Chelsea 4 Manchester United 3

[Mark Kelly]

We play football like we're playing free form Jazz based football, there are some melodious parts but more often than not it's a cacophony. 

Pochettino appears to be doing nothing whatsoever on the training pitch with regards to any organisation or structure or method to how we are to be set up. 

And I don't think it's helping anyone. 

We are better than he is making us look 

Our players are better at their jobs than he is making them look. 

Maybe this is how he works, gets them used to playing together and finding their feet as a team and the organisation and method starts next season. 

I'm sure thats what he's telling the top brass. 

 

 

[asvaberg]

30 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

The midfield isn't as much of a conundrum as some think.

Perhaps we could not play 442 with Enzo and Caicedo as a pair?

What if we played Gallagher in his best position and stop playing as a second striker? Having him running around like a headless chicken upfront as the sole press is embarrassing.

Maybe, if he insists with this ridiculous set up, the full backs could tuck in and help the midfield pair, instead of just bombing up and down the flanks leaving the whole team completely exposed.

Who knows if the full backs played, even slightly more disciplined it may help out the two centre half's?

Would it not make sense to, I don't know maybe try Madueke out wide with Palmer as the second striker/10 and Gallagher playing as an actual midfielder?

For all Plamers brilliance his defensive work isn't the best. Madueke is much better defensively and Mudryk is very, very good at this side of the game.

So slightly less gung ho full backs, Gallagher playing deeper, Palmer supporting Jackson with Mudryk and Madueke out wide and suddenly we are a completely different team.

It's really not that difficult.

 

So this will be our ideal lineup with current available players? 4-1-1-2-2 ? (Assuming Chilwell is fit for next game)

                        Petrovic

   Gusto/Silva/Cucu/Chilwell

                      Gallagher

                          Enzo 

Madueke                        Mudryk

               Palmer/ Jackson

[east lower]

35 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

For all Plamers brilliance his defensive work isn't the best. Madueke is much better defensively and Mudryk is very, very good at this side of the game.

Mudryk is the better defensive option definitely………………………..but Madueke should be banned from his own half. He’s genuinely a liability back there.

Stay up in the opposition half Noni, you’re occasionally quite dangerous up that end.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

We have just got to drop Caicedo . Can anyone point to a performance that justifies that price tag . He’s a weak link imo. I’m not sure mentally he’s tough enough. We have Italian Casadei who is a great prospect just sitting there doing nothing. Enzo needs a different partner. 

Can't really drop Caicedo with our current midfield shortage. Casadei isn't a defensive minded player, he's more of an #8 that likes to get forward and arrive into the box. That's not even taking into account playing Enzo and Casadei together would be a pretty slow pairing. 

The ideal solution is to find ourselves a more defensively minded midfielder that can sit behind or partner both/either Enzo and Caicedo. Lavia would've been an option had he been fit, similar with Ugo.

Not that any of this would've made amends for a straight up awful piece of decision making and passing execution.

[NoblyBobly]

6 minutes ago, asvaberg said:

So this will be our ideal lineup with current available players? 4-1-1-2-2 ? (Assuming Chilwell is fit for next game)

                        Petrovic

   Gusto/Silva/Cucu/Chilwell

                      Gallagher

                          Enzo 

Madueke                        Mudryk

               Palmer/ Jackson

Not sure I’m over happy with cucu at CB but I could live with that especially the dropping of Caicedo. I’m 100% sure that’s not what Poch will put out though. 

[NoblyBobly]

1 minute ago, xceleryx said:

Can't really drop Caicedo with our current midfield shortage. Casadei isn't a defensive minded player, he's more of an #8 that likes to get forward and arrive into the box. That's not even taking into account playing Enzo and Casadei together would be a pretty slow pairing. 

The ideal solution is to find ourselves a more defensively minded midfielder that can sit behind or partner both/either Enzo and Caicedo. Lavia would've been an option had he been fit, similar with Ugo.

Not that any of this would've made amends for a straight up awful piece of decision making and passing execution.

I admit to not even seeing or remembering Casadei play ( he was on loan to Leicester I think) but from what I read , he is a defence minded midfielder who is big ( 6’2) and surprisingly mobile. A prospect by all accounts. That is just what we want imo because those two midgets in the middle  aren’t cutting the mustard. 
I would drop Caicedo on the basis that he’s playing shite and giving away goals. 

[xceleryx]

52 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

The midfield isn't as much of a conundrum as some think.

Perhaps we could not play 442 with Enzo and Caicedo as a pair?

