactics.

Sometimes all that's needed is a minor tweak or some good luck.

As such, I'll continue to see the positives regardless of the results right now. 

[Max Fowler]

24 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I never said it was all down to the fans, but it is like a symbiotic relationship. I heard them singing and chanting before the kick-off. I think my point is that we need them to understand what is and is not acceptable in terms of effort, but, given the effort is there, then we need to give them the benefit of the doubt when passes go wrong or they make the wrong decision. To me, that is not a thing to boo.

And don't forget we were chanting for Roman Abramovich and Boehly Out before kick off against Villa.

 

 

[Sciatika]

I heard. I am doubtful it helped. 

[Max Fowler]

5 minutes ago, Ham said:

You say that people, myself being one of the main culprits for sure, refuse to cede ground on how badly the entire project is going and that says a lot about why there are so many divisions on this forum.

I've said on many occasions that I believe that we actually have one of the strongest squads in the PL (and for a good few years to come) and that the problem is that they aren't hitting the heights they should.  (Coaching, injuries, lack of confidence, whatever).

As such, there is no need for me to submit to you as I disagree on where the project is. 

I recall the start of the season where we won the PL with Conte and there were so many people saying that we needed to have a massive clear out and it transpired that we just needed the right coach and tactics.

Sometimes all that's needed is a minor tweak or some good luck.

As such, I'll continue to see the positives regardless of the results right now. 

That's fair enough Ham. If you genuinely believe that then fair play. I suppose I am also interested to hear that you are still behind the project - it is unclear because sometimes a lot of what we get is the positive people turning up to comment on when we play well and the opposite when we don't. 

I assumed our continued run of bad results might have given some second thoughts but fair play if not. I agree our squad is strong but it should be way stronger given what we've spent. The Conte analogy doesn't hold for me because we will not buy any experience and you don't win anything with kids. 

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Sciatika said:

I heard. I am doubtful it helped. 

I don't know... I think it might inspire him to come back, all it would take is the end of the conflict, Russia to be invited to join Nato and the British Government to give the Oligarch money and property back. 

I think HM Gov. would be tempted if only we could chant harder. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

27 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't know... I think it might inspire him to come back, all it would take is the end of the conflict, Russia to be invited to join Nato and the British Government to give the Oligarch money and property back. 

I think HM Gov. would be tempted if only we could chant harder. 

If there’s one mad lad who’d do an absolute madness like that…one can dream. 💭 Endless love for imo the best owner in all of sports history. 

[chara]

37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't know... I think it might inspire him to come back, all it would take is the end of the conflict, Russia to be invited to join Nato and the British Government to give the Oligarch money and property back. 

I think HM Gov. would be tempted if only we could chant harder. 

Tempted ?... nay...obligated... if we were 'The Peoples Club' and the everyone's second team,

(Faint echoes of "Jackanory ,Jackanory" as I type.)

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

That's fair enough Ham. If you genuinely believe that then fair play. I suppose I am also interested to hear that you are still behind the project - it is unclear because sometimes a lot of what we get is the positive people turning up to comment on when we play well and the opposite when we don't. 

I assumed our continued run of bad results might have given some second thoughts but fair play if not. I agree our squad is strong but it should be way stronger given what we've spent. The Conte analogy doesn't hold for me because we will not buy any experience and you don't win anything with kids. 

 

Nothing has really changed though Max for there to be any real sway either way in the overall project direction. We're like 8 months in with this side, there's been positives and negatives as one would expect with a side that's been curated as it has. This is going to take time, which may not be music to the ears of some but it's also the real reality of the situation.

In another 12-24 months time a lot of these players may make a big step up, if that was to happen it changes the dynamic entirely. Maybe they don't and we're still in a position of trying to figure things out. We just don't know, so getting worked up about things either way seems rather irrational and premature. 

I've stressed patience from the beginning because we're going to take our lumps and bumps, that was inevitable. What we do moving forward, in terms of squad alterations, and maybe coach alterations, will begin to shape a more precise feeling of the overall situation. I think this team has a degree of untapped potential that can propel it forward a substantial amount, but we're not there yet. And while I don't agree with every decision we've made, I do believe we're in a better position than our standings in the league suggest. 

[Max Fowler]

10 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Nothing has really changed though Max for there to be any real sway either way in the overall project direction. We're like 8 months in with this side, there's been positives and negatives as one would expect with a side that's been curated as it has. This is going to take time, which may not be music to the ears of some but it's also the real reality of the situation.

In another 12-24 months time a lot of these players may make a big step up, if that was to happen it changes the dynamic entirely. Maybe they don't and we're still in a position of trying to figure things out. We just don't know, so getting worked up about things either way seems rather irrational and premature. 

I've stressed patience from the beginning because we're going to take our lumps and bumps, that was inevitable. What we do moving forward, in terms of squad alterations, and maybe coach alterations, will begin to shape a more precise feeling of the overall situation. I think this team has a degree of untapped potential that can propel it forward a substantial amount, but we're not there yet. And while I don't agree with every decision we've made, I do believe we're in a better position than our standings in the league suggest. 

Thanks for sharing Celery.

1) "Nothing has really changed though Max for there to be any real sway either way in the overall project direction."

- Yes there has - we are now nearly two thirds of the way into the season and we are doing worse than the disaster under Potter. That is a lot of data you discount as "nothing" but most Chelsea fans count it as a disgrace.

2) "There's been positives and negatives as one would expect with a side that's been curated as it has"

- Again, that's a lazy cliché. There have been far more negatives than positives. "Curated" doesn't fit here - meaning "selected, organized, and presented using professional or expert knowledge." Clearly our squad has not been setup by experts as so many Chelsea fans are pointing the fingers at our our completely unqualified DoFs.

3) "I do believe we're in a better position than our standings in the league suggest."

- Well bravo to the board, then. We literally sold for the highest price ever paid for a sports team and we're in a better position than 11th? It's hard for the strategy to fail worse than this. We have overtaken Arsenal as the league's joke club and Chelsea fans are clever enough to look at the likes of Arsenal and Man United in recent years and recognise failed strategies that cost them decades without a title.

Calling Chelsea fans "irrational", "entitled" (as others on here are saying), or "obsessed with the past" is not the answer. Nor is suggesting that there is a natural cycle of success and failure among clubs. Clubs have successful strategies or they don't - their standing holds or degrades over time but once you fall behind it's notoriously difficult to catch up.

We are facing self-inflicted decades without titles unless we change our strategy of buying only young players, which we won't because it's a model that privileges making money over absolute success on the pitch. Their talent will never be realised unless we put real leaders around them which we won't because it doesn't fit our failed strategy.

Again - I hope you realise that despite your admirable patience, what the majority of Chelsea fans think and feel matters.

If there is a big disconnect between the strategy and the fanbase we're going to continue to be at loggerheads. The fans will not change because they invest an incredible amount of time and money into our club and genuinely are intelligent enough to see what is working on the pitch and what is not. I think you should recognise that if the fans aren't happy, the patience project won't succeed either way - something has to give on the owners' side in terms of a change in direction.

[xceleryx]

15 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Thanks for sharing Celery.

1) "Nothing has really changed though Max for there to be any real sway either way in the overall project direction."

- Yes there has - we are now nearly two thirds of the way into the season and we are doing worse than the disaster under Potter. That is a lot of data you discount as "nothing" but most Chelsea fans count it as a disgrace.

2) "There's been positives and negatives as one would expect with a side that's been curated as it has"

- Again, that's a lazy cliché. There have been far more negatives than positives. "Curated" doesn't fit here - meaning "selected, organized, and presented using professional or expert knowledge." Clearly our squad has not been setup by experts as so many Chelsea fans are pointing the fingers at our our completely unqualified DoFs.

3) "I do believe we're in a better position than our standings in the league suggest."

- Well bravo to the board, then. We literally sold for the highest price ever paid for a sports team and we're in a better position than 11th? It's hard for the strategy to fail worse than this. We have overtaken Arsenal as the league's joke club and Chelsea fans are clever enough to look at the likes of Arsenal and Man United in recent years and recognise failed strategies that cost them decades without a title.

Calling Chelsea fans "irrational", "entitled" (as others on here are saying), or "obsessed with the past" is not the answer. Nor is suggesting that there is a natural cycle of success and failure among clubs. Clubs have successful strategies or they don't - their standing holds or degrades over time but once you fall behind it's notoriously difficult to catch up.

We are facing self-inflicted decades without titles unless we change our strategy of buying only young players, which we won't because it's a model that privileges making money over absolute success on the pitch. Their talent will never be realised unless we put real leaders around them which we won't because it doesn't fit our failed strategy.

Again - I hope you realise that despite your admirable patience, what the majority of Chelsea fans think and feel matters.