What if we played Gallagher in his best position and stop playing as a second striker? Having him running around like a headless chicken upfront as the sole press is embarrassing.

Maybe, if he insists with this ridiculous set up, the full backs could tuck in and help the midfield pair, instead of just bombing up and down the flanks leaving the whole team completely exposed.

Who knows if the full backs played, even slightly more disciplined it may help out the two centre half's?

Would it not make sense to, I don't know maybe try Madueke out wide with Palmer as the second striker/10 and Gallagher playing as an actual midfielder?

For all Plamers brilliance his defensive work isn't the best. Madueke is much better defensively and Mudryk is very, very good at this side of the game.

So slightly less gung ho full backs, Gallagher playing deeper, Palmer supporting Jackson with Mudryk and Madueke out wide and suddenly we are a completely different team.

It's really not that difficult.

Gallagher is going to press and chase regardless of where he plays in fairness, that's just the type of player he is and if you try and remove that from his game he becomes less of a player. In ways it would be like trying to have curbed Kante and demand he played more disciplined like Makelele or Mikel. 

Palmer through the middle hasn't really worked all too well when it has been tried, he's looks more comfortable out on that right hand side where he links well with Gusto and has the whole pitch to cut back towards while remaining on his stronger foot. He's a tricky one from a positional sense,  similar to Ziyech in ways, as he's a wide attacking midfielder more than an out and out winger or #10. Plus, playing Palmer through the middle probably hinders Mudryk negatively as well, someone who is also now looking more comfortable and having dangerous moments. 

Madueke is cheeks defensively IMO and doesn't command a starting position ahead of either Palmer or Mudryk at present. 

[paulw66]

Football.

Bloody hell 

[xceleryx]

2 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I admit to not even seeing or remembering Casadei play ( he was on loan to Leicester I think) but from what I read , he is a defence minded midfielder who is big ( 6’2) and surprisingly mobile. A prospect by all accounts. That is just what we want imo because those two midgets in the middle  aren’t cutting the mustard. 
I would drop Caicedo on the basis that he’s playing shite and giving away goals. 

Definitely isn't a defensive minded midfielder, he came up through Inter's Primavera side as a more rounded player that excelled physically and technically in a general central or attacking role. That's also been the case when he's been with the Italian youth sides. 

Andrey Santos however is more what you've described from a position sense, maybe getting the two mixed up? 

Either way, would be a big call to drop Caicedo at this point with it certainly arguable it would make us weaker overall. 

[chiswickblue]

8 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I admit to not even seeing or remembering Casadei play ( he was on loan to Leicester I think) but from what I read , he is a defence minded midfielder who is big ( 6’2) and surprisingly mobile. A prospect by all accounts. That is just what we want imo because those two midgets in the middle  aren’t cutting the mustard. 
I would drop Caicedo on the basis that he’s playing shite and giving away goals. 

From what I've seen of him, I'd call him the Italian McTominay - a big lump that gets forward well and can score goals, but lacks a bit of finesse on the floor.

[boratsbrother]

40 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

We play football like we're playing free form Jazz based football, there are some melodious parts but more often than not it's a cacophony. 

Pochettino appears to be doing nothing whatsoever on the training pitch with regards to any organisation or structure or method to how we are to be set up. 

And I don't think it's helping anyone. 

We are better than he is making us look 

Our players are better at their jobs than he is making them look. 

Maybe this is how he works, gets them used to playing together and finding their feet as a team and the organisation and method starts next season. 

I'm sure thats what he's telling the top brass. 

 

 

I think it's actually more to do with individual players making horrendous mistakes which is making Poch look worse than he is.  Last night we had another clanger from the appallingly bad Caicedo.  Petrovich should have stayed on his line for their second.  Jackson had another very poor game. Sterling was terrible when he came on. Badiashile goes from bad to worse. I thought the rest of them played well.

 

I can also see a method in this current madness - we can't defend to save our lives so it has to be gung ho football trying to outscore the opposition.  

 

 

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, east lower said:

Mudryk is the better defensive option definitely………………………..but Madueke should be banned from his own half. He’s genuinely a liability back there.

Stay up in the opposition half Noni, you’re occasionally quite dangerous up that end.

Still, I think he's better at pressing than Palmer and works harder off the ball.

It's not a criticism of Plamer, I don't want my superstar attacking player being dragged all over the pitch defensively and knackering himself out but you have to do your bit playing out wide, especially with such crazy attacking full backs.

It's also as much about getting Gallagher playing deeper. Genuinely what is the point in him playing so high up the pitch and being the sole press? 

If not Madueke out wide I'd like to see Chukwuemeka as the 10, with Gallagher deeper and less gung-ho full backs.