If there is a big disconnect between the strategy and the fanbase we're going to continue to be at loggerheads. The fans will not change because they invest an incredible amount of time and money into our club and genuinely are intelligent enough to see what is working on the pitch and what is not. I think you should recognise that if the fans aren't happy, the patience project won't succeed either way - something has to give on the owners' side in terms of a change in direction.

1) We're not worse than what we were under Potter if you take a step back and look at the larger picture. In fact, it's entirely pointless in trying to draw comparisons anyway. Potter had a seasoned team with plenty of experience and proven quantities, where as Poch is at the helm of the youngest team in the league that's only been together for the last 7-8 months. 

2) No lazier than attempting to pass a subjective statement as an absolute. In YOUR opinion there's been far more negatives, for others there's ability to also find and present plenty of positives. This will largely depend on what each persons expectations were going into the season. If you had higher expectations then naturally it's going to be easier to find more negatives, if you expected us to be in and around where we are then automatically the perspective of the situation changes. 

Again, "curated" is a perfectly valid choice of word. Just because there's complaints by some doesn't magically mean those who've made decisions are unqualified. This is a project, projects generally have phases, and we're still at the early part of that. We'll know more over the coming windows as we move into these next phases, as these will give us a clearer picture of what this team is going to truely look like. I, and others, although maybe not you, are content with the initial nucleus we've assembled. 

3) Honestly, I entirely unbothered by what others think or feel at this point in time. We're like 8 months in with the side as it is, it's going to take addition time to truly gauge where we're at and what the future holds. While the Chelsea name may have been synonymous with trophies over the last 20 years, football changes and this club has gone through something no other has had to navigate its way through. We're in a new era now, looking back at what was literally adds no value to the current cause. Carry that mentality for long enough and we'll end up looking like Liverpool clinging to their success of the 80's before they turned it around under Klopp. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

1) We're not worse than what we were under Potter if you take a step back and look at the larger picture. In fact, it's entirely pointless in trying to draw comparisons anyway. Potter had a seasoned team with plenty of experience and proven quantities, where as Poch is at the helm of the youngest team in the league that's only been together for the last 7-8 months. 

2) No lazier than attempting to pass a subjective statement as an absolute. In YOUR opinion there's been far more negatives, for others there's ability to also find and present plenty of positives. This will largely depend on what each persons expectations were going into the season. If you had higher expectations then naturally it's going to be easier to find more negatives, if you expected us to be in and around where we are then automatically the perspective of the situation changes. 

Again, "curated" is a perfectly valid choice of word. Just because there's complaints by some doesn't magically mean those who've made decisions are unqualified. This is a project, projects generally have phases, and we're still at the early part of that. We'll know more over the coming windows as we move into these next phases, as these will give us a clearer picture of what this team is going to truely look like. I, and others, although maybe not you, are content with the initial nucleus we've assembled. 

3) Honestly, I entirely unbothered by what others think or feel at this point in time. We're like 8 months in with the side as it is, it's going to take addition time to truly gauge where we're at and what the future holds. While the Chelsea name may have been synonymous with trophies over the last 20 years, football changes and this club has gone through something no other has had to navigate its way through. We're in a new era now, looking back at what was literally adds no value to the current cause. Carry that mentality for long enough and we'll end up looking like Liverpool clinging to their success of the 80's before they turned it around under Klopp. 

As much as I enjoy debating with you, it seems you will never shift position on these owners. I can understand now you think it's still early, but I also suspect if we forced them out after 8 years of finishing mid-table you would say, "with just a bit more patience it would have all come together, but we'll never know now"... These owners were my favourites to take over and I have supported them at various times through the regime. But as George Bernard Shaw said, "Those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."

1) I am surprised you enjoy watching football you move the goalposts so much. "Potter had a seasoned team with plenty of experience and proven quantities"? Come on. As bad as Poch's hand is, Potter's was worse. Unbelievably bloated dressing room, many players who wanted to leave, many brand new players who were shellshocked. And Poch is an experienced top-level manager unlike Potter, even if he is also a specialist in failure.

2) The numbers speak for themselves. I could put objective facts to you, but they won't make any odds anyway. 

3) I am shocked to hear you are unbothered about how many Chelsea fans are unhappy. I don't know if you are being honest or not - I suspect you are just trying to make a point. I've explained why framing the Chelsea fans as being "obsessed with the past" is completely unhelpful and untrue, yet you've gone ahead and given the most stereotypical strawman argument for why it's the case. Chelsea fans aren't looking back on the past thinking, "I wish things were the same as under Abramovich". They just know we are being run terribly and that we should be doing far better than the last two seasons. And that - unless there is a change of plan, which is not going to happen, this is going to continue for years to come.

Edited February 10 by Max Fowler

[east lower]

Project, smoject - Do the owner's have a plan, would be nice to know what the rudimentary plan is. Don't need to know the detail, just what we want to do with the team, where are we heading to I.e. World domination or mid-table mediocrity etc a d how long is this journey going to take. 

But they won't because they don't those themselves, they've lumbered us with a PL non-title/trophy winning manager, probably because he did an ok job at Southampton and won knob-all at Spuds, despite having probably the best striking duo operating at that time.

I'm not they understand what 'good' looks like.

Anyway,  the game on Monday night. Wonderful place to get to of a nighttime and get away from. Thanks Sky.

You'd think that with Palace's injuries this should be a game where our win chance percentage would be better than 50%, but God only knows what team and formation this ever so nice man but not so good coach will put out there for us. And then will the players decide it's an on or off day, to factor in.

Heart says win, positive side of brain says we won't lose, other side says there's no logic to this lot, we could well lose. 

[Dwmh]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

1) We're not worse than what we were under Potter if you take a step back and look at the larger picture. In fact, it's entirely pointless in trying to draw comparisons anyway. Potter had a seasoned team with plenty of experience and proven quantities, where as Poch is at the helm of the youngest team in the league that's only been together for the last 7-8 months. 

 

So worse then.  Much worse.

 

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I am surprised you enjoy watching football you move the goalposts so much.

🙂

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

As much as I enjoy debating with you, it seems you will never shift position on these owners. I can understand now you think it's still early, but I also suspect if we forced them out after 8 years of finishing mid-table you would say, "with just a bit more patience it would have all come together, but we'll never know now"... These owners were my favourites to take over and I have supported them at various times through the regime. But as George Bernard Shaw said, "Those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."

1) I am surprised you enjoy watching football you move the goalposts so much. "Potter had a seasoned team with plenty of experience and proven quantities"? Come on. As bad as Poch's hand is, Potter's was worse. Unbelievably bloated dressing room, many players who wanted to leave, many brand new players who were shellshocked. And Poch is an experienced top-level manager unlike Potter, even if he is also a specialist in failure.

2) The numbers speak for themselves. I could put objective facts to you, but they won't make any odds anyway. 

3) I am shocked to hear you are unbothered about how many Chelsea fans are unhappy. I don't know if you are being honest or not - I suspect you are just trying to make a point. I've explained why framing the Chelsea fans as being "obsessed with the past" is completely unhelpful and untrue, yet you've gone ahead and given the most stereotypical strawman argument for why it's the case. Chelsea fans aren't looking back on the past thinking, "I wish things were the same as under Abramovich". They just know we are being run terribly and that we should be doing far better than the last two seasons. And that - unless there is a change of plan, which is not going to happen, this is going to continue for years to come.

My thoughts on ownership will shift once there's been appropriate time to form proper judgement on what they're doing, seems a rather logical and measured approach to me. Certainly more conventional than being hyper critical of the short term, particularly if we're in a stronger position doing well in a few years time. This doesn't mean I agree with every decision that's been made to date either, I've expressed my displeasure on a couple of matters when it's been called for. 

1) Not sure how bringing up factual information constitutes as moving the goalposts. If you presented me with two choices between last season's performances and outcome, and what we've currently got going right now, it's not a particularly difficult choice to make. 

2) Then do it? There's also data that would showcase improvement had, so it works both ways. 

3) Why would I care about what others think surrounding such a subjective matter? I am being honest, I've no reason not to be. There's still a sizeable portion of the supporter base that are stuck in the past and still expect Chelsea to be as dominate as we were during our peak, despite there being large scale differences in the here and now. Not saying everyone has this mentality but it's also disingenuous to dismiss it altogether.

I can only speak for myself, but I've said from the beginning that I was prepared and expected us to go backwards before we went forwards. Why would I be critical when that's happened? I'd look pretty damn stupid throwing a hissy fit about the present if what's being undertaken turns out to be the catalyst for future success, no? The only way we'll get an accurate reading is by affording time and patience allowing room for the plan to unfold and develop. If in 3-4 years time we're still pissing about mid-table then of course my opinion will drastically change. I'm going to give it a bit more than 8 months however. 

[Rob B]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I can only speak for myself, but I've said from the beginning that I was prepared and expected us to go backwards before we went forwards. Why would I be critical when that's happened? I'd look pretty damn stupid throwing a hissy fit about the present if what's being undertaken turns out to be the catalyst for future success, no? The only way we'll get an accurate reading is by affording time and patience allowing room for the plan to unfold and develop. If in 3-4 years time we're still pissing about mid-table then of course my opinion will drastically change. I'm going to give it a bit more than 8 months however. 