 

[paulw66]

11 hours ago, Bison said:

Cucurella should not be allowed to sign Palmer's match ball. 

He won the penalty for his first goal.

Of all the chaos of last night, I don't think he was the biggest problem by any stretch. 

 

[blueboy1905]

Anyone think that Petrovic dropped a clanger in consecutive games for Man Utd's third goal. Horribly out of position and stood in no man's land.

Edited April 5 by blueboy1905

[paulw66]

11 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Anyone think that Petrovic dropped a clanger in consecutive games for Man Utd's third goal. Horribly out of position and stood in no man's land.

Yes. It was a great cross, but he heads it from the penalty spot. If he stays on his line, it's an easy save.

[paulw66]

34 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Still, I think he's better at pressing than Palmer and works harder off the ball.

It's not a criticism of Plamer, I don't want my superstar attacking player being dragged all over the pitch defensively and knackering himself out but you have to do your bit playing out wide, especially with such crazy attacking full backs.

It's also as much about getting Gallagher playing deeper. Genuinely what is the point in him playing so high up the pitch and being the sole press? 

If not Madueke out wide I'd like to see Chukwuemeka as the 10, with Gallagher deeper and less gung-ho full backs.

 

Gallagher in the 10 is a waste. He should be rotating with Caicedo and Enzo in the double pivot.

The 3 attackers behind Jackson then come from Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke, Chuk and Palmer.  

We'd get far more from Gallagher covering the ground in front of the back 4. 

[Thiago97]

We can't seriously be talking about dropping Caicedo for one key mistake and average performance. Have people not been watching the last 10-15 games, cos whilst he has been treading a fine line for a sending off, he has also been one of our better players since the turn of the year. It was a terrible mistake, but these things happen . I am sure he will learn from it.

He most definitely needs to play. We are lite on options and he is one of a very few players we have, who offers up any physical resistance.

The reality is that he is not, nor ever has been, a £100m player. The whole league overreacted to short term hype again. That don't mean that he is not a very useful player for us, cos he most definitely is. We cannot afford to not be playing key players like Caicedo, when we continue to be as porous as we are right now.

We have 4-5 nailed on starters at present. Jackson, Palmer, Gusto, Caicedo and Gallagher......the remaining places in the team to be filled from other options. This is part of the problem really, cos ideally you want 8-9 nailed on starters with 2-3 roles max up for grabs most games. We are some way off this.

 

[Max Fowler]

I have to be honest, I feel a little bit sick still after last night. To say it was a "great feeling" at the end - I dunno. It was shocking, it was hilarious to see United lose, and there was a sense of "get in there" as Palmer just lumped it in. 

As much as it was great to see the Chelsea fans happy, I believe many of them know how bad we were. That second half was dreadful. And yet we celebrate winning. 

They deserve to have those moments together in the stands. But the emotional ride you go through - it wasn't a particularly good feeling honestly.

There are games that have ups and downs but I don't think we controlled it at all - in a lot of ways it was two teams as bad as each other with some talent thrown in.

Still, one thing is that our games are better for the neutral than ever before. Year after year of grinding out results under Jose and many of our games are just a madness these days. But yesterday? Gee.

[east lower]

20 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Anyone think that Petrovic dropped a clanger in consecutive games for Man Utd's third goal. Horribly out of position and stood in no man's land.

More worried by the error made by Badiashile that led to them breaking on our right for that one. Caicedo’s brain fart mistake for their first and that Man Utd and quite a few other teams looking more dangerous to us at our own attacking corners - If I were critiquing the team.

🙂
 

Edited April 5 by east lower

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

We have 4-5 nailed on starters at present. Jackson, Palmer, Gusto, Caicedo and Gallagher......the remaining places in the team to be filled from other options. This is part of the problem really, cos ideally you want 8-9 nailed on starters with 2-3 roles max up for grabs most games. We are some way off this.

I totally agree with that.

We can't forget Liverpool bid 111 million for Caicedo as well. In some ways it was the market (that we helped create) as much as us massively overpaying for a player (i.e. Cucurella)

Caicedo is genuinely showing about half of what he is capable of and still one of our better performers.

[Max Fowler]

20 minutes ago, blueboy1905 said:

Anyone think that Petrovic dropped a clanger in consecutive games for Man Utd's third goal. Horribly out of position and stood in no man's land.

I do feel Petrovic has lost some of that aura although he had a lot of good will in the bank after an incredible start. I am willing to try him out for next season and would rather focus on upgrading the CB and left back options...

[Bones]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

The midfield isn't as much of a conundrum as some think.

Perhaps we could not play 442 with Enzo and Caicedo as a pair?

What if we played Gallagher in his best position and stop playing as a second striker? Having him running around like a headless chicken upfront as the sole press is embarrassing.

Maybe, if he insists with this ridiculous set up, the full backs could tuck in and help the midfield pair, instead of just bombing up and down the flanks leaving the whole team completely exposed.

Who knows if the full backs played, even slightly more disciplined it may help out the two centre half's?

Would it not make sense to, I don't know maybe try Madueke out wide with Palmer as the second striker/10 and Gallagher playing as an actual midfielder?

For all Plamers brilliance his defensive work isn't the best. Madueke is much better defensively and Mudryk is very, very good at this side of the game.

So slightly less gung ho full backs, Gallagher playing deeper, Palmer supporting Jackson with Mudryk and Madueke out wide and suddenly we are a completely different team.

It's really not that difficult.

 

10000000% exactly my thoughts tactically.

All o f the 3 goals we condeded was because there was a mess up with Full Backs. Yes, Caicedo is 100% at fault, but just tactically we has in LB position in the middle of park. Second goal it completely came from Cucurella and Gusto missing in the wide areas, third goal too, cross from wide area not prevented.

Absolutely spot on with Gallagher too - he is great, but is doing too much headless chicken runs playing as second striker.

Your suggestions just seem to be simple and should be effective.

[martin1905]

15 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Gallagher in the 10 is a waste. He should be rotating with Caicedo and Enzo in the double pivot.

The 3 attackers behind Jackson then come from Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke, Chuk and Palmer.  

We'd get far more from Gallagher covering the ground in front of the back 4. 

Absolutely agree with all of this.

Gallagher as a 10 would make some sense if the whole front line pressed as a unit, and by that I don't mean all 4 players pressing at the same time but when he is the sole press its utterly pointless.

It leaves the midfield two woefully isolated.

This can be negated some what if your full backs tuck in and help out but no they have no positional discipline whatsoever. Quite cleary they are instructed to just run and run.

All this leaves our two centre backs completely and utterly exposed. 

It's really embarrassing to watch on a weekly basis.

Edited April 5 by martin1905

[ROTG]

59 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

He won the penalty for his first goal.

Of all the chaos of last night, I don't think he was the biggest problem by any stretch. 

 

It the hair cut that makes him stand out like a sore thumb, especially when he’s caught flat footed or out of position. A Short back and sides would help him blend in and stop being so easily identified .

Alternatively if he puts a couple of blue and white streaks through his hair he can become invisible 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Gallagher is going to press and chase regardless of where he plays in fairness, that's just the type of player he is and if you try and remove that from his game he becomes less of a player. In ways it would be like trying to have curbed Kante and demand he played more disciplined like Makelele or Mikel. 

All well and good but running around like a headless chicken whilst you leave the midfield two completely isolated is madness, especially when the midfield two have licence to get forward. 

He's far more combative than Enzo and has much more energy so him and Caicedo together would at least give us a much more balanced midfield two.

You dont have to have a player like Mikel or Makelele, i mean we just haven't so we have  to make the best of what we have and that is just not happening.

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Palmer through the middle hasn't really worked all too well when it has been tried, he's looks more comfortable out on that right hand side where he links well with Gusto and has the whole pitch to cut back towards while remaining on his stronger foot. He's a tricky one from a positional sense,  similar to Ziyech in ways, as he's a wide attacking midfielder more than an out and out winger or #10. Plus, playing Palmer through the middle probably hinders Mudryk negatively as well, someone who is also now looking more comfortable and having dangerous moments. 

Palmer is no doubt better out wide, I'm not disputing that just that his work off the ball is poor and when you have such attacking full backs your wide playes absolutely have to be better off the ball than Palmer is.

None of this is a criticism of him, its the tactics.

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Madueke is cheeks defensively IMO and doesn't command a starting position ahead of either Palmer or Mudryk at present. 

No, he absolutely shouldn't be starting above either, he should be starting with them. His pressing and work rate is levels above Palmer. Or play Sterling there. You just can't play Palmer there with Gusto constantly overlapping and have a midfield two of Enzo and Caicedo who are both allowed to get forward and your number 10 just runs around chasing the opposition centre half's. It's suicidal amd we are literally seeing it unfold right infront of us.

It's not about Palmer's best position or Gallagher, it's about making the most of what we have and we are so easy to play against.  We concede 2 goals a game and everyone thinks its because the centre half's aren't good enough but it's much more than that.