Whilst I do agree with the general sentiment of your post, the 8 months you quote at the end is a bit of a red herring IMO.

The owners have been here since May 2022 which is almost 2 years ago now and that is when the judgement starts.  

For me,  they’ve made a pretty poor start overall.  Not horrendous as there has been some positives, but they’ve made a lot of mistakes also.   Big focus should be getting a DoF for the current SD’s (scouts) to be accountable to, and overhauling the Medical department so that we no longer consistently have the most injuries in the league. 

[xceleryx]

47 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Whilst I do agree with the general sentiment of your post, the 8 months you quote at the end is a bit of a red herring IMO.

The owners have been here since May 2022 which is almost 2 years ago now and that is when the judgement starts.  

For me,  they’ve made a pretty poor start overall.  Not horrendous as there has been some positives, but they’ve made a lot of mistakes also.   Big focus should be getting a DoF for the current SD’s (scouts) to be accountable to, and overhauling the Medical department so that we no longer consistently have the most injuries in the league. 

They have, but I say 8 months purely because that's how long this team we've constructed has largely been together. The first 12 months ownership were here was a bit of a mix between trying to plug gaps they inherited during a transfer window that had already opened, while having a side that was still largely built from prior years that underachieved and limped through the season. 

I sort of see it as being two seperate periods, which is why I don't like trying to compare last season to this one. 

And that's fair you see it that way, I agree it's not all been roses and mistakes have been made. 

[Max Fowler]

10 hours ago, xceleryx said:

My thoughts on ownership will shift once there's been appropriate time to form proper judgement on what they're doing, seems a rather logical and measured approach to me. Certainly more conventional than being hyper critical of the short term, particularly if we're in a stronger position doing well in a few years time. This doesn't mean I agree with every decision that's been made to date either, I've expressed my displeasure on a couple of matters when it's been called for. 

1) Not sure how bringing up factual information constitutes as moving the goalposts. If you presented me with two choices between last season's performances and outcome, and what we've currently got going right now, it's not a particularly difficult choice to make. 

2) Then do it? There's also data that would showcase improvement had, so it works both ways. 

3) Why would I care about what others think surrounding such a subjective matter? I am being honest, I've no reason not to be. There's still a sizeable portion of the supporter base that are stuck in the past and still expect Chelsea to be as dominate as we were during our peak, despite there being large scale differences in the here and now. Not saying everyone has this mentality but it's also disingenuous to dismiss it altogether.

I can only speak for myself, but I've said from the beginning that I was prepared and expected us to go backwards before we went forwards. Why would I be critical when that's happened? I'd look pretty damn stupid throwing a hissy fit about the present if what's being undertaken turns out to be the catalyst for future success, no? The only way we'll get an accurate reading is by affording time and patience allowing room for the plan to unfold and develop. If in 3-4 years time we're still pissing about mid-table then of course my opinion will drastically change. I'm going to give it a bit more than 8 months however. 

You won't even deal with the fact that we have less points than at this stage last season. Last season, which was a historic failure for our club. You don't care about the fact that just 1.8% of Chelsea fans think the club is being run very well. So there's no point in going deeper into running stats etc.

Frankly, it makes me sad to see Chelsea fans being labeled as entitled, obsessed with the past and implied words like "hissy fit" being used against us. Most serious Chelsea fans actually understand the game of football much more deeply than those in charge of our club - we recognize the obvious faults with our team that are not being addressed and will lead to ongoing systemic failure.

The owners weren't expecting this kind of fan reaction - but they should take it on board and adjust the strategy accordingly. Okay, they don't need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but a few experienced players and characters we can identify with are badly needed. Integrating players like Connor who care and fight for the badge - unique qualities that won't show up in data models.

But they won't do it. They won't buy experience in summer, and Gallagher and Silva look set to be going. Therefore the cycle with continue - our young talents will never reach their potential in a squad without leaders to show them the way. We can have the best of both worlds. Young, emerging talent and a squad that competes at the top of the league. But not with this current "project".

You should care about what fans think because it will massively influence the success of this "project". Like we saw with Potter, if the fans aren't on board, the "project" will fail. The answer isn't to criticise the fans. The answer is to criticise the owners for failing to understand what club they have taken over, what business they are in, and fight for change so we can all move forward together.

Edited February 11 by Max Fowler